"Tactical" Automobile?

[bokchoi]

As much as I hate using the word "tactical", it seems the only word that fits the context I'm using it in.

Ok, so after watching too many movies and spending too long looking for a decent car to replace my guzzler, it just occurred to me that driving a manual transmission may be a disadvantage in a situation in which a free hand is needed while the car is still moving, for either dialing 911, or more importantly, providing return fire.

(I am not overly experienced in driving manual nor do I drive a manual transmission car; I drive an automatic and extremely thirsty Toyota SUV, but I'm considering trading it in for a manual econobox)

But why stop there? What would you consider to be important points to have in a "tactical" automobile that is still suitable for everyday driving?


I would consider, in no particular order:

1. Manueverability / Performance: The car has to be able to leave or arrive at a given location with some vigor, especially within the city. This also means that a car should be able to accelerate and take corners pretty hard, something where SUVs run into problems.

2. Ground clearance / Traction / Articulation: The car should be able to reasonably overcome unusual road conditions, including gravel roads, winter conditions and ice, or possibly driving over curbs at low speeds. This is where non-SUVs have problems.

3. Fuel economy: The car should be able to go for a relatively long distance on its own fuel tank, and should not be overly expensive to refuel; 100 kilometers difference between an economy car and SUV can make a big difference, and storing fuel onboard in containers is not always practical or safe.

4. Passenger capacity / accessibility: Passengers should be able to board/alight the vehicle quickly and easily in case of emergency. Coupes need not apply.

5. Storage capacity: Room for the toys, ammo, and supplies. A lockable trunk is a bonus in some cases (I used to always lock the trunk from the inside of the car in my Civic)

6. Reliability: The car needs to work when you need it, and should be somewhat forgiving if you cannot meet an oil change appointment right away. Also, it shouldn't require anything overly special or costly to repair if anything breaks down.

7. Safety: The car needs to protect its occupants to a reasonable degree in the event of a collision. This also ties in a bit with no.1, as SUVs tend to be more likely to be in a rollover type of accident.

8. Everyday practicality: Probably the most important part, the car should be driveable as an everyday car that is available when needed.


Any fancy ideas regarding this? I was thinking that cars like the Volvo SUV/Wagons or Subaru's quasi-SUVs would be a good idea, though an economy car like a Toyota Camry or Honda Civic would have its place among everything.

And yes, I'm trying to decide upon a new car.


Edit: Also, just to keep this post more firearms-related, is manual transmission a good idea if the possibility exists that you will need to draw while driving?

 

[Josey]

Dude! Where's my car!? Chrysler 300C with a Hemi is the new "Black Beauty". I am thinking that a BMW Mini has a LOT of potential though. Think Bourne Identity chase. AFAIK, the trend is toward hybrid gas/electric. Toyota has some good choices.

 

[grimlock]

Subaru Forester XT automatic sounds good for you.
All wheel drive, great clearance, 250hp, better mileage than most SUVs, worse than most Japanese sedans.
Give it a try.

 

[Norton]

Maybe not a tactical vehicle, but perhaps a strategic one......we have a 1992 Honda Accord that we keep around as our "urban assault vehicle". Just enough dings and scratches to let it blend into the background so that it won't attract undo attention from car thieves and assorted bad guys. It's incredibly sound mechanically despite over 300,000 miles on it.

Plus it's stick shift so it's less likely a target for thieves while parked.

I would think that one of the "car-based" SUVs may meet your needs....CRV, Liberty, etc get good mileage relative to their big brothers and are roomy enough to hold all of your gear.

OTOH, those Subaru and Volvo wagons are pretty nice rides and would still have those tactical qualities that you were looking for while having a little more creature comfort.

 

[Ryder]

Sounds like you're describing my caddy. I was busting 3-4' snow drifts last winter on one 300 mile jaunt and the traction control works on ice. A full tank gives me a 400-500 mile range. That Norstar 32 valve really motorvates! Stealthy too, cops haven't paid me much attention.

I haven't jumped any curbs with it but I do know it handles good enough to avoid certain death when the brakes blow out approaching a stop sign.

 

[mfree]

I have a 1991 dodge shadow that's been stripped... it's on it's way to being an SCCA race car. But, for now all the suspension is stock... and I've removed about 350-400 pounds of interior and junk; and the engine is still the stock 2.2 TBI with a 5 speed.

It's the perfect bug-out vehicle as it sits right now. Why?

1. The engine is dead-simple, a trained monkey could fix it.. and it's reliable enough so that wouldn't happen. Chrysler even had the foresight to double-layer the oil pan so it's penetration resistant.
2. When I lightened it, the suspension raised up a good inch and a half above what was already pretty tall. I'm a big guy, and I can nearly crawl under the car. It's probably got as much ground clearance as a small 2wd truck, and it's FWD with most of the weight on the driven wheels.
3. No interior to catch fire under fire.
4. decent mileage, even in it's tired state of tune (110K miles of severe abuse)
5. Lots of storage space... it's a 4 door hatch. The hatch is also shaped like a trunk so it's a simple matter to keep things hidden.
6. Steel wheels and a suspension built like a tank. The front control arms are 1.5" thick cast steel. Steel wheels will bend on impact rather than cracking and/or breaking like aluminum.
7. tried and tested I've taken the car autocrossing and ralycrossing, and the only result were a couple dents in the floorpan and a dirt shower when I buried the K-frame after a "jump" and pushed a load of loose dirt past the steering column seal. It's trippy to get showered with dirt sitting in a car with the windows shut

piccies at http://posterboard.tv/shadow/

 

[TarpleyG]

Definately looking at a Subaru of some variety...

check this--http://www.subaru.com/servlet/showroom?model=OUTBACK&trim=30_R_VDC_LTD_WAGON&command=overview

 

[buy guns]

i would prefer a euro car that can sustain high periods of speed for a long time. something like a porsche 928 or cayenne turbo, bmw m5, etc.

 

[mfree]

Dunno, I kinda like that I took my dodge out, drove 90 miles at 65 miles an hour, bounded around a decidedly NOT flat field for an equivalent couple miles at ~30mph, and then drove 90 miles home at 65mph

At one time I also drove the car at highway speeds for around 40 miles with a big gaping hole in the #4 cylinder head gasket; I had to stop every other exit to let the cylinder pressure bleed from the radiator. The car at one time also sucked in a bolt/nut/something hard in that same cylinder and bounced it around for 5 minutes before passing it out the exhaust... and not damaging anything. (not related, the two above happened ~25,000 miles apart).

I've set the car on fire once, and by that I mean a good 3' flaming gasoline and oil fire under the hood. It's been run down to a quart of oil twice accidentally. It's lived through 2 10mph bumper bounces without damage. I used to use it to shove other cars around the driveway since it's too graded to push them around by hand. After all that, I hopped in it and took it for a 35 hour run from atlanta to tampa and back to knoxville. One time, i was running on one disc brake.... the rear brakes had chewed their seals up and the passenger side disc was covered in oil. The thermostat housing is missing a corner and is epoxied in place.

What's my point?

*The car won't die*. any ne of the above incidents would have laid out a modern car. The damn thing just won't quit... it's never left me stranded, *ever*. If I were home, i could walk out to the driveway and fire it right up on the first crank. It's never been incapable of sustaining highway speeds, and I can run around/over/through terrain if I need. Never, ever totally fails. And everything that's ever needed repairing was done with simple hand tools and cheap, abundant parts.

That's about as tactical as I can think of. Plus, it was $1200 when i bought it

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, maybe so, but that doesn't help bokchoi, who specifically said that he wants great gas mileage, low cost, reliability. . . . a Porsche is not going to give him those things.

The ONLY downside I see to something like the new Subaru Forester for Bokchoi's situation is the repair cost and the relative complexity of the AWD and the engine. On the other hand, many Subaru engines are aircraft-rated, so the reliability should be there. On the other other hand, George Hill destroyed his by taking two matching electrical plugs on the top of the engine, neither of which had any other mate, and plugging them together. Fried the whole electrical system, apparently.
I don't know how you explain that except a deliberate trap set by gleeful Subaru Gremlins.

I hate to do it, but I need more space, and I think it's going to come to a Tactical Minivan soon. We have two boys and two dogs we pretty regularly pack up and take 4 hours north, and we're just not quite making it. We have a large Buick Park Avenue, and I had an old Cadillac Sedan Deville that I dearly loved before that. With just the kids, we can make the drive just fine in those, but with the dogs, we end up with big dogs on small laps. We've borrowed dad's extended cab pickup the last couple of trips, and that worked well, but I don't want to pay for one nor for the gas. I've got my old beater 4WD fullsize for when I need that, just no extended cab.

The final insult is that to keep my wife from selling her Camaro when we get the van, I think I'm going to have to be the one to drive the minivan every day. But I can't imagine selling the Camaro. We wouldn't get anything for it right now since it's a '95, and in 20 years we'd be kicking ourselves. I've already sold an '82 Mustang, a '77 Bronco, and dad sold a '57 Chevy, a '66 Impala, a '65 Mustang, a '68 Bronco, and the one that still kills him, a '59 Corvette with a wild 327. I just don't think I could stand not to have that Camaro to play with when I get old.

mfree, don't sell that car, ever! Coming from Chrysler, that's one in a billion!

 

[W Turner]

Sounds like a Jeep Liberty in diesel (supposed to be released late this year/early next year) would be great. Another to consider is a Honda CRV/Element. I am 6'8" and comfortable in our 1997 Honda CRV. It has 156K miles on it, the AWD system is great and I can drive it anywhere.


W

 

[mfree]

actually Don Gwinn, you have a winner if you can find these following things from Chrysler:

FWD
2.2 or 2.5 SOHC engine with TBI fuel injection
5 speed manual transmission or 3 speed automatic *NO 4 SPEED AUTO*
minimal options

Find that, and you've got a vehicle that'll run *forever* and do it on the cheap. That covers shadows, late Aries, daytonas, early voyagers/caravans, lots of options.

EDIT: lemme tack something on. It's GOT to be TBI. No carbs (they used holley 5200/6200s, not easy or simple to work on) and no turbos (nice, reliable, not good for SHTF because they're liability points and complicate things). The TBI has *one* fuel injector, minimal parts, minimal sensors, and the computer codes can be read by flipping the key on and off 3 times and reading the check engine light. No diagnosis tools needed

 

[sanchezero]

 

[Ian]

All those requirements sound like my Subaru Legacy wagon.

1. Manueverability / Performance: It's not a sports car, but it has a good turning radius and isn't going to roll over, ever. I've done 70-75 mph for 17 hours straight (not counting occasional gas stops) without any problems whatsoever.

2. Ground clearance / Traction / Articulation: Has all-wheel drive, and has been used on numerous dirt and gravel roads without problems, including some good steep hills while heavily loaded. Ground clearance could be better, though.

3. Fuel economy: Has a 14 gallon tank (I think), and mine gets 30 mpg highway despite having 166k miles on it.

4. Passenger capacity / accessibility: 4-door, seats 5.

5. Storage capacity: Mine is a wagon, so it doesn't have a trunk. It does have lots of storage space in the back, though. The rear seat fold forward, making a platform just long enough to sleep in stretched out (or to hold more stuff on). Has a roof rack, too.

6. Reliability: I haven't had anything major go bad, and it's a 1994 with 166k miles. The regular maintenance I have had to do hasn't seemed overly expensive.

7. Safety: Don't really have any knowledge on this issue. Seat belts and dual front airbags.

8. Everyday practicality: It's supremely practical. I've used it for everything from driving across the country to and from school (loaded with all my stuff) to taking a bunch of friends and a pile of guns to the range. It only cost me $2200, too.

 

[cool45auto]

Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0!

 

[Das Pferd]

Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0!

He said reliability.

Just kidding I own a Jeep too.

 

[paddykern]

Another vote for a Subaru Forester XT.

Your list of requirements fits this vehicle perfectly.

 

[KaceCoyote]

What about a VW? The jetta 4-motion lacks ground clearance but its niether ritzy enough nor nasty enough to attract alot've attention. Modest understeer and an available VR6. The passat comes in AWD and the W8 motor now?

What about a Taureg, TDI is available this year I think.

 

[ducktapehero]

I will go against the grain and suggest a Ford Crown Vic. They are practical, reliable, powerful, extremely rugged, and are big and heavy enough to protect you should you ever have to ram your way out of a situation. Granted it isn't the best off road but with enough pratice you can learn to get by. Plus if you put a searchlight on it and wear a smoky bear hat, people will slow down and get out of your way.

 

[OtG]

from the bandwagon...

I'll second the Subaru recommendations. We have a Legacy wagon, and it's fairly nice. It's been reasonably reliable, and probably would be more so if my brother didn't wreck it a couple times.
Our 1985 Chevy S-10 is a bit (read "very") rusty, but runs great, and is a lot simpler than most new cars. Gas mileage is pretty good for a truck (20-24 mpg, regular driving).

The Outback or Forester (or a WRX ) seems just about ideal for your purposes.

The Volvo SUV/Wagons are nicer, but more expensive to buy and repair. Probably harder to find parts, too.

For me, I like my Civic wagon, or a light pickup with a cap, so I can put a mattress and supplies in.
Has enough room to carry ammo for the zombies, too.


-Owen

 

[LeonCarr]

Another vote for the Ford Crown Victoria. Great ride, lots of power, and surprisingly good mileage (IME 20-22 MPG on the highway).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[hjaeger]

I would recommend something along the lines of a mid-80s Mercedes 300D diesel, because they have decent ground clearance, great maneuverability and engine response, very durable, and very spacious. Tried and tested by the Russian mafia

Otherwise, I would go with the Subaru recommendations. A WRX impreza, especially in the wagon/hatch configuration, would have excellent performance, all-wheel-drive, great fuel economy, and impeccable reliability. In Finland and Sweden these cars (well, specially prepared ones; Prodrive WRX, anyone?) go blasting about over 100 MPH on dirt roads through the woods. Rally/street cars, in my opinion, are a lot of fun; it is too bad that more manufacturers aren't into this spectrum any more; an Audi Quattro Sport from the mid 80s would be nice.

 

[Quintin Likely]

They're kinda expensive, but if I wasn't tied up with what I drive now, I'd be looking at an Escape Hybrid. FWD or AWD, surprisingly flickable for a little SUV, 35-40 mpg average.

Ford took a handful of these things, gassed them up and ran them all over Manhattan, up and down streets, through rush hour stop and go traffic. 38 hours later, they ran out of gas. 15 gallons of gas, 38 hours of gridlock driving. They averaged a low of 35ish mpg.

To make sure they were right, Ford ran 170 prototypes through five different climate extremes on three continents before releasing them to the public. Looks awful cool for what it is.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/index.asp?bhcp=1

 

[grimlock]

OtG, I drive a WRX Wagon, and the only reason I suggested the Forester XT over it was that it's roomier inside and has more low-end torque.

I'd definitely "settle" for a WRX Wagon.

 

[Moparmike]

I know you need a trunk, but have you condsidered a Subaru Baja?


Other than that, I would suggest a Unimog. That 300D isnt a bad idea either. They go and go and go, and with proper maintenance, are a sure bet to see 750,000 miles on the engine. I would have a spare body and transmission if I were you for that engine though.