Take a look at my casing and tell me what you think.

[Doindia]

Hi all,

So I have been loading 115-124gr 9mm with 5 grains of unique, but i have some 147gr projectiles that I wanted to work up and had some titegroup to do it with. This is a new recipe for me. I started on the low end of the hornady reloading manual which is 3.2gr starting load to a 3.6gr max load


So this recipe was 147gr tmj fn sitting on 3.2 grains of titegroup with an OAL of 1.100.

I shot a total of 100 rounds. 45 out of my glock 19 and 55 out of my Glock 43x. Zero issues. While shooting the Glock 19 the cases were ejecting just fine but I could feel them falling straight at my feet as if though they seemed like a light load. In the Glock 43 they ejected more appropriate. I’m pretty new to this and only have minimal tactile sense to go off of/compare as well as the left over casings. Tell me what you all see looking at these cases.

 

[Rule3]

Can't tell much if anything from those pictures, You are at the low range of the data,

Problem with Titegroup is just that , the RANGE, 3.2 to 3.6. No much leeway.
I do not use it, although some folks love it.

A little bit to much in a 9mm is then called Tite KABOOM.

 

[lordpaxman]

I started on the low end of the hornady reloading manual which is 3.2gr starting load to a 3.6gr max load

I don’t have a entry in my Hornady #10 manual for Titegroup for a 147gr bullet. Hodgdon online has one for a Hornady XTP, perhaps you started there?
Titegroup’s a good powder but very unforgiving. If you can’t find a published load for your specific bullet and Titegroup, you can experiment but it goes from ok to boom in hurry.
If you’re going to experiment, you should try to find a published load with a bullet that’s close to yours as possible. Lead to lead, jacketed to jacketed and then ideally you should know the bullets OAL so you can adjust your load such that the seating depth, not COL, is approximately the same.
Having said all that, sounds like your load works and the case pictures look like normal Glock fired brass to me. Your 19 has a heavier slide mass than the 43 so ejection distance would be less. I would agree you’ve got a light target load. If you have or have access to a chronograph it would tell a lot. If you’re just loading for light target ammo, I’d check group size and if warranted increase a tenth or two to see if it improved. If you’re looking for a higher power SD load, I’d choose a different powder entirely. Good luck!

 

[jmorris]

I see brass that’s been fired in something with an irregular breech face or an eroded one.

Kind of looks like half a glock but rounded, likely because of the low pressure load.



A factory load would look more like this.



Nothing to worry about just what happens when you have a goofy oversized firing pin “hole”.

 

[Jim Watson]

Three friends here found poor ejection of Minor Power Factor 147 gr 9mm (880-900 fps) from Glocks.
They went to 115 and 124 gr bullets.

Back in the Stone Age (third quarter of 20th century) there were observations, even powder company recommendations, that light loads of fast burning powders were not fully reliable in European pistols.

I would use the Unique for those 147s and increase the load until I got positive ejection or hit the book maximum.

 

[Doindia]

@lordpaxman you’re absolutely right, I was getting it in my head that I used my book and I definitely used the Hodgdon website. I Def would love a chronograph but currently don’t have one or access to one. These are definitely just target loads and I have not shot for groups yet because I’m testing on ar500 that could use a new spray or paint. I’ve seen online where some guys shoot 2.9-3 grains of titegroup on this setup and deem it to be fine. I’m not trying to work any highly accurate load that is pushing any limits so I actually just loaded 50 at 3 grains and I’m gonna shoot those out of the 43x and see how they do. And all I have heard is how tight the margin for error is with titegroup so once this pound is gone I’ll switch back to my unique or something else. Unique just didn’t have a recipe that I could find for the 147gr bullet, hence the titegroup. I’m just cautious when I check the charges because a double charge would be possible and a huge deal with this powder. Where as 5 grains of unique could never be double charged in the 9 casing because it almost fills the case itself.

 

[lordpaxman]

I’ve seen online where some guys shoot 2.9-3 grains of titegroup on this setup and deem it to be fine.

I should say something wise like “don’t use internet data...”, but then I’d have to run around and tell you that’s one of my competition loads. In my case it’s a coated lead RN bullet at 145gr loaded at 1.120” and 3.0gr of Titegroup runs 888FPS through a P226 which is a 129 PF.
You need to develop your own loads for your own gun, which you are doing, and take other’s data with a grain of salt. Respect any powder your are using and you’ll be fine. Good luck!

 

[243winxb]

What primer is being used? I see primer flow into the firing pin hole.

 

[AJC1]

I dont see or understand the surprise and shock of working with tg. All fast pistol powders have a small window and bullseye is about the same and zip is just as bad. The cost of working with a fast pistol powder is a minor reduction in cost and often low power loads that are accurate. Tg is a good powder in 9 and 45 and I shoot a bunch of it. A good scale and supreme attention to detail is required. If you need case overflow as a protection from blowing up your firearm then fast pistol powders are not your thing.

 

[Doindia]

@243winxb it’s a Winchester spp

 

[Jim Watson]

I dont see or understand the surprise and shock of working with tg. All fast pistol powders have a small window and bullseye is about the same and zip is just as bad.

Right, the "narrow window" is because Titegroup is a "fast burning" powder with a relatively small maximum charge. So the usual 10% reduction to a "starting load" is a very small number. 90% of not much does not show much difference.

I think Bullseye is more flexible than Titegroup and the other "modern" fast burning powders. I have loaded it everywhere from .45 ACP hardball down to a powderpuff load on a 10 lb recoil spring.

I prefer W231/HP38 for non-magnums except Bullseye is better for those powderpuff loads.
But there are a lot to choose from; during the last Panic, I identified 26 powders with published loads for 9mm P. A friend found two of them, bought one, and has stayed with it ever since in preference to what he used before.

 

[243winxb]

A WSPM or other mag primer may reduce flow with a thicker cup. May also make it easier to read pressure signs on the primers..

I am currently using WSPM now in 38 spec & 357 mag.

As long as the WSP dont pierce, should be ok.

 

[Jim Watson]

Reading primers: Glock 43 series does not have the rectangular firing pin hole of the bigger guns. It is round with a slight relief at the bottom for a "teardrop" appearance. It is going to give a different impression than what you are used to.

 

[Rule3]

Reading handgun primers is like reading Tea Leaves

 

[Jim Watson]

Yup.
I once loaded some 9mm with the soft Federal primers I normally reserve for weak spring revolvers. Fired appearance was scary, or would have been to a Primer Reader. Back to WW, back to normal looking dents.

 

[markr6754]

Thanks for sharing your brass pics. I think I now have a better understanding of what "dirty powder" looks like in a fired case. I've never had or seen cases that dirty, so maybe now I know what to expect when I use my newly acquired 700-X for the first time.

 

[Cannibul]

By the time a pistol primer shows the "high pressure" signs you're deep into the blowup zone.

Primer reading is a rifle thing.

 

[Telum Pisces]

I have about 4 lbs of unique left right now. I'll be using it until it's gone for all my 9mm and 45 ACP loads. I just love the stuff. I have some tightgroup and have not touched it yet.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks for sharing your brass pics. I think I now have a better understanding of what "dirty powder" looks like in a fired case. I've never had or seen cases that dirty, so maybe now I know what to expect when I use my newly acquired 700-X for the first time.

OH NO! TG has it ALL!

Titegroup has it all – low charge weight, burns clean, mild muzzle report and superb, uniform ballistics.

The cases probably look that way (any powder would) due to a low charge or not enough neck tension for a complete burn.
Know if the OP actually has exactly 3.2 gr of powder in there, A teeny tiny increase may change that. But I do not use TG. I also prefer BE and it will get "dirty" at low charges so will HP 38 which I use more than any other powder.

 

[Doindia]

All good info guys, I was curious about the inside of the casings as many have touched on but i will say I had a light in them and they show waaaaay dirtier in the photo than they actually look in person, although still nice and dirty. I’d agree with the above. The possibility of me having an extra .1-.2 grain in there is definitely possible and yeah the cases are extremely low charge. 3 grains literally looks like a light sneeze into the cartridge.

for what it’s worth I’ve seen people on videos using 2.9-3gr under the 147 and I loaded 50 of those today (3.0gr) and they shot accurate and cycled great in the 43x so that’s probably where I’m gonna hang for a plinking load

 

[markr6754]

OH NO! TG has it ALL!

Titegroup has it all – low charge weight, burns clean, mild muzzle report and superb, uniform ballistics.

The cases probably look that way (any powder would) due to a low charge or not enough neck tension for a complete burn.
Know if the OP actually has exactly 3.2 gr of powder in there, A teeny tiny increase may change that. But I do not use TG. I also prefer BE and it will get "dirty" at low charges so will HP 38 which I use more than any other powder.

Well, I don't have a dog in this fight. Never fired TiteGroup, never fired 700-X...as to your quote directly from Hodgdon's page, here's response from someone that tested a massive number of 9mm powders.

"Despite its economical nature, its easy availability even in time of shortages, and its good accuracy, we don't recommend this powder at all. It runs too hot, its dangerous if you double load/charge and its dirty. This is one of the least favorite in the entire 9MM field of powders, and we could possibly like it least, last place. We spent a lot of time at the range with this. A guy had a white long sleeve shirt on. After shooting this for an hour, the right sleeve was covered in soot from this and the left, but lesser. Why get all dirty and potentially breath that in. Its really not that economical, if you do the math, because powder is the least impact on cost in the entire bullet makeup at like a few cents per round,"

So there's the main issue with this sport...where does one go for the definitive answers? In the end...personal experience, because every gun is different, every loader is different, and every range is different. Too many variables to state absolutes.

 

[lordpaxman]

A bit off topic here, but I don’t consider too many powders an issue. There are a lot of components and specifications which leads to a lot of permutations.
This “someone that tested...”, unless I had more information on, would not weigh heavily on my decision process.
If you look at the surveys the competition crowd does at major matches two things stand out for the 9mm production division: They load on Dillon and use Titegroup. If they don’t use Titegroup, they use N320. Sport Pistol is slowly making it’s way there. Just sayin...

 

[243winxb]

By the time a pistol primer shows the "high pressure" signs you're deep into the blowup zone.

The pressure in the primer pocket is calculated to be approximately 23,890 psi( #41 primer.) https://discover.dtic.mil/
Prime fired only. No bullet or powder. Not a pistol primer.

The cartridge working pressure is 35,000 PSI for 9mm & 21,000 for the 45 acp.

Reading primers may be possible on 9mm but not 45 ACP??
But the 45acp depends on the load.
Compare 3.8 grs Bullseye to 10.5 grs Blue Dot with WLP & 200 gr lswc in the 45acp. Read the primers.