Target Rifle
- Thread starter Mr. D
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williamthedog
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OLYMPUS,
QUOTE:
Makes me smile knowing that Marine Corps snipers aren't carrying Savages....but Remington 700s.:UNQUOTE
THIS IS WHAT MARINE CORPS SNIPERS USE
MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP PENDLETON, CA -- Marine snipers have found a new best friend. The Marine Corps has upgraded the old sniper rifle, the M-40A1, replacing it with a new and improved rifle.
The M-40A3 will fully replace the M-40A1 by October 2004, said Staff Sgt. Jesse L. Bier, the project and field officer with 1st Marine Division.
"Because of the fact only 30 rifles are produced every month, and with a limited amount of scopes, it'll take a while to fully replace the old rifle," Bier said.
NO MENTION OF 700'S ACCORDING TO THE
U.S. MILITARY WEBSITE
QUOTE:
Makes me smile knowing that Marine Corps snipers aren't carrying Savages....but Remington 700s.:UNQUOTE
THIS IS WHAT MARINE CORPS SNIPERS USE
MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP PENDLETON, CA -- Marine snipers have found a new best friend. The Marine Corps has upgraded the old sniper rifle, the M-40A1, replacing it with a new and improved rifle.
The M-40A3 will fully replace the M-40A1 by October 2004, said Staff Sgt. Jesse L. Bier, the project and field officer with 1st Marine Division.
"Because of the fact only 30 rifles are produced every month, and with a limited amount of scopes, it'll take a while to fully replace the old rifle," Bier said.
NO MENTION OF 700'S ACCORDING TO THE
U.S. MILITARY WEBSITE
bogie
Member
By the time you spend the money to replace the crap that you'll throw away on a "new" rifle, you can buy a used custom-worked job... Dude, PM me, and I'll intro you to Bob... You're probably within semi-reasonable driving distance - Does Jersey border PA?
Yes it does. Most of Jersey is within 3-4 hours of where we live. To tell you the truth, I'm not quite ready to buy - I was just trying to decide on a rifle so I could keep my eyes open. However, when I am ready, I'll contact you and maybe we can get together.
~Dale
~Dale
Olympus
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Do Your Research...
Williamthedog...you might want to do your research instead of just copying and pasting from websites without knowing what you're talking about.
The M40A3 is the second variant of the orginal M40 rifle introduced in 1966. The M40A1 was the first variant. The M40A3 is just an upgraded version of the A1. So instead of trashing the old A1s, they are upgrading them to the A3 models.
If you knew anything at all about what you were talking about, you would know that the basic platform for the M40 (and all variants thereafter) is a Remington 700. The 700s are fully customized by marine gunsmiths at Quantico, VA.
Maybe you should know what you're talking about before you tell someone else that THEY don't know what THEY'RE talking about!
Williamthedog...you might want to do your research instead of just copying and pasting from websites without knowing what you're talking about.
The M40A3 is the second variant of the orginal M40 rifle introduced in 1966. The M40A1 was the first variant. The M40A3 is just an upgraded version of the A1. So instead of trashing the old A1s, they are upgrading them to the A3 models.
If you knew anything at all about what you were talking about, you would know that the basic platform for the M40 (and all variants thereafter) is a Remington 700. The 700s are fully customized by marine gunsmiths at Quantico, VA.
Maybe you should know what you're talking about before you tell someone else that THEY don't know what THEY'RE talking about!
skinewmexico
Member
Funny, I always thought the Marines machined their own actions, instead of buying Remingtons. But since Olympus is so emotionally invested in the superiority of Remington, I won't say that out loud.
bogie
Member
No, marines do not make their own actions. They call Remington, and tell them to send them over. For the shooting team stuff, they may stick 'em in a lathe and blueprint them.
Here's what I'd do for a - new- precision rifle (non-benchrest).
One of Jerry Stiller's Predator actions (a copy of Remington 700, with better precision). .473 boltface, small firing pin.
Shilen Select Match barrel, in either 6mm or 6.5mm.
Jewell or Shilen trigger.
McMillan stock (of your choice).
Leupold QRW rings and bases.
Leupold Vari-whatever 4-14 scope.
I'd get Tom Meredith to do the stockwork (inletting, bedding, etc.) and Billy Stevens to chamber it, probably in 6/284 or 6.5/284, depending on which barrel I got.
Here's what I'd do for a - new- precision rifle (non-benchrest).
One of Jerry Stiller's Predator actions (a copy of Remington 700, with better precision). .473 boltface, small firing pin.
Shilen Select Match barrel, in either 6mm or 6.5mm.
Jewell or Shilen trigger.
McMillan stock (of your choice).
Leupold QRW rings and bases.
Leupold Vari-whatever 4-14 scope.
I'd get Tom Meredith to do the stockwork (inletting, bedding, etc.) and Billy Stevens to chamber it, probably in 6/284 or 6.5/284, depending on which barrel I got.
You are right about one thing, that is certainly funny.:banghead:
I don't know him, so I can't comment on the extent of his love for Remingtons, but it is not very hard to prove that marines don't machine their own actions for their sniper rifles, and in response to the other poster, an M40 is based on the Remington 700(as is the Army's M24.) Again, you don't exactly need a top secret security clearance to find that data.
Bogie. What's a gun like that going to cost? Mostly curious, I already know it is out of my price range, but I would assume $5k?
For Mr. D...it all depends on what you are looking for. You said informal comp. with friends. Well, if everyone has $500 guns topped with $200 scopes, yeah you probably won't have much of a problem just picking up a hunting rifle and tweaking it.
I have an informal contest this weekend. My friend just got a M44 and we are going to see who can shoot their M44 better. We'll probbaly have 3-5" groups but it is a pretty apples-apples contest (yeah, $500 rifles are out of my price range too).
For Mr. D...it all depends on what you are looking for. You said informal comp. with friends. Well, if everyone has $500 guns topped with $200 scopes, yeah you probably won't have much of a problem just picking up a hunting rifle and tweaking it.
I have an informal contest this weekend. My friend just got a M44 and we are going to see who can shoot their M44 better. We'll probbaly have 3-5" groups but it is a pretty apples-apples contest (yeah, $500 rifles are out of my price range too).
Olympus
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I'm not emotionally invested in anything. It's just a personal pet peeve when retards like skinewmexico and williamthedog act talk like they know something that they obviously have no clue about. I see some others have already beat me to the punch calling B.S. on what they had to say. Machine their own actions....what a retard. Do some research before you start talking to people who know more than you.
BigGunsMoreFun
Member
Pick up an old Swedish Mauser
Pick up an old Swedish Mauser in 6.5mm. It's an excellent gun and relatively cheap. Ammo is easy to come by and easy to reload. 300 yards is a walk in the park for that rifle. I still see them at gun shows in very good condition for around $250.
Molon Labe,
Joe
Pick up an old Swedish Mauser in 6.5mm. It's an excellent gun and relatively cheap. Ammo is easy to come by and easy to reload. 300 yards is a walk in the park for that rifle. I still see them at gun shows in very good condition for around $250.
Molon Labe,
Joe
Olympus
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Ah....the sweet silence after someone has been proven an idiot!
But back to the topic at hand. If you got about a $500 limit, you're really not bound by much except the high end rifles. Another option would be to hit up a gunshow and look for an older Winchester Model 70. Those were good shooters back in the day. I've actually been looking to find one too.
But back to the topic at hand. If you got about a $500 limit, you're really not bound by much except the high end rifles. Another option would be to hit up a gunshow and look for an older Winchester Model 70. Those were good shooters back in the day. I've actually been looking to find one too.
skinewmexico
Member
Like is said, I THOUGHT the military machined their own receivers. I still think I saw an article once about how one branch machined their own, based on a Rem 700. But I guess not. I was wrong, and I guess I'm a retard. Still not a kool-aid drinker though.
Ridgerunner665
Member
223 Remington.
An SPS Tactical can be had for around $600 off Gunbroker.
An SPS Tactical can be had for around $600 off Gunbroker.
bogie
Member
One of Jerry Stiller's Predator actions $750
http://www.viperactions.com/actions/predator_detail.htm
Shilen Select Match barrel, in either 6mm or 6.5mm. $330
Jewell or Shilen trigger. $200
McMillan stock (of your choice). $470
Leupold QRW rings and bases. $100
Leupold Vari-whatever 4-14 scope. I don't remember
Get McM to do the stockwork inletting, bedding, etc.
and Billy Stevens to chamber it, probably in 6/284 or 6.5/284, depending on which barrel I got. Figure $650 or less, since he's already going to be working with a trued action.
Shawnee
member
Hi Mr. D...
Considering the shooting you described in your original post, there are scads of used rifles out there that will do what you want and still be within your $500 price tag. Good ones to look at will be older Remington 700ADL or 700BDL rifles. Nice thing about them is you don't need heavier bullets or toys to hang on them. They just shoot - very well. I've seen a boatload of plain-Jane 700ADLs that shot like lasers.
I would suggest .222 Rem., the .223 or the 22/250, and learn how to dope the breeezes. I dearly love .243s - and especially my VLS - but they would be pointlessly expensive to burn at targets and you would still have to be able to dope winds anyway.
For the shooting you were talking about in your original post - I would offer the thought that the deciding factor is probably going to be the scope rather than the rifle model or twist rate, extra-heavy bullets or aftermarket hub caps.
Something like a 4x12x40 (or 42) with good lenses will beat a cheap 6x18 to pieces at 300yds. However - a 6x18x40 (or 42) with good lenses will be likely make you The Man to Beat regardless of whether you spent $250 or $500 for the rifle.
Local opinion may vary.
Good Luck !
Considering the shooting you described in your original post, there are scads of used rifles out there that will do what you want and still be within your $500 price tag. Good ones to look at will be older Remington 700ADL or 700BDL rifles. Nice thing about them is you don't need heavier bullets or toys to hang on them. They just shoot - very well. I've seen a boatload of plain-Jane 700ADLs that shot like lasers.
I would suggest .222 Rem., the .223 or the 22/250, and learn how to dope the breeezes. I dearly love .243s - and especially my VLS - but they would be pointlessly expensive to burn at targets and you would still have to be able to dope winds anyway.
For the shooting you were talking about in your original post - I would offer the thought that the deciding factor is probably going to be the scope rather than the rifle model or twist rate, extra-heavy bullets or aftermarket hub caps.
Something like a 4x12x40 (or 42) with good lenses will beat a cheap 6x18 to pieces at 300yds. However - a 6x18x40 (or 42) with good lenses will be likely make you The Man to Beat regardless of whether you spent $250 or $500 for the rifle.
Local opinion may vary.
Good Luck !
bogie
Member
Seriously, he can get 'hold of a Deuce that's already had all the loving detail stuff done to it, but is 20-30 years old, and doesn't have a fancy paint job... Just gotta know where to look... BTW, in my life, I've been privileged to meet Mike Walker (the guy who invented the 700 and the Deuce), and both Palmisano and Pindell...
Wow, you guys are the ones to go to!
I was up at Cabela's on Saturday, and they had a bunch of Rem 700's on their used rack for $400-$500. Now, most of those were 30-06, so I don't know if that makes a difference, but it seems that that might be the way to go for me.
Shawnee,
Thanks for the advice on a scope.
~Dale
I was up at Cabela's on Saturday, and they had a bunch of Rem 700's on their used rack for $400-$500. Now, most of those were 30-06, so I don't know if that makes a difference, but it seems that that might be the way to go for me.
Shawnee,
Thanks for the advice on a scope.
~Dale
I believe on this forum there are far more Savage kool-aid drinkers. Call me what you like but we don't all choose to shoot $300 rifles and then brag about how great they are. How can you brag about not being a Remmy fan when you have just admitted you didn't even know the military has been using them for the last 40 years?
I'll put my senior member hat on for a second and remind everyone that personal attacks are very non-High Road. This thread has some good discussion going on, there is some good info here for both a budget (sub-$1000) target setup and a custom $3-5k target setup.
The biggest downside I see to .30-'06 is the cost to shoot (vs. 223), but it would be cheaper for commercial ammo than any of the 6mm rounds I am fairly positive of that.
Now if you go out and spend $200 on a Lee single stage and all the dies, accesories and components and your cost per shot just went down to about $0.30. Considering that you will be making ammo equivalent in quality to the $1/shot stuff and it will be tuned to your rifle, the $200 initial investment pays for itself VERY quickly.
Have to agree that cheap gun, nice scope beats a nice gun with a cheap scope. After missing a deer at 50 yards with my slug gun and a cheap scope (zero changed by more than a foot!!!) I vowed to never buy a cheap scope again.
Bogie, that rifle works out to be around $3,000. That is actually quite a bit less than I thought it would be. Topped with some nice glass and it is probably under $4k. So far outside what I currently need...I say that now...I also said I would never reload for milsurps...
The biggest downside I see to .30-'06 is the cost to shoot (vs. 223), but it would be cheaper for commercial ammo than any of the 6mm rounds I am fairly positive of that.
Now if you go out and spend $200 on a Lee single stage and all the dies, accesories and components and your cost per shot just went down to about $0.30. Considering that you will be making ammo equivalent in quality to the $1/shot stuff and it will be tuned to your rifle, the $200 initial investment pays for itself VERY quickly.
Have to agree that cheap gun, nice scope beats a nice gun with a cheap scope. After missing a deer at 50 yards with my slug gun and a cheap scope (zero changed by more than a foot!!!) I vowed to never buy a cheap scope again.
Bogie, that rifle works out to be around $3,000. That is actually quite a bit less than I thought it would be. Topped with some nice glass and it is probably under $4k. So far outside what I currently need...I say that now...I also said I would never reload for milsurps...
Olympus
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Again, skinewmexico seems to be talking about things he has no clue about. Me being a kool aid drinker? I can show many reputable resources on the benefits of the Rem 700. I don't just do it because I've heard others do it. Just keep talking...you're giving everyone here a good laugh!
As for the Savage remark, I just like to give them a hard way to go. I've already said that Savage makes great rifles. Some people like Fords and some Chevys. I'm glad to see that everyone else on here is mature enough to see that I wasn't talking trash about their rifles.
As for Mr. D, I'm a big fan of Cabela's, but I don't know that I would buy one of their used rifles off of the rack. They let kids pick those things up and they knock them around, hit other rifles with them, and even I'm seem them dropped. They have a pretty high markup on their guns too. I'd still recommend hitting a gun show. If you don't have a lot of experience with guns then bring a friend who does. Your original post said that you want to do some competitions shooting with your friends, correct? I don't know if money is a concern or if you plan on shooting a lot, but .30-06 isn't going to be as cheap to shoot as say a .223. I used to do a little of that type of shooting with some of my friends. The ones that had .308s would lose a little accuracy towards the end because the recoil was beginning to take it's toll. You can put a .223 and get it set up on some bags with the hairs on the X and pretty much hold it there all day long. .223 ammo is considerable cheaper than .30-06 and you can get some decent bulk ammo to shoot when you're just having fun. But I'm not in your shoes, so these are just my recommendations. When it comes down to it, you should do whatever feels the best to you.
As for the Savage remark, I just like to give them a hard way to go. I've already said that Savage makes great rifles. Some people like Fords and some Chevys. I'm glad to see that everyone else on here is mature enough to see that I wasn't talking trash about their rifles.
As for Mr. D, I'm a big fan of Cabela's, but I don't know that I would buy one of their used rifles off of the rack. They let kids pick those things up and they knock them around, hit other rifles with them, and even I'm seem them dropped. They have a pretty high markup on their guns too. I'd still recommend hitting a gun show. If you don't have a lot of experience with guns then bring a friend who does. Your original post said that you want to do some competitions shooting with your friends, correct? I don't know if money is a concern or if you plan on shooting a lot, but .30-06 isn't going to be as cheap to shoot as say a .223. I used to do a little of that type of shooting with some of my friends. The ones that had .308s would lose a little accuracy towards the end because the recoil was beginning to take it's toll. You can put a .223 and get it set up on some bags with the hairs on the X and pretty much hold it there all day long. .223 ammo is considerable cheaper than .30-06 and you can get some decent bulk ammo to shoot when you're just having fun. But I'm not in your shoes, so these are just my recommendations. When it comes down to it, you should do whatever feels the best to you.
Shawnee
member
Every poster has made some assumptions - the ones I've made are just that:
1. The OP isn't into spending money for "tinker-toy" add-ons.
2. The OP isn't looking to bump his $500 budget by a factor of 4.
3. The OP isn't out to set any World, National or State record.
4. The OP wants mostly to simply have some target fun with his buds and win a Pepsi every once in a while.
5. The OP isn't too interested in wasting money in the process.
6. The OP may want to sell the rifle some day and would prefer to have a wider range of potential customers than just those who live and breath the Ultra-Tiny-Hole Religion.
Those are the assumptions my comments are based on. If they're wrong - the OP can simply ignore them.
1. The OP isn't into spending money for "tinker-toy" add-ons.
2. The OP isn't looking to bump his $500 budget by a factor of 4.
3. The OP isn't out to set any World, National or State record.
4. The OP wants mostly to simply have some target fun with his buds and win a Pepsi every once in a while.
5. The OP isn't too interested in wasting money in the process.
6. The OP may want to sell the rifle some day and would prefer to have a wider range of potential customers than just those who live and breath the Ultra-Tiny-Hole Religion.
Those are the assumptions my comments are based on. If they're wrong - the OP can simply ignore them.
Shawnee, that's pretty much it - good job!
Olympus, I would never buy used from Cabela's, mainly because their price on used is ridiculous! I've seen them price a used Ruger MkII higher than equivalent new MKIII's in the next case over. I just mentioned that because I noticed it while I was there and it did seem that the Rem 700 was very common among their collection of used. Because of that, I was assuming that a 700 is going to be easy to buy used. Of course, I would buy elsewhere. I would prefer .223 for several reasons. One is recoil, another is price. Also, I intend this rifle to be one of my two primary hunting/fun rifles - the other being a Mini-14. While not necessary, it would be handy for my two most-used rifles to be in the same caliber, if that is practical. However, that's sort of a minor point.
~Dale
Olympus, I would never buy used from Cabela's, mainly because their price on used is ridiculous! I've seen them price a used Ruger MkII higher than equivalent new MKIII's in the next case over. I just mentioned that because I noticed it while I was there and it did seem that the Rem 700 was very common among their collection of used. Because of that, I was assuming that a 700 is going to be easy to buy used. Of course, I would buy elsewhere. I would prefer .223 for several reasons. One is recoil, another is price. Also, I intend this rifle to be one of my two primary hunting/fun rifles - the other being a Mini-14. While not necessary, it would be handy for my two most-used rifles to be in the same caliber, if that is practical. However, that's sort of a minor point.
~Dale
shooting4life
Member
Pickup a savage in 204 or 223 and get some decent glass like 3200 and spend the rest on ammo. The most important thing needed to beat your friends will be practice and hand loads.
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