Takiing Your Gun Away

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Mike Franklin

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Has anyone here ever had an assailant try to take your handgun away from you?
Has anyone had an assailant successfully take a handgun away from you?
I'm talking about someone forcibly taking a gun, wrestling it away, not like holding you at gun point and ordering you to throw down your gun.
 
This is a bigger problem with cops because they have to detain suspects. WE DON'T. Never forget that. Your goal is to save yourself, not arrest anyone. You do not need to hold the suspect. Most of the time you will either shoot him or he will run off, in which case you will NOT shoot him.
 
If it's concealed nobody knows I have it.

If it's not concealed then I felt the need to draw and anyone trying to reach out towards me at that moment will be shot.

Cops have a harder time because their guns are on open display and the vast majority of the time they are trying to take someone into custody rather than shoot him and that's when the gun grab can happen. I don't arrest criminals, I just shoot them. One of the advantages of being a civilian.
 
My Semi-auto has a nice feature in that if you think your going to loose the gun, you press the magazine release and the gun will not fire...

My S&W 5906 works that way. Depending on the situation it can be a good or bad feature.
 
In almost all of the SD discussions ive read here the defensive display ends the confrontation. Think about it if I point a gun at a BG his chances of getting whatever it was he wanted from me just went to almost zero, he has nothing to gain by continuing the attack. But if he goes after a cop and the cop draws he's screwed if he surrenders he's going to jail if he continues the attack he might get away. So as has been stated he's probably more likely to attack the cop
 
If my gun gets taken it will be empty and it will be the investigating officer taking it...or a really bloddy bad guy.
 
Points well made about not negotiating with a drawn pistol. Gun only clears leather when it's shooting time.

That said, here's a primer on not loosing it to a BG.

Hold the pistol near your side and away from the BG, not in front of you near the BG.

Extend your non shooting hand forward and understand that if the BG gets near your outstretched hand, you had better be shooting.

Gun in front of you near the BG, he owns you - gun near your side away from the BG, you own him.
 
"A BG should never get close enough to your gun to take it."

Yeah, my force field will keep him a safe distance away. ;)

What am I supposed to do, tell him to stay away? Actually, anyone crazy enough to attack a man armed with a pistol NEEDS to be shot!

PJ
 
i had a less than intelligent customer who pulled an empty (sw9ve) on someone who was "talking smack" the person then walked upto the kid took the gun and beat him with it....


needless to say he is not a customer anymore and i think he deserved everything he got.. and is lucky that other person involved didnt kill him
 
I've had dicey situations where I've had BGs go for my gun, and I've had partners who drew on BGs in close quarters and had the gun knocked loose. In all of these situations we won by not depending on the gun as our only line of defense--it is the most dangerous tool in the box, but I have LOTS of tools. We fought back, and either physically controlled the BG or got enough space to recover our weapon and take care of things that way. If you decide that you want a gun to use for HD, you should prepare yourself for ALL HD contingencies because now EVERY confrontation will involve a gun--the one you bring. Just because you don't plan on having a BG get close enough to lay hands (or pipes, or chains...) on you does not mean that the BG is going to be nice enough to follow your plan.

Practice with your weapon, but also train for unarmed fighting as well. Boxing, karate, krav maga, whatever...but do something. Hit the gym, get your endurance up, work on strength training, get your body ready and able to handle the stress of a fight (good for self-defense with added benefits for your general health!) I know--"gosh, this sounds like a lot of work!" It IS a lot of work, but if you ever do get in that fight there is no substitute for training and there's no faking it if you don't train.

Oh, and bigfatdave--BG=Bad Guy (either this clears it up, or I look like a tool for not picking up on a sarcasm :))
 
ByAnyMeans,
Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. I guess PJ just wanted to mock me for some reason even though I think I was correct in what I said. If someone is going to cause you grave bodily harm and you let them get close enough to take your gun you deserve anything that happens next there PJ. Hey, it takes all kinds and I won't answer in kind because, after all, this is The high Road...
 
knives if well used do more damage than any handgun can do...
Click to expand...

I want to take the high road here, and will do so by not saying the first thing that immediately came my mind when I read this. What I will say, under heavy self-moderation, is that this is a particularly dumb thing to say.

No doubt about it, knives can inflict some damage, but you are flatly out of your mind if you think that I would choose any knife over virtually any handgun in a fight.
 
timbo you are more than welcome to draw your firearm...

i will explain to you why i said that knives can do more damage than guns in a specific situation..

the biggest advantage of firearms is the extended range..

most defensive scenarios take place within 3 feet... would you agree that that is within arms reach?

now if i draw my gun and you grab me we are now wrestling...


if i draw my knife and you grab me im slicing anything you throw at me....

not to mention if the person wielding the knife knows anything about using knives they can sever arteries, tendons etc....

so basically within close range like that its actually safer in my opinion to draw a knife not to mention will cause more unrepairable damage...

i don't think there is a place in the usa where you will get someone to respond fast enough to save someone who has a couple severed arteries... not to mention i don't think you will be in much danger if the tendons in the arms, legs, etc have been cut as well (as people cannot physically move with the major tendons cut)


but either way it is your choice how you defend yourself... the first key in defending yourself is not getting into the situation in the first place... awareness and avoidance is better then getting into the situation in the first place.. i do however concede that sometimes situations may be unavoidable...
 
ArchAngelCD, I wasn't picking on you, sorry if it sounded that way. I'm XLEO and work security these days, and it's a little hard to go deal with a problem without getting close to people. Being in a crowd is always dicey, you could be surrounded by BG's and never know it until they turn on you.

A home defense situation is the exact opposite, you know who everybody is, and who doesn't belong. But out in public you can very quickly find yourself outnumbered, and keeping people away from you is a lot more problematic. The closest thing to a force field I've seen is a homeless guy who smelled so bad no one wanted to be within 15 feet of him!

As was stated in the last post, awareness and avoidance are the two best tools you can employ.

Again, sorry for the affront, it was directed at the situation, not at you.

PJ
 
If someone is going to cause you grave bodily harm and you let them get close enough to take your gun you deserve anything that happens next
Click to expand...

I have to disagree here with this statement also. Although environmental awareness will always help you the most, there are times where you wont have time to draw before a bad guy can get you.

Walking down the street for example, You can be aware of the people walking towards you, but once they get within 3 feet away, they can pounce on you pretty fast if that was their intent.
 
Too close

About 6 months ago I got a knock at my door at about 20:45 just as my wife and I were getting ready for bed. I told my wife to ignore it, it was probably someone that is lost, or wrong condo (we live in a condo)(duh..). About 2 minutes later the door was being knocked on again, so I told the (what I thought was individual) to go away, but they asked to use our phone as he had a car problem. I told them to tell me the number and I would call for them. The guys was adamant, and I was starting to get a little wary, so I told my wife to call the Henderson PD, but I knew that they would be pretty busy harrassing skateboarders, and getting free coffee at Starbucks, so I was probably on my own. I backed away from the door, and grabbed my carry, (XD-45) and prepared to wait. What seemed like 5 minutes (in reality about 45 seconds) the whole front of the condo shook and the door came open about 3 inches. I have a stop on my door that you would have to be Bruce Lee to kick open. As I took cover from a wall that is adjacent from my door noticed that there were in fact 3 BGs, and all about my size (About 6'2" and about 250) although I had them by a few pounds of doughnuts. Now I am confident that through the training that I received as part of my CCW, and the extra training that I have taken that I would have been able to dump all three in short order. The BGs saw that they were at a tactical disadvantage and were all about to meet the big house in the sky when they disengaged their attack and fled. About 15 minutes later when Henderson PD arrived to see my front door look like a bunch of toothpicks the cop mentioned to me that me being ready with my carry saved my life. I immediately started thinking about what would have happened if I didn't have it available, or if I was standing too close to the door when it was kicked in, and a billion other horrible things that didn't happen, but possibly could have in an alternate universe. I immediately started taking Jiu Jitsu and boxing and have lost about 35 pounds. I was not necessicarially frightend for my life but of my wife's. I will never be in a situation in which the BG has any thing over me. I also work on drills for close order training so that if I ever have to get that close to a BG again and I don't have the luxury of a door to seperate us, I will have some training to fall back on. Since I am a teacher I get off of work early so I have time at least 4 times a month if not more to train at the range, and plus there are many USAF Security Police that I train with at my Jiu Jitsu club. I came too close to my wife and I being victims.
 
This knife vs gun at close range thing has been hashed out and kicked around for years. One author even had statistics showing - in hundredths of a second - that at close range, a knife has a first strike advantage over a firearm. Police departments have used this as justification for shooting knife carrying opponents. There's a very old expression that implies overwhelming stupidity: "he brought a knife to a gun fight." I think that pretty much says it all. A knife is at its deadliest when used without warning, such as taking out a sentry silently. Defensively, if your firearm is lost a knife can disable your opponent more quickly than you can with bare handed strikes. Knives have their place in the big scheme of things, but they are not a substitute for a firearm - especially in a gun fight!
 
Pulling a gun on a really bad guy who's used to guns being pulled on him in the 'hood may scare you, but it will not scare him the way you think it will.

Are you prepared to shoot him if he is unarmed but you know he's tougher than you? If you aren't you might as well not pull it. Are you really used to fighting and know you can kick his butt? If you aren't he will take it from you and hurt you with it.

Then you better bettter be wearing a vest that can stop what you're carrying, he'll have no problem shooting you.
 
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