SWAT open fire

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DevLcL

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This video may or may not have been discussed but I couldn't find any information in a search.

Video link to YouTube.

The video may be old but I just recently came across it. I'm not starting this thread to flame the police in any way but that was just sloppy. I can't say I'd do any better if it were me. The one thing that particularly got to me was how the SWAT officers fired into the car with other officers (and the cameraman) directly on the other side. The commenting officer in the video says that its hard to penetrate cars with their bullets but I bet a few made it through. I guess in the moment it was a hard call and nobody got hurt except the bad guy (as far as I know) so all is well that ends well. I'm sure they'll use this as learning tool.

-Dev
 
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Car's deadlier than any gun. Look at the statistics.

Now, what got ME is how the host gets a shotgun (does that look like a pump with the action open to anybody else?). Super Troopers, anyone?

"hey, chief, can I get a, a gun here?"
"rabbit! get the man a gun!"
(catches gun) "POUR IT ON!!"
 
Take a 2nd look at the forearm on the 870. It's all the way up to the nut that holds the barrel onto the frame. The action is closed. :what:
 
Watch the SWAT team on the far side open up with what may be a 223 rifle....that'll go through the car and a vest.
 
Someone want to tell me what value this has to S&T? What specific questions are there?

We know that tunnel vision is a problem when we're under threat. It seems these officers put themselves and their fellows at rist by having so many angles of fire converging on the vehicle in their midst, but in a self defense incident how will we face this problem?
 
hso - how many shots were fired?

only one hit the criminal not even injurying him enough to be totally stopped.

methinks something wasn't done right.

now the problem is - I'm no LEO - so it's up to the LEO's here to say what.
 
It'll have little value if we turn it into a SWAT bash thread, and I'll lock it if that happens.

This has little value as a tool for the average armed citizen. We don't send in teams to apprehend people. We generally avoid threats.


Those officers did the best they could with a car speeding at them. It was by good fortune no one got ran over, or hit by crossfire. Not just them, but the folks living in the neighborhood, too. It was a situation all gone to hell, and they did their best to end it.

Since SWAT doesn't come here to discuss tactics, I have to wonder how much value this has to discuss it here?
 
By all means remove the thread if it isn't suitable for S&T. I figured the idea of this 'tunnel vision', as some have put it, was worth discussion becuase we are often among innocent bystanders no matter where we are. I suppose you can't always be worried about nearby buildings because then you might as well not carry. I just don't know exactly what to make of it. I know this isn't a new issue. Like I said, delete if unsuitable.
 
Wasn't trying to bash SWAT.

Just was saying, something obviously went wrong.... what?
 
TheEconomist said: Just was saying, something obviously went wrong.... what?
Click to expand...

Other than the arrest, and the perimeter containment, and letting him get/stay behind the wheel, and not taking out the vehicle by blocking it or otherwise disabling it . . . .

Again, all SWAT/Officer tactics. Not really appropriate for the Armed Citizen.


DevLcl,

This isn't really so much an example of tunnel vision, as it is one when the SWAT Team let their subject get out of their perimeter and blow their plan completely. Had he been on foot, and unarmed, they could have dealt with him by giving chase. He was barreling down directly on them in a big, steel car. I won't delete it, but I'm not sure how much value it has for us.
 
Wow, what a great video, i liked it. It seems that they did not handled the situation as SWAT, but I would hat open fired too. Why they did not fired on the tires? I do think myself that they could had shoot some other officer in the process, but im not SWAT so i guess they did what they did and got lucky. As for the bullet and car, that is true somehow, i remember someone shooting at my car some years ago, and it only went trough one window, the bullet actually then dropped inside the car not breaking the front window. But it wasnt so close like in the video it was like 50 meters away or so.
 
Even though that seemed to be a fairly chaotic situation the SWAT officers did seem to be a bit disorganized. The one officer they interview states that its actually difficult to get a round to go through a car, maybe he was refering to the deflection of rounds when passing through winshields, etc. but even a 9mm will punch through a door, someone else already covered the .223

This video could serve to illustrate the problems and dangers of tunnel vision. You can see the one officer near the camera try to duck behind the parked car when the other officers open fire.
 
:mad: O GOD do I hate that anouncer. Its like the BATFE hired him for propaganda. "THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU GO AGAINST THE GOVERMENT!"
 
This is all I could see,

Across the street you have a group of guys all shooting, the guy in the foreground jumps behind the car asap, was he expecting a few stray rounds?
 
No Plan Survives Contact

That is the lesson that you can take from this. Whenever you go up against a human opponent, there is a big probability that your opponent may not react to your stimulus the way you expected him to. Someone once said; "Professionals are predictable, it's the amatures I worry about."

The officers had a plan, something went wrong and they solved the problem. I'm sure they conducted a detailed AAR and any necessary changes were made in their SOPs.

I got tangled up with a suspect who we didn't know was in the house on an entry one time. He was sleeping on a couch that we knew from our CI was pulled across the door I entered from. I hit the door hard enough to move the couch out of the way, stepped over the back of the couch and came down right on top of the groggy suspect who was now halfway on the couch and halfway on the floor. There was no way I could perform th rest of my mission, I had to deal with the suspect. The rest of the team moved past us and secured the remainder of the house. These things seldom go as planned.

Jeff
 
What else can we take away from this in a Self Defense sense and not as SWAT Posers?

A lot of shots were fired at the vehicle by professionals trained in firearms use and yet the criminal at the wheel only received a single gunshot wound to the arm.

Don't try to stop someone in a vehicle with a handgun like you see in the movies and TV! Even with a "hail of bullets" the BG was only hit once. If someone is pointing a loaded Suburban at you don't stand in the street with your defensive firearm thinking you'll put one round through the windshield into his forhead and stop the vehicle dead in it's tracks. You're about to die of Firestone Disease as the vehicle drives over you or knockes you into the air. Remember 427 cubic inches trumps your .357!
 
If someone is pointing a loaded Suburban at you don't stand in the street with your defensive firearm thinking you'll put one round through the windshield into his forhead and stop the vehicle dead in it's tracks.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, if you look as the suburban rolls to a stop before the perp guns it, the driver is wedged way down in the car to make a small target for incoming fire. I imagine that makes it hard to see where you're going.. As much as this sounds like suppressive fire, perhaps it would be of use to loose a round or two at an approaching car right before you make like travolta and boogie to cover your escape?

It also marks up their car for future identification, that is assuming you don't leave a big enough mark yourself :D
 
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