Competency after Inactivity?

[Styx]

Based on your skill level now with your EDC, do you believe you could successfully defend yourself at around 20 yards max self defense distances if you stopped going to the range or training for a few years, or do you believe you'd eventually would revert back to being on a newbie level shootwise?

Simply do you believe you would still be competent with a tried and true handgun your familiar with in a self defense shooting after a year or more of not going to the range or shooting any firearm?

I know some won't be able to help themselves, but please for the love of God let's leave out extremely "what if" scenarios, having to make head shots at 50 yards to take out a terrorist or mass shooter, having to be John Wick Jr by having to take on dozens of armed assailants, etc, so that we can just keep things simple???

 

[gwpercle]

After more than 50 years of hunting small game , large game , birds and waterfowl .
and after 25 years of NRA Bullseye (Precision) match competition ... I'm never reverting back to " newbe " shooter .
My skills are deep set and ingrained , I enjoy shooting and range time is just for fun ... I don't do golf , tennis or pickle ball ... I hunt and shoot handguns .
Would I be competent enough after a year of not practicing to defend my home ...
You betcha bottom dollar I could get that job done ... I might be a little rusty but me and my tack driving 38 Special will be up for that task ... Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise !
Gary

 

[Howland937]

After more than 50 years of hunting small game , large game , birds and waterfowl .
and after 25 years of NRA Bullseye (Precision) match competition ... I'm never reverting back to " newbe " shooter

After a lot less experience than you've accumulated, but quite a bit regardless... I'm not going to revert back to beginner level either. I haven't been on a bicycle in a few years but don't foresee needing training wheels if I ever ride another. Yes, things like reflexes and eyesight become more and more limited and skill of any type will diminish if not regularly practiced. Injuries happen and so forth. Barring anything debilitating, yes...I fully believe I will be able to make my gun function and put shots on target. As long as I remember where I put it

 

[Slamfire]

I don't need to have the skills to win a 2700 Bullseye Pistol match to hit a human at 7 yards.



Which apparently is a long distance based on self defense studies. A person at 20 yards is a real long way out there, and based on the firearm skills of the general population, I should be able to run to cover and slither away.

“He who fights and runs away
May live to fight another day;
But he who is battle slain
Can never rise to fight again.”
― Oliver Goldsmith

 

[WrongHanded]

Simply do you believe you would still be competent with a tried and true handgun your familiar with in a self defense shooting after a year or more of not going to the range or shooting any firearm?

No.

However, that is also assuming no dry fire practice of any kind.

Could I still shoot the gun? Sure. Could I shoot it well enough to defend myself when seconds matter? Nope.

I'm sure I can still drive stick too. But I couldn't jump in my old car and tear up the canyon like I used to a decade ago, hitting each shift exactly when I needed to with the RPMs matching.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

If I do not shoot each and every week, my times go up and my scores go up (worsen). If I shoot each week they stay pretty much the same. If I shoot twice a week...times go down and scores go down (improve).

After a year (or two) of no drawing from concealment, letting all those muscles (and tone) in my forearms and hands atrophy (that took years to develop), and forgetting where to reach for that cover garment and pistol...I'd have no better chance to defend myself (or anyone else) than some guy that buys a pistol, puts only 50 rounds through it, and carries it for the rest of his life.

And that's when working with the sights. Point shooting? Doubt I'd hit a man size target at 7 yards (when on a timer) after a 24 month hiatus.

Shooting on the move? I train regularly and am still not very good at it at 7 yards.

That's just me though. People that regularly train with a timer know the answer to this question.

 

[dweis]

Yesterday, I rode my neighbors bicycle. I had not been on a bicycle in 40 years. It all came back to me as I kicked off. It was all muscle memory. So is shooting, but accuracy is not muscle memory. It takes eye-hand coordination. Timing is critical. That takes practice. I have instinctively activated sighting and firing skills, but the do not guarantee accuracy. So I say that the longer you forgot practice the less accurate you will be even though you will likely handle your firearm OK. Yes, dry-fire would help, but the absence of recoil makes dry-fire less than the best way.

 

[film495]

20 yards is pretty far. If possible take cover, then run away.

I think time off will diminish skills or increase the likely something goes wrong, or lint is now binding up the slide or some issue. or messing up the safety, but for the most part - if it is there and the person trained with it, they'll have a good chance, but there are never any guarantees. IMHO, try to run away as a first and best option if possible.

 

[jmr40]

Dry fire is your friend. No it isn't perfect, but much better than nothing. But yes, at any distance inside my home it wouldn't be terribly hard to get hits with very little training.

My wife does NOT enjoy shooting. She will go to the range and put a few rounds down range every few years. And I'd bet she hasn't had more than 100 rounds total in her life. But she can hit a human target every time inside 10 yards when I can get her to go.

 

[FL-NC]

Shooting, like most skills, is a perishable skill. Lack of practice will definitely make one faster or more accurate. In fact, my $ says time and accuracy won't even be sustained. Does this mean you have no hope of coming out on top? No. But lack of training will absolutey effect efficiency and the likelihood of coming in first place.

 

[GBExpat]

... Simply do you believe you would still be competent with a tried and true handgun your familiar with in a self defense shooting after a year or more of not going to the range or shooting any firearm? ...

Yes.

 

[trackskippy]

If you're not keeping up, or at least trying to, youre falling behind, pure and simple. Add to that, going down in size with what you choose to carry, because its easier and more convenient, only makes things worse.

You likely wont forget "how" to shoot, but the longer you go without keeping up, the less likely youre going to be anywhere near competent, especially in any kind of realistic fashion. And there is a BIG difference between realistic, and basic slow fire target shooting.

 

[entropy]

If my EDC were my 1911, I'd say I wouldn't worry too much. It's the pistol I shoot the least, yet shoot the best. It takes less practice with it to retain proficiency because of the amount of previous practice. Same goes for Remington, Ithaca, and Winchester pumps, the 1100, and the AR. The 'muscle memory' is there.
My EDC(s), however, are my Gx4 and TCP 738 both of which I am going to be working on building that repetition up with. It took about 500 rounds to get familiar with the red dot on the Gx4, and building and maintaining any decent proficiency with a pocket .380 is always a challenge.
I remember some years ago reading in an issue of The American Rifleman, in that front column about successful self defense use of firearms, about an octogenarian veteran who used a 1911 to KO a would be home invader. He hadn't fired it in years.

 

[buck460XVR]

do you believe you could successfully defend yourself at around 20 yards max self defense distances if you stopped going to the range or training for a few years

....I'm kinda with the next 2 posters. 20 yards with a EDC, is a long shot even for many who go to the range and practice regularly @10 yards. Since I hunt with handguns, I regularly practice at distances of 40 to 125 yards. But my hunting handguns are different than my SD guns. One thing for sure.....skill will and does diminish without practice, especially when you are dependent on the very first shot after a long hiatus of a few years, to hit it's mark.

A person at 20 yards is a real long way out there

20 yards is pretty far. If possible take cover, then run away.

....I'm more on boat with this comment.

I don't need to have the skills to win a 2700 Bullseye Pistol match to hit a human at 7 yards.

 

[kidneyboy]

Simply do you believe you would still be competent with a tried and true handgun your familiar with in a self defense shooting after a year or more of not going to the range or shooting any firearm?

Yes. Been there and done that. Health issues kept me from shooting for about 2 years. Defensive shooting accuracy didn't diminish. Precision shooting took some time to get back.

 

[Pat Riot]

Yes. Been there and done that. Health issues kept me from shooting for about 2 years. Defensive shooting accuracy didn't diminish. Precision shooting took some time to get back.

Similarly, this would be my response also. ^^^^^

I will add that injuries and surgeries changed the dynamics of my shooting - I will not bore you with details, but I will say one must adapt to one’s condition.
When returning to shooting, I was not be as accurate, but my accuracy was adequate to stop a threat.

 

[C-grunt]

I've had 3 incidents in my career where I was out of commission for a long time. A knee surgery, a hand surgery, and kidney cancer/surgery.

With my knee surgery i was off the rifle range for a full year. I was able to get into the handgun range a few times. On my 10 hour rifle recertification class I shot an expert score off the bat. I was definitely slower and my accuracy wasn't as good, but I still got the job done. Would the added time here and there have gotten me killed in the real gunfight? Maybe. But the bad guy better have been on his game that day too.

I had the same experience with my rifle after my cancer incident. During that time I was basically assigned to the handgun range at work, so my handgun shooting probably got better during that timeframe.

With my hand surgery i as able to get a lot more weak hand practice in than I normally would have done. At the end of that I had the same experience that I had with the rifle. Performance deteriorated a bit, but still well above average and nowhere near a new shooter.

I work with a few former professional athletes. They've been out of the game for years, but will still absolutely destroy the average person in their sport.

 

[Seedy Character]

I SHOT Cowboy Action. Got the Gates planned virus. Spent 7 weeks in the hospital. Another 4 months hooked to O2 concentrator. Then 8 months dragging an O2 bottle, when I could get out of the house.

First time back to Cowboy Action, times were considerably slower, but accuracy was there. Times improved with each stage, but exhaustion replaced the rust of not practicing.

Digress to "newb" status? No, I don't believe so. Digress? Absolutely.

 

[CapnMac]

From long experience, which predates my mere existence, rifle skills are retained the longest, and handgun skills the least.

Now, "how much" is complicated.

MOA handgun skills (1/4" at 25yd) are very hard to come by, let alone retain. The human body changes with age for a simple enough reason for the changes.

Now, do those skills deteriorate to minute of barn instead of minute of shed? Dunno. Everyone is different.

Like as not, if you train up to 1-2" at 25yd, lack of practice, over a long enough time, will open that up, perhaps to 8 or 10 inches at worst. That's still "on" a COM target, if not very elegantly.

Knowing your "holds" typically does not change. "Flinch" though can creep in, as can anticipation, and the like.

Getting into reduced practice routine can mean having to learn whether you "slice" or "hook" as it were.

The good news is that gettign a practice session in can "reset the clock" on the skill level.

 

[Slamfire]

Tell you what, shot a 200 yard Garand match this weekend. First Highpower match of the year, and had last shot the Garand, or any other rifle in competition, since Nov. In terms of competitive shooting, a 717 out of 800 points is dismal. I remember 780's when I was shooting two to three times a month. While the ten ring was only occasionally punctured, a human sized target would have contained all shots, except the eights I fired standing. There are levels, and there are levels.

Get back in the batting box and see how many pitches you can hit. Be surprised on how awful you are, though the last time you batted, you thought yourself pretty good. The mind is the supreme egotist while the body below quietly wastes away.

It is important to practice and retain some proficiency. Even with rusty skills, you can still do well.

 

[WYO]

We have a long winter here, and IDPA and Defensive Pistol matches have a multi-month hiatus due to weather. Once they start up again in the spring, pretty much everyone has some cobwebs to shake off. It does not mean that people would be incapable of defending themselves at 20 yards, but they would not be at peak performance.

 

[spudgun]

One problem I've found after taking some time off from competitive pistol is that the conscious mind still thinks I can do stuff at a high rate of speed whilst the body does not agree, resulting in missed shots, bungled reloads, procedural errors, etc, etc etc.

 

[.38 Special]

I've mentioned elsewhere that I lose about 30% of my ability with handguns - both in terms of speed and accuracy - after a few months off, but don't seem to drop below that even after years off. I can get back most of that loss - say, back up to 90% or so - with a week of daily practice. Getting that last 10% requires a great deal of time and effort, and I probably won't ever do it, unless I decide to begin competing again.

Now, I do miss that twenty or thirty percent, but at realistic defensive distances, it's a matter of a couple of inches and fractions of a second. Based on what I've seen of gunfighting, that's unlikely to matter. And hopefully it doesn't sound like bragging, but based on what I've seen at CCW qualifications, even at 70% I'm still doing reasonably well.

Now, I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that my numbers probably apply to experienced handgunners in general. I would be shocked to discover any competent handgunner performing like a "newbie" even after decades of inactivity.

 

[mavracer]

Digress to "newb" status? No, I don't believe so. Digress? Absolutely.

Couldn't say it better

 

[crstrode]

I don't need to have the skills to win a 2700 Bullseye Pistol match to hit a human at 7 yards.

This fellow is correct.
On a similar note, I am actually surprised , if not shocked, at the number of tacticool killing machines that essentially admit that they themselves will hide under their mama's bloomers if a day of range time is skipped.