Tactical v. Practical

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"Bushido" is apparently speaking of the Buck Caper knife, a fixed blade, not a folder.

Bushido, while it is in no way "iresponcible" for anyone to suggest you try something before denigrating it- and it would have been easier for people to reply with certainty if you had been a little more certain of what you had before you started talking about it.

John
 
I think Bushido knew exactly what he had since he's the one with the knife. He's got a Buck 116 "Caper" fixed blade (not my favorite all around sheath knife, but plenty good enough).

I do think some others who aren't willing, or capable, of looking up what the guy was talking about popped off with a bunch of folder "advice" before they knew what they were talking about.

That said, I agree that the whole tackytool thing is primarily an adolescent marketing method (regardless of how many I have ;) ). A good 3-5 in fixed blade (notice how the frosts and the 116 fall into that category) handles more field/game choirs than most other knives. The sharpend rail ties and pointy pry bars become specialty tools that serve their particular use particulary well, but lack the general utility of the 3-5 in blade.

John's seen the knives I have, the ones I've tested, and the ones I carry. For the most part a well made 3-4 in fixed blade is what I'll carry into the woods or out to work around the house (along with a SAK and a 3-4in folder).

:evil: BTW Gurps may be cool to the chicks, but I.C.E. Iron Crown fis or real men :neener:
 
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Howsabout Nordic tactical? The only black knives I have are a Benchmade 806D2 Axis and a black Ka-Bar 1271 so they have their place, but they are far from being my favorites. (Well the 806 is my favorite EDC).

The rest of mine are field knives like from Bark River Knife & Tool or other small run production/ mid-techs, or are custom jobs of one flavor or another. I find that the "artistry" in knives has far more sources of excellence at a far more accessible level in terms of cost and time spent waiting than is available in gun collecting.

I buy upmarket in general because I can. A well designed heat & cryo treated A2, D2, or CPM 3V bladed knife will kick butt all day in terms of functionality over the most common off the rack carbon steels or even "good" stainlesses like VG-10.

There is more bang for the buck in knives as cost escalates, especially in terms of steel, handle materials, lock work on folders, etc., to a point. At about a +/- $500 cut off one is generally paying more only for the maker's name, the craftsmanship, the chance to own something unique or rare, or to own something that was crafted out of one's own vision.

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. I'd rather keep a craftsman anywhere in the world or a small company in America in business than help float a Taiwanese factory or buy an obvious design knock-off from the Third World.
 
hso point noted, i do know what knife i have. personally the average person like myself doesnt need a knife that costs more than 100 bucks. My dad has had is buck for 40 years now. still works. i like the custom knives, but if im gana spend 500+ dollars on a knife, ill just buy a gun. lol so anyway this is all off topic, i started this thread about why you need a special "tactical" knife and not just a plain good ole knife.
The Romans were smart, they new you didnt need a big facy knife. They new that most deaths were cause my stabs two inches or more deep. so they started useing ust a 2 inch blade. you can have a small fixed blade under your shirt in a neck knife or a boot knife.
Im reminded of what my karate teacher said, he said during WW2 that the navy seals were sent on missions with just a 22, with the slide locked, so you can only shoot one round at a time. so bigger and fancier doesnt mean better.
 
I wholeheartedly agree that one can get by with spending little money and come away with a good knife. Companies like Frosts, Opinel, Victorinox, Camillus, Buck and others prove that axiom daily.

However, there are some things in a knife one just can't get without paying the coin. I will just throw out some examples:

gameskeeper-stag.jpg


This is a Bark River Knife & Tool Gameskeeper. It is a 4.5 inch full tang drop point hunter. The three I have are the sharpest production knives I have ever encountered.

You can't get A2 steel in an inexpensive knife. Nor can one generally get a decent convex grind, nor handle options numbering in the dozens just by emailing before a production run. These things cost money and for a customized production knife like a BRKT one will pay between $60-$400 depending on the model and the options. My favorite one cost $135.00

Now here is what I would call an example of a "user friendly custom:"

claw%20green%20box%20elder.JPG

Mountain Hollow Knives

At $300.00 what one is getting here is something unique, but not so expensive that one should be afraid to use it. The spring steel used in the above knife is not a "supersteel," but it will benefit from the maker's attention to detail. Will it do anything a fixed blade Buck won't? Perhaps. These types of knives are generally more forgiving of being torqued into possibly bending, snapping, or other material mishaps than a factory run of blades made of an cheaper or more brittle steel and heat treated in a mass produced way. What you get at the hunting camp is envy, and when you think about how long the knife will likely last, you didn't pay too much.

And then of course, customs take off into the stratosphere from the price point of the one above. I have some trouble justifying to myself paying as much for a knife as for a gun, but I get over it. Where $500.00 at the gun shop buys me an anonymous lump of polymer and steel that just has to be fed, a knife of equivalent value is already a joy forever during my lifetime and as an heirloom for my son if it is a collector, or if it is a user, something that was made just for me and no one else. You just can't get that in a gun without dropping many more dollars in most cases.
 
Sorry about that, I was assuming that a "Buck 116" was some sort of variation on the Buck 110 or maybe the Buck 112. I should have looked up what knife it was before saying anything. I don't know my Buck model numbers by heart because numbers are a lot harder to remember than names. If you would have just said that you had the Buck Caper, i would have known what that was.

I didn't mean to upset your weary 18 year old heart. I know how much trouble it can be when someone thinks your fixed blade Buck is a folder. :rolleyes: For an 18 year old, you seem to be a little tense. When I was 18, I wasn't even on any internet forums and I know I wouldn't have been upset if someone thought a Buck 116 was a folding knife. :neener:

Anyway, all my statement are still true and I don't take any of them back. You need to try out more things before thinking they are a waste of time. I'm 29 so I am your elder and you have to listen to me. I could be your daddy. I demand your respect. :D
 
It is not as bad as it sounds, I'm nearly 30. :D

I'm glad to see that someone saw that I was joking around. ;)
 
albanian well im pretty tence, but then again i dont have what you call the average life. lol, i didnt care that you thought my knife was a folder. i was iretated with your airagence about the whole thing (excuse my spelling i come from public school). so anyway i like folders. i dont realy care for bucks blades, i just carry one because it looks nice, and its close to my heart i guess. Oh and i dont want to spend much money on somethin i might use lol. and i know your kidding about the being my dady thing. but you would have to be 10 years old when you got my mom knocked up lol. :what:
 
Man, you can't joke around on THR, without everyone getting their panties in a bunch.

Everyone, put down your guns and knives and do some deeeep breathing exercizes. Life is too short to get all bent out of shape all the time. :rolleyes:
 
personally i think getting all bent out of shape about stuff is healthy. lol im just a hot head. nothin big, just raises my blood pressure through the roof. anyway more about the knives and less about the feeling. this is a knive and gun forum lol. later.
 
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The knife I've probably used the most is one of those little, itty, bitty Swiss Army folders with the blade, scissors, nail file, tweezers, and tooth pick. That knife has been to some very remote places, and lived in my pocket until we had a shooting in the courthouse here in Seattle. Eventually one of the red plastic panels fell off so I ripped the other one off. It still lives in my desk, probably twenty years or more since I bought it.

I will confess to buying a Kershaw "chive" recently. It's a fun little knife.
 
Remember the picture of the Marine in Iraq who had stabbed his way out of trouble? His Buck pocket folder had pieces of flesh and blood on it and he had a grin on his face. It was enough for him, he used what he had in hand.
 
Boats,

Good Oooogly Moogly Man!!! Them's some purty knives! :what: I hope that all of them are in your collection so that I can be truly envious. :evil:

Bushido,

The only problem I have with Buck is the variable steel hardnes that has occured in the past. Early Bucks were dead on, as are the current ones, but there was a period during the 80's in which they had all sorts of hardness all over the board.

Back to the topic - Tactical knives are just industrial design by another name. Knife makers have always been striving to make the "ultimate" knife since the second guy built a knife. That included toughness, durability, ergonomics, edge holding, sharpness and aesthetics. Sometime in the past 20 years that aesthetic began to included elements of the industrial design movement and then became a style of it's own within the knife world when the appearance of toughness became an element in the aesthetics. There are "pretty" knives and "traditonal" looking knives that are tough, but the makers hold to an asthetic different than those for what's called "Tactical" style.
 
I have the BKRTs in five different examples and one knife from Mountain Hollow, but not the one pictured.

No nordic damascus though. That picture is off of knifeart.com and that maker's work for a knife that size is out of reach for fear of my marriage. ;)
 
John,

Well...in Indiana, maybe...

haha! :D

Look at this guys, coming from a guy from Georgia no less, are they teaching arithmetic in the public schools there yet? :neener:

;)
 
yea guys, let bushido carry whatever he wants. Besides 10 dollars isn't that much more of a difference. I mean i want a H&K PSG1 but i had to settle for a Ruger 10/22! i wish THAT had a 10 dollar difference!


BTW, 2nd edition dungeons and dragons is where the women are!
 
Daniel,

Wouldn't know- never attended any schools in Gawgia below college level...since I grew up in Alabama! :what:

John
 
Bushido-
Im reminded of what my karate teacher said, he said during WW2 that the navy seals were sent on missions with just a 22, with the slide locked, so you can only shoot one round at a time. so bigger and fancier doesnt mean better.

Just a little side note, the SEALs weren't around in WWII and your sensei's story is inaccurate. The OSS was the only branch to ever use the silenced .22 in any significant numbers and even then it was a specialty item; which was not a primary weapon intended for premeditated combat.

John-
Wouldn't know- never attended any schools in Gawgia below college level...since I grew up in Alabama!

That's cool brother, I grew up near the West Virginia border in PA so we'll just call it even ;)

Omni04-
BTW, 2nd edition dungeons and dragons is where the women are!

No way! The 1st Edition's "Monk" class is like Spanish Fly + 5 with an Eros + 2 modifier for chicks! :cool:
 
Buck has a tacticool folder!!!!

I was looking for a knife that I could open one handed and clip to my pocket since an incident clearing debris off of a beach a few weeks before that with my guard unit. I was at Wal-Mart of all places and I see this re4ally cool looking kinfe. :rolleyes:
But it was set up with a thumb hole at the top and had a pocket clip and was less than $40.00. So I got one.
My first Buck Odessy got carried everywhere I went and became my primary cutting tool. I even used it in the kichen and to whittle my parents some anniversary presents :p
Later on When I was getting deployed for Iraq, I thought I'd get a "Better" knife. I looked around for a while... I finally found this Cold Steel knife.... nice knife... but I just couldn't get use to it.
Now, keep in mind that I was pretty damaging to my first Odessy. At the time, I was pretty good at throwing ANY knife that I had on me... and throwing a pocket knife,(as we all know here) is not healthy for the knife.
So What did I do... I sold the Cold Steel and bought myself another Odessy. It's about the perfect knife for me. It is truly both Tacticool :cool: and Practical. :D
If you're a buck fan.... and you need to move up in the world of knives... look no further than a Buck Odessy. If you do go looking further..... you're PROBABLY wasteing money.
 
I was a kid in junior high playing D&D in my friend's parent's basement, then I bought a tactical knife, and I couldn't keep the chicks away.


lol.. gurps sucks the big one, btw...


Bushido:

Sometimes fixed blades are impractical, like when it's a felony to carry one concealed and stupid to carry one openly, like where I live. So when I nice little CRKT folder comes into play, it works out.

All tools have their purposes. To say one is fundamentally better than another when they have different purposes is comparing apples and oranges. I wouldn't use my CRKT m16 to fight or cut rope or whatever if I had a choice, just like I wouldnt use my 14" tanto to open letters.

Get my meaning?
 
IMO it really depends on the quality and manufacturer you are buying. Whether it be tactical or not if it cost 20$ it is worthless. I own buck knives, I own Emersons and many others. The difference between a buck an an emerson is night and day the buck doesn't even come close. It really is not a matter of brand name but the blade steel, the lock, the materials, etc. If they are quality it doesn't matter if it is an "evil black" knive or not. Most of the cheap tactical knives made by gerber, buck and other are probably a fad and the quality reflects that. Please go out and get a hold of a real tactical knife and you will see a difference and then comment on them. Do not let personal cheapness blind you to fact.
 
A cheap tatical is just like any cheap knife, junk. Folding knives that can be opened and closed with one hand and also clipped to the pocket or belt are not going anywhere. They represent true advancements in knife design and are not fads.
 
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