#83
Kleanbore
Moderator
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Posts: 1,407
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Posted by gunnie: ...with no weed fields, or ammonia sources at my house, what would be the cause for their coming through at night?
If they know you do not have anhydrous ammonia, that reduces the risk. If you know that there are now grow houses hidden on nearby property, better yet. Of course, they just might be looking for a portable generator, your truck, or (you name it)...
AND COME EQUIPPED TO COMPLETE THE TASK, JUST IN CASE? THE GROW HOUSE PEOPLE WILL RUN TO MY HOUSE, WITH A BUST GOING DOWN AT THEIR (HAS TO BE) CLOSE RESIDENCE, NOT AWAKE MY DOG RUNNING THROUGH THE FIELD, AND CAP ME WITH THE TEN PLUS POUND RIFLE AND PNV WEAPON SIGHT THEY FELT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO THEM RUN FASTER?
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assuming they are capable of cooking/selling product, why risk stealing propane?
Good question. Why do they steal it? Could it be because that's what they use, and the authorities keep an eye on people who buy very much in certain areas?
WHERE DID YOU GET INFORMATION SHOWING THE AUTHORITIES DO THAT? MOST HOUSES OUT HERE HAVE 500 GALLON TANKS. DO THEY GO IN AND CHECK THE RECORDS OF THE HALF DOZEN PROPANE DELIVERY SERVICES IN THIS AREA, AND THERMALLY SCAN ALL THE RESIDENCES THAT CONSUME DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNTS FOR HEAT LOSS AROUND DOORS/WINDOWS, OR THROUGH POORLY INSULATED OLD HOUSES, OR JUST SHOW UP WITH A WARRANT THEIR UNCLE THE JUDGE ISSUED?
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If they just murdered either of those next door, they:
1-walked from there VERY quietly,
Basis for that assumption? They could have left by car or truck and gotten stuck... And of course, there's the house on the other side, and the next one over, and the next one.
THIS NEW ADVENT ON TOP OF ALL THE OTHER STIPULATIONS ADDS TO THE PROBABILITY OF THIS SCENARIO HAPPENING HOW? DOES IT ELIMINATE THE CHANCES OF THEM BEING DETECTED BY MY DOG(S) MENTIONED IN MANY PREVIOUS POSTINGS? IF YOU HAD BOTHERED TO READ MY POSTING YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN WHERE I WROTE THE NEAREST CONCEALMENT BESIDES THE BUILDINGS WAS 125 YARDS. AND THAT THE HOUSES WERE FURTHER. HOW DOES ADDING EVEN MORE HOUSES INTO THE EQUATION CHANGE THAT STATEMENT? THERE ARE NO HOUSES ACROSS THE ROAD FOR 1,025 YARDS.
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or i will know about them before police arrive
Well, yeah. You are already reacting to signs of possible trouble, right ...
HOW ELSE DO YOU FEEL THEY MAY ARRIVE BESIDES ON FOOT OR IN AN AUTOMOBILE? I HAVE POSTED ALREADY THE DOG WOULD HEAR EITHER. HOW WILL THEY GET HERE WITHOUT ME COMPLETELY FABRICATING THE PREVIOUS POSTING ABOUT THE DOG HEARING RACCOONS 100 YARDS OUT AT NIGHT. DO YOU FEEL THAT STATEMENT IS NOT WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY? PLEASE REPLY, BUT REMEMBER MANY KNOW HOW WELL A DOG HEARS WITHOUT HAVING TO DIG UP THE INFO ON THE WEB.
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2-used silencers,
Why?
LET ME DO THE LEG WORK FOR YOU, BELOW FROM:
http://www.dqpestcontrol.com/detectiondog.html
"DOGS CAN SMELL UP TO 10,000 TIMES BETTER THAN HUMANS. THEY CAN DETECT FROM A SINGLE DROP OF URINE, ANOTHER ANIMALS SEX, DIET, HEALTH, EMOTIONAL STATE, AND EVEN WHETHER IT IS DOMINANT OR SUBMISSIVE, FRIEND OR FOE...DOGS CAN SENSE ODORS AT CONCENTRATIONS NEARLY ONE HUNDRED MILLION TIMES LOWER THAN HUMANS CAN...DOGS CAN SEE FAR BETTER THAN HUMANS CAN. THEY HAVE HEIGHTENED PERIPHERAL VISION AND EXCELLENT NIGHT VISION. DOGS CAN SENSE MOVEMENT BETTER THAN HUMANS CAN...DOGS HEARING IS MORE ACUTE THAT OF HUMANS AT BOTH LOWER VOLUME AND HIGHER FREQUENCIES. IN FACT...AT HIGH FREQUENCY THAT HUMANS CAN'T HEAR AT ALL"
SO WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO STOP MAKING NOISES THAT DOGS CAN HEAR, BECAUSE WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WE ARE MAKING THEM. BACK TO YOUR QUESTION...
TO KEEP THEIR DOGS FROM BARKING, OR MINE. EVEN IN A HOUSE, THE 315 YARD DISTANCE FROM THE FURTHEST HOUSE WILL NOT KEEP MY DOGS FROM HEARING UNSILENCED FIRE. ELIMINATING THE 2 DOGS THEY KEEP OUTSIDE QUIETLY WILL LIKELY BECOME TRICKIER. EVEN SILENCED FIRE WILL NOT FOOL THE REMAINING INDOOR DOGS, AND MY DOG WILL ALSO HEAR THEM BARKING IN THEIR HOUSE. YOU HAVE NEVER LIVED IN THE COUNTRY, HAVE YOU? I DON'T MEAN VISITED GRAND-DAD. YOU HAVE NEVER LIVED IN THE COUNTRY. YOUR IDEAS OF POSSIBILITIES DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE WAY THINGS ARE OUT HERE. YOU FEEL THE ONLY REASON VIOLENT CRIME IS LESS PREVALENT OUT HERE IS THAT WE DON'T GET THE EXPOSURE TO VIOLENT PERPS THE CITY DOES. DON'T YOU?
US GRITS OUT HERE IN THE BOONIES ARE USED TO BEING OUR OWN FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE, AND MANAGED TO DO PRETTY GOOD FOR OUSELVES, EVEN BACK IN THE LAST DEPRESSION. IF YOU DON'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO CURRENT EVENTS EITHER, THAT WAS WELL BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT DETERMINED THAT POLICE WERE ~NOT~ REQUIRED TO PROTECT US.
PLS SEE:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html
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after the police were called by deceased,
More likely by someone who has returned home, wouldn't you think?
IF THEY KILL THEM BOTH, NO ONE ELSE LIVES THERE. THE CHANCES OF ONLY ONE OF THEM BEING GONE AT NIGHT ARE NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT SLIM. HE'S A RANCHER, AND SHE'S A HOUSEWIFE. BOTH ARE VERY ELDERLY, HE HAS HAD EYE SURGERY, BUT IS STILL ALL BUT LEGALLY BLIND AT NIGHT. SHE DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE EXCEPT TO SHOP IN THE DAYLIGHT. THE OTHER SIDE HOUSE OWNER WORKS NIGHTS, SO THAT REMOVES THAT POSSIBILITY 5/7THS OF THE TIME.
WE ALL LOOK OUT FOR EACH OUT HERE, ALSO. THAT'S WHY WE LET EACH OTHER KNOW WHEN WE ARE NOT HOME TO WATCH OVER THINGS. WE GO FEED THEIR DOGS WHEN THEY WILL BE GONE FOR LONG PERIODS, AND THEY OURS. WE CALL EACH OTHER WHEN A SUSPICIOUS VEHICLE OR PERSON HAS HEADED DOWN EACH OTHER'S DRIVEWAYS. WE CALL AND ASK IF ALL IS WELL WHEN SHOTS ARE FIRED, EVEN IN THE DAYTIME. WE CALL AND WARN IF WE PLAN TO, OR MIGHT BE SHOOTING IN NON-EMERGENCY SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT.
THE BOONIES REALLY DON'T COME INTO YOUR SPHERE OF EXPERIENCE, DO THEY?
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and the LEO's mistakenly drove up to my address, instead of the caller's
3-killed/silenced 2-6 dogs with out alerting their dogs, depending on the household
No, the officers are in hot pursuit. Part of their job, as it were...
AND DROVE UP TO MY HOUSE IN A SILENT PATROL CAR, THAT MADE NO NOISE ON THE GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, SO THE DOG(S) DIDN'T NOTICE. THEY ALSO DID NOT HAVE THEIR LIGHTS, EMERGENCY BEACONS OR SIREN ON, AS MENTIONED IN PRIOR POSTING.
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4-got to my house through at least 125 yards from nearest concealment, or 175 yards and up to 315 yards with no concealment from the houses
To your house, in back of your garage, through your property, whatever...
AS ALSO MENTIONED IN PREVIOUS POSTING, SHOP IS 25 YARDS FROM HOUSE. AGAIN THE SUPER-NINJA PERPS MOVE MORE SILENTLY THAN RACCOONS?
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all without arousing my dog(s)....
I would expect the dogs to have been aroused, and probably to have located one of the perps...
AS MENTIONED ~ALSO~ IN PREVIOUS POSTING I LOOK OUT THE WINDOW TO SEE WHAT DIRECTION THE DOG IS CONCERNED WITH. DO YOU FEEL THIS WOULD BE A TEN SECOND TASK, THEN I WOULD CHARGE OUT (STEALTHILY ENOUGH TO GET WITHIN 50 YARDS OF A WILD PIG) IN A HEADLONG RUN?
MY ONLY QUESTION BEYOND ALL OF THIS:
DO YOU ONLY READ IN MY POSTINGS THE ITEMS THAT WILL SUIT YOUR IMMEDIATE NEEDS? OR IS THIS ADVANCED SYMPTOMS OF SELECTIVE MEMORY KICKING IN?
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I guess i'd need to ask if the local department shoots people coming out of the house on the land they just drove up on,
Coming out of your house? No. But why would you ever assume that they would have any way at all of divining where you came from when you come upon them with a weapon light pointed at them when they are looking for someone who is armed and dangerous?
SO...THE POLICE HAVE ALSO HAD NINJA TRAINING. THEY GOT TO MY HOUSE AFTER CLEARING THE CRIME SCENE HOUSE, AFTER THEY INVESTIGATED THE HOMICIDE, AFTER THE AMBULANCE GOT THERE, AND THEN ARRIVED AT MY HOUSE IN THE NIGHT, WITH ME BLISSFULLY PURSUING SOMETHING THE DOG DID MANAGE TO HEAR, AND COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE EVEN IN THE POST MORTEM PHASE? YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING A HARD TIME FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION FLOW HERE, OR YOU ARE NOT EVEN CONSIDERING WHAT I HAVE PREVIOUSLY STATED.
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unannounced, and late at night, without offering even the word "police" first,
They may say "drop the gun, police", but they may not; they are not obligated to do so. They will not regard the risk of someone with a weapon pointed at them lightly.
MORE REPEATING PREVIOUS POSTING, SO THE SILENT POLICE CAR ARRIVES WHEN I AM OUT IN THE YARD WITH THE DOG, AND NEITHER OF US KNOW? THE ONLY WAY I'D BE DRAWING DOWN ON THE LEO IS IF HE GOT THERE WITHOUT MY KNOWING.
PLS READ ONLY QUESTION AGAIN.
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...or having a siren or flashing lights going.
Yes, you do need to ask. They'll use the lights and siren during a highway chase or while rushing to the scene of an accident--but not in an action involving a hot crime scene or a reported burglary or while chasing people through a neighborhood or across a farm.
SO LET ME GET THIS NEW VARIATION THE THE SAME QUESTION STRAIGHT, YET AGAIN BOTH THE PERP AND THE LEO ARRIVE UNDETECTED?
PLS READ ONLY QUESTION.
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color me crazy, but i feel safe assuming that statistically, i will probably get killed by lightning before killed by perps i startled on a different mission, that created a need for them to be out in my yard at night, AND who fill all the unlikely parameters mentioned in them being able to do so.
Not crazy, but you have not had the benefit of very much professional training.
BUD, IF PROFESSIONAL TRAINING BRINGS ABOUT SERIOUS CONSIDERATION OF MANY OF THE SCENARIOS YOU HAVE JUST POSTED AS REAL WORLD, VIABLE POSSIBILITIES ONE MAY ENCOUNTER IN "THE GRAVEST EXTREME", I'LL RISK A PHD. IN THE SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS OVER SAME, ANY DAY.
The risk of a couple of armed bad men coming around to a place in the country at night is probably relatively low, but in some counties it's still high enough to make caution very advisable. The residences are few and far between, their house lights serve as beacons, and the criminal element is more mobile, more vicious, and more heavily armed than ever before.Heck, its getting dangerous to go into some national forests in broad daylight.
AND THESE GUYS ALSO CAN AIM THEIR WEAPONS IN COMPLETE DARKNESS. OR HAVE COME IN A LIKE STATE OF READINESS AS ALL THE OTHERS I HAVE NOT GOT A CHANCE AGAINST WITH ALL MY ILL ADVISED PROVISIONS.
As previously mentioned, farmers these days mitigate that risk by installing very bright lights, closed circuit TVs, and other alarm systems.
YOUR PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH STATES VERY BRIGHT LIGHTS ARE "BEACONS".
WHY WOULD I WANT LIGHTS TO ENABLE THOSE WHO COME BY AT NIGHT UNINVITED WITH THE ABILITY TO SEE ME? UNLESS THESE GUYS, LIKE SO MANY OTHERS, ALSO CARRY WEAPONS WITH PNV SIGHTS, IN WHICH CASE LIGHTS THAT POINT AT THEM DOES SEEM LIKE A WISE CHOICE.
IN A PREVIOUS POSTING OF MINE I ALSO STATED THAT I FELT INSURANCE WAS CHEAPER THAN CLOSED CIRCUIT CAMERAS/THERMAL IMAGING SYSTEMS AND BACK UP POWER TO PREVENT TOTAL LOSS OF USEFULNESS. THIS NEGLECTS ARMORED CABLE TO THE HOUSE TO PREVENT CUTTING, OR YET MORE EXPENSE FOR A WIRELESS SYSTEM, AND BACK UP POWER AT EACH CAMERA. THEFT INSURANCE SOUNDS BETTER ALL THE TIME.
DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT?
PLS ANSWER ONLY QUESTION
I think the perps usually try to go where no one is home, but (1) they sometimes misjudge, (2) they may be in great immediate need of a different vehicle with fuel in the tank, or (3) they may be meth addicts, in which case they do not know fear.
SO....IN THESE SCENARIOS:
1--PERPS CHECKED MY HOUSE OUT AT NIGHT TO SEE IF SOME ONE IS AT HOME?
2--THE NOCTURNAL PERPS HAVE CASED THE PLACE AT DAY TIME IN ADVANCE ON THE CHANCE THEY WILL SOMEDAY NEED A CAR TO JACK?
3--PERP #3 IS HOPELESSLY IMPAIRED/ADDICTED TO SPEED. HAS MANAGED TO KEEP FROM PAWNING HIS EXPENSIVE WARTOY WITH PNV WEAPON SIGHT ON IT WHEN MR. JONES CAME VISITING IN THE PAST. FIDGETED HIS WAY ACROSS 215 YARDS FROM ROAD, WITHOUT TALKING TO HIMSELF, NO STUMBLING, OR MAKING ENOUGH NOISE TO ALERT THE DOG(S), AND HAS PRACTICED ENOUGH WHILE WIRED INTO NEAR DRUG INDUCED COMATOSE, TO BE PROFICIENT WITH SAME FIREARM, KILLING ME INSIDE THE HOUSE, BECAUSE I AND THE DOG DIDN'T KNOW THEY ARE THERE, AND WILL NOT BE OUTSIDE WHERE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO FOR THEM SNEAK UP TO, IF AS STATED IN PREVIOUS POSTING, THE DOG BARKS AT CARS THAT EVEN MOVE TOO SLOWLY? OR WANDERED FROM OTHER DIRECTIONS THAN THE ROAD, THAT WILL ALL EVENTUALLY INVOLVE WALKING IN THE DARK THROUGH DENSE WOODS, MINIMUM ONE MILE TO ANOTHER ROAD, INSTEAD OF FROM THE HOUSE ACCESS ROAD, WHERE IN PREVIOUS POSTINGS THE RACCOONS CAN'T GET WITHIN 100 YARDS OF THE HOUSE UNKNOWN, AT NIGHT.
PLS READ ONLY QUESTION
In risk management, one must assess both the likelihood of an occurrence...
IN POSTING #82. GAVE MY STATISTICALLY UNPROVABLE ESTIMATION OF THE RELATIVE CHANCES OF ALL THE REQUIRED OCCURRENCES THAT WOULD NEED TO TAKE PLACE IN ORDER TO ARRIVE AT YOUR DESTINATION. SO FAR YOU HAVE NOT OFFERED ANY EVIDENCE YOUR OPINION IS MORE THAN JUST ANOTHER'S UNPROVEN ESTIMATION.
...and the severity of the potential consequences.
YET ANOTHER PREVIOUS POSTING, WHERE EVER DID YOU MANAGE TO FIND THE STATS I COULDN'T LOCATE, SAME MENTIONED IN POSTING #73?
PLS READ ONLY QUESTION.
When I was young, the likelihood of a rural resident being endangered by "bad guys" was far less than remote. One can make his own assessment today, but with drugs, meth, and quick shop robberies from which to escape, I think it is too high to ignore. As for the severity of the consequences--well, those aren't nice guys we're discussing.
SO...IN THIS SCENARIO, THE SPEED FREAK ROBS THE QUICKY-MART, IN AN EFFORT TO GET THE **** OUTTA DODGE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, EXITS THE HIGHWAY, ONTO A BUMPY ONE AND ONE HALF LANE FARM-TO-MARKET ROAD THAT ALWAYS NEEDS MORE POTHOLES FILLED AND UPON ARRIVING AT A BETTER LOOKING TWO TRACK GRAVEL DRIVEWAY AT A NINETY DEGREE ANGLE TO THE ROAD HE IS SPEEDING DOWN, DECIDES TO TAKE IT INSTEAD. AND ENDS UP AT MY HOUSE, WITH ALL OF THE NOISE REQUIREMENTS TO AROUSE MY DOG NOT QUITE MET? OH, AND DON'T FORGET, HE ROBBED THE STORE WITH THE GRATUITOUS PNV SIGHTED WAR-TOY, OR HAD IT HANDILY STASHED IN HIS ESCAPE VEHICLE.
PLS READ ONLY QUESTION
So, if it does happen--if a couple of armed perps should happen to come upon your property at night with evil intent--it becomes a matter of conditional probability. They're already there, so the remaining question is, what is the likelihood of your prevailing in a confrontation outside? Every assessment from qualified, trained persons, instructors, and people who have taken part in simulations of offensive and defensive engagements is the same: If the bad guys are out there, the lone defender going out after desperate, armed violent criminal actors doesn't have a chance in the world unless the perps choose to and can escape. The dogs will make escape much more difficult and increase the level of danger for the residents.
I AM NOT SAYING I KNOW EVERYTHING, PLEASE ADVISE ME OF THE STUDY/TRAINING/ COLLECTION OF STATISTICS THAT HAS LEAD YOU TO ASSERT THAT:
1--MOST PERPS PROWLING ABOUT IN REMOTE FARM HOUSE AREAS CARRY RIFLES WITH NIGHT VISION WEAPON SIGHTS
2--MOST OF THEM DON'T HAVE A CRIMINAL PAST THAT PREVENTS THEM FROM LEGALLY BUYING A FIREARM
3--OR, IF THEY ARE CONVICTED FELONS, HAVE THE RESOURCES TO PURCHASE SAME ON THE HIGHLY INFLATED BLACK MARKET
4--THEY MANAGE TO GO OUT AND SIGHT IT IN AT NIGHT, UNDETECTED
5--THEY FIND TIME AND PLACES WHERE THEY CAN PRACTICE WITH SAME AT NIGHT ENOUGH TO BECOME PROFICIENT WITH IT. AGAIN. WITHOUT BEING DETECTED
6--HAVE AN ACCOMPLICE IN TOW, WHO IS ALSO TRAINED ON A SIMILAR WEAPON HE CARRIES, AND GOT PROFICIENT WITH IT, OR IS FAST ENOUGH TO GET IT OFF HIS WOUNDED/DEAD COMRADE WITHOUT GETTING SHOT, OR IS GOOD ENOUGH TO SHOOT HIS WEAPON IN THE DARK AT AN ASSAILANT HE CAN'T SEE AND KILL HIM
6--PERP AND ACCOMPLICE USUALLY HAVE ASSUMED IT IS COST EFFECTIVE BUY THESE RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE ITEMS AND AMORTIZE THEIR INVESTMENTS BY STEALING TARGETS OF OPPORTUNITY IN FARMER'S YARDS
7--BOTH CAN WALK, OR DRIVE VEHICLES QUIETLY ENOUGH TO AVOID DETECTION BY A DOG ~AT HIS OWN HOME~
8--ABOVE WILL ALMOST ALWAYS PREVAIL AGAINST A SIMILARLY TRAINED AND ARMED HOME OWNER, IN HIS BACK YARD
The risk of being mistaken as a threat by arriving first responders is a lot lower, but it is not to be disregarded.
AGAIN, THE POLICE WILL GET THERE WITHOUT ME AND DOG KNOWING IT?
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unless they have specifically come to kill me, what are the odds of them arriving thusly prepared?
Most of them will guarantee you one thing--they are not going to be captured.
SO CITE THE STATISTICS YOU HAVE USED TO DETERMINE THEY WILL COME THAT PREPARED, AND PREVAIL.
OTHERWISE, WE ARE BOTH JUST STATING OUR OPINIONS. IT HAS DONE ME NO GOOD TO DESCRIBE THE ENVIRONMENT I LIVE IN SO FAR. YOU KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS THAT IGNORE PREVIOUS INFORMATION I HAVE SUPPLIED THAT WOULD HAVE ANSWERED THEM, SO IT SEEMS FUTILE TO CONTINUE SUPPLYING SAME UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO ENGAGE IN DIALOG, AND ACTUALLY READ MY ANSWERS.
YOU CAN'T CITE THE STATS THAT RELATE TO MY SITUATION, BECAUSE IT IS ANYTHING BUT A COMMON CRIME SCENE, AND SAME DO NOT GET AMASSED INTO USABLE NUMBERS OF OCCURRENCE. YOU ANSWER NO QUESTIONS I HAVE POSED, EVEN THE LAST ONE YOU QUOTED DIRECTLY ABOVE THIS PARAGRAPH. YOU SIDE STEP THE QUESTIONS WITH SCENARIOS THAT HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY FAR FETCHED. SOME OF THEM ARE EVEN STARTING TO BORDER ON THE ABSTRACT.
SO WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT ALL OF THE TRAINING, EXPERIENCE AND STATISTICS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THAT RELATE TO MY PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES?
OR JUST ONE REPORTED INCIDENT OF NON PROFESSIONAL KILLERS WHO WHACKED SOME FARMER OUT AT NIGHT INVESTIGATING WHY HIS DOG BARKED, WHO HAD A STARSCOPE ON A 20 ROUND SEMI-AUTO WARTOY HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH, WITHIN 50 YARDS OF HIS OWN HOUSE, AND THE DOG STILL ALIVE WHEN HE WAS SHOT.
THINK ABOUT THE LAST SENTENCE, IF THE DOG WERE ALREADY SHOT, HE WOULDN'T HAVE LEFT THE HOUSE. IF THE DOG GETS SHOT AFTER THE FIRST PERP, THE SECOND ONE HAS CHOSEN TO SHOOT THE DOG WITH EITHER HIS OWN NIGHT VISION SIGHTED WEAPON, OR HIS AMAZING ABILITY TO HIT AN UNSEEN TARGET IN THE DARK, AND HAS DECIDED THAT A CHANCE OF AVENGING HIS CRIME PARTNER MEANS MORE TO HIM THAN FLEEING BEFORE HE ALSO GETS SHOT. LOTS OF LOYALTY IN THE CRIMINAL WORLD THESE DAYS....
gunnie
