highorder
Member
Not even close. .410 slugs only weigh 100ish grains.
Taurus Judge or Public defender. opinions??
- Thread starter Blues Brother
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Not even close. .410 slugs only weigh 100ish grains.
000 buckshot is a very effective killer. I have seen it go thru a deer on a broadside shot. Lotsa dead soldiers/people in 19th century from 36 cal round balls. Whether its from a FED 10ga shotshell w/18 pellets or a 12ga that has 'only' 8 balls or a 410 bore they are deadly and will KILL you
Just to clarify what I said earlier, some Judge owners have noticed that a factory 1/4 oz (~109 grain) .410 slug at 1775 fps out of a long barrel has nearly the same muzzle energy as a typical, lightly-loaded factory .44 Magnum (for whatever that's worth). I told them that out of a 3" barrel on a Judge they'd get only about 1125 fps (according to some chronograph measurements), which has no more energy than a .45 LC and would be significantly outperformed by the latter when using a JHP such as Gold Dot (one of the few available in this caliber, but it's a good one).
These pellets certainly are deadly, but .410 bore is weak on the Judge because most have 3" barrels. Spherical balls have low sectional density and need velocity to penetrate sufficiently. The questions are whether 000 buckshot will do so at about 800 fps and whether the end result would be preferable to .45 LC JHP. With regular .410 shotshells, I would say maybe only from near point-blank range because of outrageously poor patterning, although admittedly the new loads designed specifically for this gun improve the patterning considerably.
Snakepit
Member
I once knew a couple of great looking twin girls with the last name of Judge. You might be interested in what the Judges have under their robes.
anetsprungen
Member
I like the Judge!
I have read many messages since buying my Judge one year ago. Apparently, those who have not used it as a personal defense gun only have what others have said about it. All the talk about "outrageously poor patterning", "insufficient penetration", "muzzle energy", etc. are missing the point. Does it work for your intended purpose?
For me, it certainly does. For me, real distance is 5-7 feet. Real examples are walking into a shed or barn, or rounding the corner of a building, into the path of a wild dog, coyote, raccoon and putting it down immediately. Sure, the gun is not intended for CCW. It is designed to be carried openly, as any other farm tool.
For those of us who are working when we encounter wild animals in and around the farm, I believe the Judge, as a tool, serves a valuable purpose, especially with alternating rounds, when dealing with pests and varmints.
And with the new Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 ammunition coming out soon, I think they will be better. Apparently, the shotgun ammunition makers don't think much of making 2 1/2 in., .410 gauge shot shells in the buckshot style such as #4 buck, which in my opinion, would be a better round, but I will take what I can get. I look forward to trying the new rounds with 3 disc pellets backed by 12 BBs.
I, for one, LIKE the JUDGE. It is comfortable, handles well, and after much searching, fits nicely in a chest holster. I've dispatched several varmints with it in the last year, three raccoons and a opossum. I almost took out the neighbor's dog who was threatening me, but the neighbor was calling and finally the dog ran home. He hasn't been back since, that I can tell. But if he comes at me again, I won't hesitate the next time.
Roy
I have read many messages since buying my Judge one year ago. Apparently, those who have not used it as a personal defense gun only have what others have said about it. All the talk about "outrageously poor patterning", "insufficient penetration", "muzzle energy", etc. are missing the point. Does it work for your intended purpose?
For me, it certainly does. For me, real distance is 5-7 feet. Real examples are walking into a shed or barn, or rounding the corner of a building, into the path of a wild dog, coyote, raccoon and putting it down immediately. Sure, the gun is not intended for CCW. It is designed to be carried openly, as any other farm tool.
For those of us who are working when we encounter wild animals in and around the farm, I believe the Judge, as a tool, serves a valuable purpose, especially with alternating rounds, when dealing with pests and varmints.
And with the new Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 ammunition coming out soon, I think they will be better. Apparently, the shotgun ammunition makers don't think much of making 2 1/2 in., .410 gauge shot shells in the buckshot style such as #4 buck, which in my opinion, would be a better round, but I will take what I can get. I look forward to trying the new rounds with 3 disc pellets backed by 12 BBs.
I, for one, LIKE the JUDGE. It is comfortable, handles well, and after much searching, fits nicely in a chest holster. I've dispatched several varmints with it in the last year, three raccoons and a opossum. I almost took out the neighbor's dog who was threatening me, but the neighbor was calling and finally the dog ran home. He hasn't been back since, that I can tell. But if he comes at me again, I won't hesitate the next time.
Roy
Gryffydd
Member
Roy, I'm glad the Judge works for you. That's all that really matters. However, how is it that it performs those listed duties any better than a normal revolver? Seems like a little .38 would do just fine for dispatching pests. What loads are you using?
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Exactly--nobody has claimed that the Judge does not work, or even that it's not a well made gun, but what's really so special about it that justifies the drawbacks of its necessarily compromised design?
If that's all you care about, then fine, but I think the point is figuring out whether it's better at various purposes than a regular revolver would be, and most of us are unconvinced.
A regular revolver also works at 5-7 feet (and typically at much longer distances in addition), in sheds and barns, around corners, and against the various varmints you listed. If the Judge were as effective as a full-size shotgun, then nobody would question it, but I seriously doubt it.
What can it do better than a regular revolver? There are shotshells available in standard handgun calibers that work just fine on small pests and snakes, too--being able to shoot .410 is not necessary to get this capability. If the Judge has no advantages and only drawbacks, even if it still works, then what is so great about it?
#4 buck out of a 3-4" barrel will have somewhat shallow penetration. I know you don't care about that, but many other people do. It's a devastating load for a 12-gauge shotgun, but the Judge is only a little .410 handgun.
This seems like a modern-day equivalent of loading dimes in a shotshell. I think you're right that standard buckshot would be more effective, which only goes to show that the new round is all hype, much like the Judge itself. Sorry, while it's kind of a cool concept in theory, I just can't buy into it.
I consider the firearms I own to be top shelf and have always considered the Taurus Brand a low quality, cheap, saturday night special kind of guns.
I bought a ranch in South Texas about 5 years ago as a weekend getaway. It was infested with rattlesnakes. Encounters used to be almost a daily encounter and I carried a 12 gauge shotgun with me all the time which was very inconvienent and a general pain in the butt.
I saw the Judge as a solution to my problem. Did my research and pretty much it was bad mouthed all over the internet. I decided to get one anyway because I did not see how it could fail as a snake gun.
The Taurus Judge is the PERFECT snake gun with #9 shot, period. It serves that purpose perfectly and I could not be happier 32 dead rattlesnakes later.
I usually have friends out on Sundays and we shoot skeet and target practice. It wasn't long before I tried out the .45 LC and was surprised it was adequate. Nothing to write home about but certainly accurate enough to do the job within reasonable distances. Soon after that, we started shooting skeet with it, my buddies bought Judges for themselves, and the Judge is now one of the most shot firearms I own.
It has never had any failure of any kind.
I recently moved into a small townhouse while in the city for the working week days. After numerous unscientific tests, my conclusion is that the Judge would be an excellent SD weapon in the thin-walled townhouse as the furthest shot possible inside is 25 feet. I bought a snubby Judge in 3" for night stand duty and I feel confident it is up to the task with ooo buck but I am going to start reloading and experiement with #1 through #4 buckshot because I think they would be better suited for Townhouse duty.
I have other better suited SD guns available that I would go to given the time. But if I have to jump from bed and immediately respond to an intrusion, the Judge is right there ready to go.
The Judge has proven to be a useful tool for me. It is not a gun I admire for its quality and beauty or for its tack driving accuracy. It is a gun that gets no respect from me but gets lots of use.
I bought a ranch in South Texas about 5 years ago as a weekend getaway. It was infested with rattlesnakes. Encounters used to be almost a daily encounter and I carried a 12 gauge shotgun with me all the time which was very inconvienent and a general pain in the butt.
I saw the Judge as a solution to my problem. Did my research and pretty much it was bad mouthed all over the internet. I decided to get one anyway because I did not see how it could fail as a snake gun.
The Taurus Judge is the PERFECT snake gun with #9 shot, period. It serves that purpose perfectly and I could not be happier 32 dead rattlesnakes later.
I usually have friends out on Sundays and we shoot skeet and target practice. It wasn't long before I tried out the .45 LC and was surprised it was adequate. Nothing to write home about but certainly accurate enough to do the job within reasonable distances. Soon after that, we started shooting skeet with it, my buddies bought Judges for themselves, and the Judge is now one of the most shot firearms I own.
It has never had any failure of any kind.
I recently moved into a small townhouse while in the city for the working week days. After numerous unscientific tests, my conclusion is that the Judge would be an excellent SD weapon in the thin-walled townhouse as the furthest shot possible inside is 25 feet. I bought a snubby Judge in 3" for night stand duty and I feel confident it is up to the task with ooo buck but I am going to start reloading and experiement with #1 through #4 buckshot because I think they would be better suited for Townhouse duty.
I have other better suited SD guns available that I would go to given the time. But if I have to jump from bed and immediately respond to an intrusion, the Judge is right there ready to go.
The Judge has proven to be a useful tool for me. It is not a gun I admire for its quality and beauty or for its tack driving accuracy. It is a gun that gets no respect from me but gets lots of use.
anetsprungen
Member
BluesBrother,
Intermedia Outdoors Inc. published "Taurus 2010". I picked up my copy in December 2009 at a local supermarket. It provides some good background information on the Tracker, Judge and Public Defender if you want to learn more about them. However, the one thing the magazine does not mention, is why there is such a long backlog, except to say part of the process of making them involves hands-on craftsmanship.
As has been stipulated by many posters, the .410/.45 Colt handgun is not for everybody, but it does have a place in my collection. I purchased mine as a tool to perform a job and it does that job well.
I believe the advantage it has over other revolver shot shells is the variety of ammunition. While I have not researched it, I have never heard of various shot loads available in say, the .44 mag shotshells. And according to the article, the goal is dispersal, not a cluster.
Gryffydd,
I started with #8 shot & .45 Colt, switched to slugs, then switched to #4 shot and am looking to switch to #00 or #000 Buck for the first three chambers and .45 Colt for the remainder.
Roy
Intermedia Outdoors Inc. published "Taurus 2010". I picked up my copy in December 2009 at a local supermarket. It provides some good background information on the Tracker, Judge and Public Defender if you want to learn more about them. However, the one thing the magazine does not mention, is why there is such a long backlog, except to say part of the process of making them involves hands-on craftsmanship.
As has been stipulated by many posters, the .410/.45 Colt handgun is not for everybody, but it does have a place in my collection. I purchased mine as a tool to perform a job and it does that job well.
I believe the advantage it has over other revolver shot shells is the variety of ammunition. While I have not researched it, I have never heard of various shot loads available in say, the .44 mag shotshells. And according to the article, the goal is dispersal, not a cluster.
Gryffydd,
I started with #8 shot & .45 Colt, switched to slugs, then switched to #4 shot and am looking to switch to #00 or #000 Buck for the first three chambers and .45 Colt for the remainder.
Roy
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