I enjoy shooting a S&W Model 10-5 .38 Special 4 inch barrel and it's a nice carry gun. My best shooting is single action. Any suggestions for improving shooting the gun double action with big hands. I have added Hogue grips which fit over original factory walnut. I think my problem deals with controlling the spring tension and recoil at the same time.
Taming double action shooting the Model 10
- Thread starter Thomasss
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UncleEd
Member
STOP doing single action, at least for now.
For dry firing:
Place trigger finger well into the the trigger guard
and place finger amid the first joint of the finger on
the trigger.
Now start the double action cycle. DO NOT
hesitate, just keep pulling straight back until
hammer falls. While doing so, aim gun at
a small target. Use one hand or steady gun
with off hand. DO NOT worry that the gun
"wobbles" off your small target. And DON'T
pause by stopping your stroke to adjust
sights back on target.
GET USED to this double action shooting.
Now for live fire:
Repeat what you've practiced in dry firing.
Don't hurry but DON'T PAUSE in stroking
the trigger back. And don't worry if the
sights "wobble" slightly off target. Ideally
the target should be about 4 to 6 yards.
Again, DON'T pause in your DA stroke.
Nice and steady back and back until
"bang!"
Ideally you might be able to find an instructor
who can watch your shooting and make
suggestions.
My being a broken record: Don't pause in
stroking back the trigger. During this training
it's not important that all your shots are in a
very neat cluster. Of course, nice if they are.
For dry firing:
Place trigger finger well into the the trigger guard
and place finger amid the first joint of the finger on
the trigger.
Now start the double action cycle. DO NOT
hesitate, just keep pulling straight back until
hammer falls. While doing so, aim gun at
a small target. Use one hand or steady gun
with off hand. DO NOT worry that the gun
"wobbles" off your small target. And DON'T
pause by stopping your stroke to adjust
sights back on target.
GET USED to this double action shooting.
Now for live fire:
Repeat what you've practiced in dry firing.
Don't hurry but DON'T PAUSE in stroking
the trigger back. And don't worry if the
sights "wobble" slightly off target. Ideally
the target should be about 4 to 6 yards.
Again, DON'T pause in your DA stroke.
Nice and steady back and back until
"bang!"
Ideally you might be able to find an instructor
who can watch your shooting and make
suggestions.
My being a broken record: Don't pause in
stroking back the trigger. During this training
it's not important that all your shots are in a
very neat cluster. Of course, nice if they are.
trackskippy
Member
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I dry fire a 2" Model 10 everyday, DAO. It's the only way to shoot a DA revolver, and once you get used to it, and get your muscle tone up to par, you'll find it very natural and instinctive to shoot that way.
Put your focus on the sights and and holding the alignment and don't worry about the trigger as you stroke it. Once you get your tone where it needs to be, the sights will be rock solid and won't move when the hammer falls.
Put your focus on the sights and and holding the alignment and don't worry about the trigger as you stroke it. Once you get your tone where it needs to be, the sights will be rock solid and won't move when the hammer falls.
Thanks for the suggestions. All my "expert" friends are into semi shooting. After I find the DA control, will it change much with other revolvers? Last year I picked up a .357 Trooper at a great price as a collector's piece. Now I am thinking of shooting that one too, mostly with .38s.
trackskippy
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I doubt youll notice any difference unless maybe theres something mechanically wrong with the trigger, which is pretty rare these days.
I think what you will notice is, you can shoot pretty much anything you pick up with little trouble, and you wont be worrying about, or even thinking about the trigger on what you do. Learning to shoot a revolver DAO, will improve all your shooting across the board.
It will also save you a lot of money wasted on unnecessary trigger jobs.
I think what you will notice is, you can shoot pretty much anything you pick up with little trouble, and you wont be worrying about, or even thinking about the trigger on what you do. Learning to shoot a revolver DAO, will improve all your shooting across the board.
It will also save you a lot of money wasted on unnecessary trigger jobs.
stonebuster
Member
As Uncle Ed said dry fire at home with a smooth continuous trigger pull all the way through the stroke and keep focused on the sights after firing. Trigger pull is more important than trying to eliminate any movement of the sights which is impossible. A firm high grip with your wrist locked. I would practice with one gun using 38s and not 357s which may add a flinch into the mix.
trackskippy
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Sight alignment is the critical part. The rounds go where the sights are aligned.
Once you have good muscle tone, there is very little, if any movement of the sights or alignment as you stroke the trigger.
And you can control the trigger as necessary as you stroke it. You just arent quickly "yanking" it when you think the sights are where you want them, its a smooth pull all the way through. Speed of that stroke may and will vary. But the important thing is, that those sights are properly aligned throughout.
Once you have good muscle tone, there is very little, if any movement of the sights or alignment as you stroke the trigger.
And you can control the trigger as necessary as you stroke it. You just arent quickly "yanking" it when you think the sights are where you want them, its a smooth pull all the way through. Speed of that stroke may and will vary. But the important thing is, that those sights are properly aligned throughout.
Step One: Review the attached You Tube video from Jerry Miculek called How to Shoot a Revolver - Grip and Stance
Step Two - Review Jerry Miculek's video called Advanced Custom Revolver. It may still be available on You Tube and has all you need to know about shooting a revolver.
Do not buy into the recommendation that you must put the furthest crease of your index finger on the trigger. Doing so makes the arc of your trigger finger smaller and often causes the front sight to deflect to the left at the start of the trigger pull and to the right when the hammer falls. I don't know of any competitive revolver shooter who uses this technique and Mr. Miculek specifically recommends against it. Start by putting the pad of your index finger as low as possible on the trigger and smoothly pulling straight through without either jerking or staging the trigger. Adjust the position of your index finger if dry and live fire shows lateral deviation of the front sight during the process.
Work on strenghtening you hand and fingers to improve both your trigger pull and overall control of recoil.
Finally, dry fire practice is very easy with a revolver. Do it a couple of times a week.
Step Two - Review Jerry Miculek's video called Advanced Custom Revolver. It may still be available on You Tube and has all you need to know about shooting a revolver.
Do not buy into the recommendation that you must put the furthest crease of your index finger on the trigger. Doing so makes the arc of your trigger finger smaller and often causes the front sight to deflect to the left at the start of the trigger pull and to the right when the hammer falls. I don't know of any competitive revolver shooter who uses this technique and Mr. Miculek specifically recommends against it. Start by putting the pad of your index finger as low as possible on the trigger and smoothly pulling straight through without either jerking or staging the trigger. Adjust the position of your index finger if dry and live fire shows lateral deviation of the front sight during the process.
Work on strenghtening you hand and fingers to improve both your trigger pull and overall control of recoil.
Finally, dry fire practice is very easy with a revolver. Do it a couple of times a week.
UncleEd
Member
I shoot DAO with both eyes open but I've found
one eye or the other takes over depending which
hand I'm using. It's automatic with me.
Now, I know many will jump all over me for this
but from years of DAO I pretty much automatically
do and know my rear and front sights are
aligned. And within 10 yards or so I look OVER
the sights and not through them. I concentrate
my attention on the target itself.
one eye or the other takes over depending which
hand I'm using. It's automatic with me.
Now, I know many will jump all over me for this
but from years of DAO I pretty much automatically
do and know my rear and front sights are
aligned. And within 10 yards or so I look OVER
the sights and not through them. I concentrate
my attention on the target itself.
Last edited:
J-Bar
Member
I was used to mostly single-action shooting. When trying to learn double-action, my point of impact changed because of poor trigger technique. I felt like I was making progress when my double action groups shrank to about the same size as my single action groups, and the points of impact on the target were the same.
UncleEd
Member
8ring,
A few points I think must be made about what
Jerry Miculek says in the video.
First he must have used the word "competition"
dozens and dozens of times. And his competition
usually involves emptying the gun as fast as
possible against reactive steel. If you notice
on those steel targets, whether single or
multiple, the pattern of hits is widely dispersed.
Is that good? You decide. I'm sure if he slowed
down he'd produce tighter patterns.
Second, he mentions using the pad of his trigger
finger and not the first joint of his trigger finger. He
did not mention he favors the old style triggers with
serrations/checkering--not the modern smooth triggers
which are considered conducive to DAO shooting.
Third, he stresses the isosceles stance. Nothing wrong
with that. But he did not show methods of shooting
well with only one hand which is as likely to happen as
not in a defensive situation. I believe DAO handling
must include training with only one hand.
His methods are great for him but not the end-all for
all shooters. Everything he's done as a "speed"
shooter has been geared to organized competition.
Or so it seems. Or perhaps the video you mentioned
about Advanced Custom Revolver covers some of
the points I've made here.
A few points I think must be made about what
Jerry Miculek says in the video.
First he must have used the word "competition"
dozens and dozens of times. And his competition
usually involves emptying the gun as fast as
possible against reactive steel. If you notice
on those steel targets, whether single or
multiple, the pattern of hits is widely dispersed.
Is that good? You decide. I'm sure if he slowed
down he'd produce tighter patterns.
Second, he mentions using the pad of his trigger
finger and not the first joint of his trigger finger. He
did not mention he favors the old style triggers with
serrations/checkering--not the modern smooth triggers
which are considered conducive to DAO shooting.
Third, he stresses the isosceles stance. Nothing wrong
with that. But he did not show methods of shooting
well with only one hand which is as likely to happen as
not in a defensive situation. I believe DAO handling
must include training with only one hand.
His methods are great for him but not the end-all for
all shooters. Everything he's done as a "speed"
shooter has been geared to organized competition.
Or so it seems. Or perhaps the video you mentioned
about Advanced Custom Revolver covers some of
the points I've made here.
JTQ
Member
Ernest Langdon with a Beretta 92, though it also applies to revolvers - "Fear Not the Double Action Shot"
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
All good suggestions, but try different positions on your trigger with your trigger finger. From tip to pad to first knuckle. See what works for you. Also, try choking up a bit on your grip then lowering your grip a little. Try to find your “sweet spot”.
Most of all, shoot it and shoot it often.
Most of all, shoot it and shoot it often.
Riomouse911
Member
I prefer a high hold when shooting my DA revolvers, and I also find the rubbery Hogue grip excellent for my hands. (Since I find most synthetic grips without soul, most of my lighter kicking revolvers sport wooden grips. )
(L-frame 686+ .357 Mag.)
I try to keep my trigger finger on the pad between the fingertip and first knuckle. (Some smaller frame guns make this a bit difficult, but I try to stay consistent.)
As several have said before; a smooth Double Action pull that goes straight through until the hammer falls is my goal. Focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, trying to keep the sights still and on target until after the hammer falls.
For loads, if I’m not using a rimfire I prefer to start off shooters with a .38 using a consistently accurate Wadcutter load; 2.8 gr Bullseye under a 148 gr Wadcutter. Once they have their shooting down and they’re hovering in the 9-10 ring, I’ll step them up to heavier loads until we get in the +P zone. 3” Model 36 with wadcutters.
If they want to step up to magnums the ladder begins with mid-range loads in the K-frame Model 66..
I’ll stay in this power area until they’re ready for full-house boomers in the 686+.
From magnums spitting flame to the civilized pop from rimfires, I really enjoy shooting revolvers as much as possible. It takes a bit of time to learn, but once you do your shooting satisfaction will increase exponentially.
Stay safe.
)
(L-frame 686+ .357 Mag.)
I try to keep my trigger finger on the pad between the fingertip and first knuckle. (Some smaller frame guns make this a bit difficult, but I try to stay consistent.)
As several have said before; a smooth Double Action pull that goes straight through until the hammer falls is my goal. Focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, trying to keep the sights still and on target until after the hammer falls.
For loads, if I’m not using a rimfire I prefer to start off shooters with a .38 using a consistently accurate Wadcutter load; 2.8 gr Bullseye under a 148 gr Wadcutter. Once they have their shooting down and they’re hovering in the 9-10 ring, I’ll step them up to heavier loads until we get in the +P zone. 3” Model 36 with wadcutters.
If they want to step up to magnums the ladder begins with mid-range loads in the K-frame Model 66..
I’ll stay in this power area until they’re ready for full-house boomers in the 686+.
From magnums spitting flame to the civilized pop from rimfires, I really enjoy shooting revolvers as much as possible. It takes a bit of time to learn, but once you do your shooting satisfaction will increase exponentially.
Stay safe.
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Sistema1927
Member
One thing to keep in mind. Mastering the double-action revolver will help you with all other platforms. Yes, the "reset" is different (full retraction with the revolver vs. varying levels of reset with semi-autos), but the trigger discipline of shooting DA will make you better everywhere else.
Riomouse911
Member
Agree 100%.
A smooth trigger pull is a smooth trigger pull is a smooth trigger pull. The feel may be somewhat different, but the basics are still the same. Stay safe.
Tallball
Member
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I've been shooting revolvers regularly since I was a teen, and today I turned 56.
I only learned to shoot revolvers DAO reasonably well in the past few years.
I practiced DA occasionally when I was young, but not with good technique and not nearly often enough.
Uncle Ed said most of it. The trigger pull should be one smooth complete identical action every time.
Some days I can still keep the sights squarely on target. When my meds are bothering me I shoot when the front sight has wobbled pretty close to the middle of the target.
I've trained myself to keep my eyes on the sights as the round fires. When I didn't focus my eyes on something, the noise and recoil of a heavy caliber would make me close them for a brief moment.
Mixing a piece of fired brass into the cylinder from time to time helped me with my tendency to flinch.
I could get away with my poor technique with long-barreled revolvers shooting SA, but my poor DA shooting exposed me.
Now that my DA shooting has gotten to be somewhat respectable, I carry a DAO revolver, or bob the hammer spur if it's DA/SA.
I only learned to shoot revolvers DAO reasonably well in the past few years.
I practiced DA occasionally when I was young, but not with good technique and not nearly often enough.
Uncle Ed said most of it. The trigger pull should be one smooth complete identical action every time.
Some days I can still keep the sights squarely on target. When my meds are bothering me I shoot when the front sight has wobbled pretty close to the middle of the target.
I've trained myself to keep my eyes on the sights as the round fires. When I didn't focus my eyes on something, the noise and recoil of a heavy caliber would make me close them for a brief moment.
Mixing a piece of fired brass into the cylinder from time to time helped me with my tendency to flinch.
I could get away with my poor technique with long-barreled revolvers shooting SA, but my poor DA shooting exposed me.
Now that my DA shooting has gotten to be somewhat respectable, I carry a DAO revolver, or bob the hammer spur if it's DA/SA.
While dry firing, I've noticed finding a comfortable trigger/finger placement allows me to get the rest of my hand high into the revolver grip and web of my hand. That helps a lot with rebound control and keeping the sights on target. Can't wait to try that at the range.
I have only a very slightly different take:
1. Breathe. Out then stop.
2. Relax. Just relax and concentrate on what you're doing. Don't relax so much you drop the weapon.
3. Aim. Acquire a proper sight picture. Don't think you can hold it perfectly, you can't. But focus on sight alignment, not trying to stop wobble.
4. Slack. Take up any trigger slack.
5. Stop. Just for an instant after the slack is taken up.
6. Squeeze. As others have said, one smooth continuous motion. You should be surprised when the weapon fires.
This is how I shoot rifles, pistols and revolvers. Works for me since I was taught in 1970 at Edson Range.
Agree with a high grip for most DA shooting.
1. Breathe. Out then stop.
2. Relax. Just relax and concentrate on what you're doing. Don't relax so much you drop the weapon.
3. Aim. Acquire a proper sight picture. Don't think you can hold it perfectly, you can't. But focus on sight alignment, not trying to stop wobble.
4. Slack. Take up any trigger slack.
5. Stop. Just for an instant after the slack is taken up.
6. Squeeze. As others have said, one smooth continuous motion. You should be surprised when the weapon fires.
This is how I shoot rifles, pistols and revolvers. Works for me since I was taught in 1970 at Edson Range.
Agree with a high grip for most DA shooting.
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Bigger grips help. I have small hands and the factory walnut grips makes the gun want to roll around when I handle it.
Go slow. Get six snap caps and put them in the cylinder. Put a coin on the top strap and while aiming the sight at a target, squeeze the trigger in the DA mode until the hammer drops. The coin should remain on the top strap. Do this a lot. Then, ball and dummy on the range.
I love DA revolver shooting and would shoot so fast the frame was hot when I reloaded. Those were the days when we had open range and we (cops) got to shoot as much department ammo as we wanted. I took full advantage of it.
Go slow. Get six snap caps and put them in the cylinder. Put a coin on the top strap and while aiming the sight at a target, squeeze the trigger in the DA mode until the hammer drops. The coin should remain on the top strap. Do this a lot. Then, ball and dummy on the range.
I love DA revolver shooting and would shoot so fast the frame was hot when I reloaded. Those were the days when we had open range and we (cops) got to shoot as much department ammo as we wanted. I took full advantage of it.
wiscoaster
Member
Ditto that. There's nothing wrong with the S&W 10's DA trigger; in fact it's one of the best revolver-wise. It's just getting used to it via practice, same as you do with any other gun.
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