Teens lucky BB gun victim didn't shoot back.

[S&W620]

lloydkristmas, 14 year olds don't contribute anything to society because they are kids. What exactly do you expect them to contribute? Should they have full time jobs and being paying their own bills?

Stereotyping "most kids today" by saying all they do is play video games gets you about as far as any other stereotype. If all stereotypes were true, most of us would be "hillbillies" because we are gun enthusiasts.

What if, what if, what if. These kids aren't (at least they haven't been reported thus far to be) gangbangers, so what does one scenario have to do with the other? Absolutely nothing. You fellas can create any "what if" scenario you like, none of them apply to what ACTUALLY happened.

 

[Noxx]

Stretchman, you can't be serious. You honestly want to try a 14 year old kid as an adult and charge him with 2 felonies for shooting someone with a BB gun?

Yup. Or should we wait until he graduates to raping someone elses 15yr old daughter?

That's a bit much don't you think?

Nope.

 

[rdhood]

Don't worry. In two years, they'll be driving! Then, they will be shooting people with BB guns and driving away!

When they shot the guy in the neck with the BB gun... I was willing to let them go on community service. It was a child's prank that deserved a slap on the wrist. But:

One of the teens whirled around and pulled up his shirt to reveal a black and silver gun, then opened fire again as Breczinski advanced.

That crossed over the line. That went from a prank to a premeditated attempt to do physical injury. That kid deserves a cell with Bubba.

 

[cpttango30]

They were man enough to point a firearm at a person and pull the trigger. So why are they not man enough to serve out the punishment that comes with the crime?

This is why kids do these stupid things now days. They are man enough to do the crime but they are poor little kids when it comes time to pay the pipper.

If I would have pulled this stunt as a kid I would have never touched another firearm ever. This is after I healed up from the azz whooping i would have taken.

 

[MrPeter]

Am I the only one who feels these kids should be prosecuted, and the parents should be in the cell next to them?

 

[Noxx]

All I know for sure, is that my old man would have knocked my a** up and down the back yard until he wore himself out.

But what do I know, I'm the sort of punk who still calls little old ladies ma'am and holds the door at the mini-mart.

 

[S&W620]

Why on earth should the parents be prosecuted? Because they bought the kid a BB gun?

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Perfect example of why we need to implement public caning. A little public humiliation from getting the backside warmed up in front of all your peers might go a long way to putting a stop to this kind of crap.

As far as age is concerned, do a grown up crime do grown up time.

 

[Oregon Street]

When I was a kid, a friend and I were biking around with firecrackers. We were lighting then throwing them. So we bike past some younger kids and I light one and my friend throws it at them.

It lands in a little girl's hair and explodes. We bike away fast. A guy driving by saw it and followed us to my house. The police were called and the little girl's mother wanted us arrested. The cop said we could be arrested for assault. My mom played the whole "they're just young boys" thing. Nevertheless, we were taken to the police station where we were terrified.

It worked for me, I was scared straight. But a couple days later the girl's dad ran me down in his car while I was on my paper route. Put me in the hospital for two weeks with a cracked kidney. He was charged and went to jail.

Not sure if my story has point or a moral. But I agree, these young thugs in training need to be fully prosecuted.

 

[Gord]

and the parents should be in the cell next to them?

While there's a good chance the parents are doing the usual bang-up job of being involved with their kids' lives, the whole "free will" thing makes pointing the finger squarely at the parents tenuous at best. One can impart all the wisdom and morality that they possess onto a child, but the child is ultimately the one who decides whether or not to absorb or reject that information.

I know two girls, sisters, who come from a good, respectable, loving family.

One is happy, successful, stable, and getting ready to marry her longtime boyfriend after graduating from college early next year. She took 17 credits her first semester and worked two jobs to put herself through school.

The other is living on the street and in friends' living rooms when she can. She's a regular drug user, everything from marijuana to cocaine, and has at least one STD. She takes advantage of whomever will give her something for nothing, and blames everyone else for her problems.

She used to be a really cute, sweet girl and it hurts to watch her continue her downward spiral - but she has alienated and abused the trust of everyone who has tried to help her, and she has decided for herself that her way is "the right way" - nothin' anyone can do for her. We make our own choices.

But what do I know, I'm the sort of punk who still calls little old ladies ma'am and holds the door at the mini-mart.

Funny, me too. Glad there are still a few people like that in SoCal - most everyone is only concerned with their own well-being. One of the things that made me finally move out of Cali.

 

[S&W620]

Noxx, I'm was in the same boat as you as a kid. My father (and uncles, and grandfathers, and neighbors) would have cracked by backside nonstop for a week and a half.

This is exactly what I hope happens to these kids. I hope that they are able to learn from their mistakes and contribute to society as opposed to being a leach on society once they get out of prison in 15 years.

I think some of you are misunderstanding me. I DO think these kids need to be punished and that they are going to have to grow up and learn/understand that what they did was wrong. I just don't think prison is the answer in this situation.

 

[S&W620]

Oregon Street, I'm a bit confused.

You said you were arrested but nothing about being charged or serving prison time. How did things turn out?

 

[Noxx]

I DO think these kids need to be punished and that they are going to have to grow up and learn/understand that what they did was wrong. I just don't think prison is the answer in this situation.

I agree with you there, the problem is in our "enlightened age", if you punch your kid in the head, the state takes them away from you and gives them a sucker for their trouble.

 

[lloydkristmas]

S&W, no I dont expect 14 year olds to work and pay bills, but I DO expect them to NOT SHOOT PEOPLE WITH BB GUNS AFTER ROBBING CANDY STORES. These "kids" are what we call juvenile delinquents, which grow up to be adult delinquents, which eventually end up in jail or dead, but usually not after they have ruined or ended many lives. People like this should be snuffed out BEFORE they get to this point. I dont care if you are 14 or 44, but if I'm walking outside the mall and start taking shots to the back from a weapon you are holding, you've just surrendered your right to live.

 

[41magsnub]

I don't know that long prison time or an adult felony conviction are the answers either, but something harsh needs to be done. Since nobody can count on the families of these kids doing what needs to be done in this day and age the state (god help me I hate saying this) needs to do it. Prison is really the only tool we give them for this, maybe a week in county lockup next to the nastiest piece of trash in there might do them some good.

Community service and counciling are not answers here.

 

[S&W620]

lloydkristmas, I agree 100% that these kids were wrong in their actions, but shooting and killing a teenager for shooting you in the back with a BB gun seem a bit excessive to me.

BTW, not all kids who get into trouble grow up to be criminals. Some (a lot) of these kids actually grow up and become decent people.

I suppose you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[Gord]

I just don't think prison is the answer in this situation.

I think that a couple of weeks or a month in a juvie detention facility would do wonders. I'm not talking about years in jail - just a solid lesson that won't be shrugged off.

PC is ruining this country. If it were still legal, I'd just say let the fathers deal with it. It's not, so a wake-up call courtesy of juvie is the next best thing we've got.

but shooting and killing a teenager for shooting you in the back with a BB gun seem a bit excessive to me.

Most every BB pistol I've seen in the last five years has been made to look like a real firearm, complete with hammers that move and can be cocked back for a SA trigger pull - S&W autos are pretty popular base models. You would not have time to ascertain whether a gun is "real" or "fake" before you make the decision to fire on a perceived threat to your life. If this guy had been packing it's likely that the kid would have been DRT as soon as he pulled up his shirt and grabbed the BB pistol.

As it is, they're lucky to be getting off with assault charges.

 

[308win]

Wow, some of you guys are awfully harsh.

If they talk the talk they should walk the walk. The juvenile justice system doesn't have anything for these types of kids. We will probably hear about them again in the future and it won't be such a innocuous outcome next time.

 

[v35]

Why on earth should the parents be prosecuted? Because they bought the kid a BB gun?

Actually, yes. So far you seem to advocate the following:

1. These children can't be held accountable for their actions due to their young age.
2. The parents can't be held accountable for their childrens' actions.

I just can't abide complete absolution of responsibility for their action. Someone of a left-leaning political persuasion might argue that the whole of society has responsibility for their actions, as in "it takes a village" to raise a child, but I disagree. It takes parents.

I just don't think prison is the answer in this situation.

The "answer" implies there's a question. I'm not suggesting there is an "answer". However, I believe the correct action for antisocial behavior is removal from society until such time these "children" demonstrate acceptable social behavior, and I think their parents ought to be held responsible for providing that training.

Again, the full weight of law, whatever that is in their jurisdiction, ought to be applied.

 

[Noxx]

BTW, not all kids who get into trouble grow up to be criminals. Some (a lot) of these kids actually grow up and become decent people.

Again I agree, but in my experience, it's because someone more responsible beats some sense into em.

Look I just gotta say I can't begin to understand what's going with a kid that thinks it's ok to SHOOT a random person with a BB gun. When I got into trouble as a kid the worse thing I remember getting nailed on was tossing eggs, which of course is a property crime and not harmless, but it's a damn sight from brazenly shooting someone.

I never got around to shooting at people, because when the cops showed up at our door after someone nabbed my license plates while throwing eggs, my old man bid them a fine evening and broke my GD nose.

The PC idea that violence only begets violence, and that violence is never an appropriate punishment flagrantly disregards mountains upon mountains of anthropological evidence which indicates that this is how the males of a species (in humans, those overwhelmingly inclined to this sort of criminal behavior) not only assert dominance but pass on social rules from generation to generation.

When the old Silverback puts your face in the mud, you learn that your behavior is not ok, and you can pass that lesson along when you take his place.

I know that sounds simple, trite, and possibly stupid, but that's just how it is. Some things require a whippin'.

 

[Im283]

Why on earth should the parents be prosecuted? Because they bought the kid a BB gun?

I am not sure, but I believe that the parents ARE responsible for what their kids do with a BB gun they supplied.

Put me down as a vote for trying them as adults.

 

[lloydkristmas]

When the police are cleaning up these kids' drained corpses, I will be handing them my CCW and pointing out the silver and black "Beretta M9" or "Desert Eagle" pistol that they pointed at me. Oh its a BB gun? Thats too bad, it sure looked real. Better cover those bodies up Officer, I'd hate for any "kids" to see 'em.

 

[Crow61]

Here is the way I see it. Parents are responsible for their minor children. These boys, kids, thugs, ganstas, or whatever anyone wants to call them are their parents' responsibility.

You can't make people raise their children the right way. But, you can hold them accountable for their actions.

This was not a playful, harmless prank. This was very serious and left unseen about will just get worse.

My daughter works for a daycare and has several children in her class. These kids are not all that old, but already know how to disrepect adults. One of the little brats spit in my daughter's face the other day. That child needed a good old fashioned spanking. But, my daughter just had to take it because of the government tying the hands of teachers etc. This is not right.

These teens need to be punished. They need the hell scared out of them. Period. If they get away with this, they will think that they can get away with other things as well. They will have the OJ mentality.

 

[S&W620]

Tactical Ninja, in my original post I mentioned juvie as a great way to punish these kids. You and I apparently think more alike than I originally thought.

Punishment? Yes. Strong punishment? Yes. Sharing a prison cell with 40 year old felon with multiple convictions over the course of 20 years? No.

v35, where have I said that the kids aren't responsible or shouldn't be held responsible for their actions? I just don't think the crime warrants being tried as an adult on multiple felony charges.

If you want to remove them from society, fine with me. But do so in an appropriate manner, such as a detention center for juveniles, not a prison for adults.

Also, if you want to put toss these kids in juvie, use a little creativity to get the message through their thick heads. Personally, if I were the one sentencing these kids, they would each get 3 months in juvie that and would pay their debt to society on the weekends (no sense in letting out of their obligations as a student while school is in session) and over Thanksgiving break/Christmas break/Easter break/summer vacation until the debt is payed. Take away the leisure time with friends and family for 6-9 months and see if they don't get the message. I think a lifestyle based around education and a little "hard time" (relatively speaking) would do wonders for these boys.

 

[El Barto]

Were the teens lucky? No, I don't think so in this case. This was a demonstration of responsible firearm ownership by Mr. Breczinski.

As for the teens; prosecute them as adults to the fullest extent of the law. In some areas, a bb gun is considered a firearm and just shooting one within city limits can get you visited by the police.

When I was 15, I was 6'2" and about 165lbs. I was bigger than some adults and I definately knew right from wrong. If these "kids" thought that it was fun to shoot people at the mall, then they need to be taught otherwise.