Teetering Tensions on the Mexico Border

[Waitone]

Why_Me, again you have interesting comments but I'm having a hard time establishing your documentation and assigning subsequent credibility.

I see a list of organizations funded or supported by John Tanton but I see no sourcing of the information. Later on in another posting in the area of your signature on a post I see a URL sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman. I poked around through it and didn't see anything related to your previous post.

Two points: documentation will add tremendously to your comments. Second, Henry Waxman is as far in the extreme as those you react against. I wouldn't trust Waxman to reliably report if the sun made it up today. That is precisely why I want to see your sources before I draw conclusions on what you say.

 

[Iain]

Don't really want to thread de-rail too much, it's an interesting discussion and I have no part to play in it, except:

That was a bit of a massive over-reaction Ezekiel. Saying that you select your partner for genetics is just a statement that recognises the animal part of human nature.

For instance, most people rate symmetrical faces as more attractive than asymetrical faces. Some suggest that a symmetrical face is an indicator of good health, and underlying good genetics. The reasons we are attracted to other people is, at least in part, due to their "genetic attractiveness", we want our children to be healthy and strong and be able to pass on our genes.

There is nothing necessarily racist about that. After all a magazine recently asked people to rate a series of faces for attractiveness. The winner was a mixture of French, Irish, English and Indian. A 'more attractive' person can come from anywhere in the world, in my opinion she comes from Jerusalem and is called Natalie Portman. Of course, some would disagree with me purely because Portman is Jewish, so it can be a racist thing.

 

[Jmurman]

I sure hope SOMETHING is done to stop this.

 

[Ezekiel]

That was a bit of a massive over-reaction Ezekiel. Saying that you select your partner for genetics is just a statement that recognises the animal part of human nature.

Valid criticism.

 

[garyk/nm]

O.F.Fascist

It should go along with that that cost of living should also be lower. It certainly is in South Texas.

Oh, really. What is your basis for this statement? How much comparison shopping have you done? Do new cars cost less in South Texas? How about appliances? Or anything from the local WalMart? How about gasoline prices or utilities? (Speaking about New Mexico now)the only thing that is lower on a dollar-for-dollar basis is housing cost, and if you look at that as a % of income, it is actually higher!

So then work to change your tax system. Texas has no income tax. Sales Taxes only.

Right. New Mexico has an Hispanic Governor.

Quote:
That part of the Constitution which says that "if you are born in the US, you are a citizen", needs to be changed to read " if you are born in the US to parents who are here legally, you are a citizen".
That would really cut down on the welfare drain.


No reducing or eliminating welfare would really cut down on the welfare drain. I have no problem with people working to do just that.

But isn't what I said also true? If you eliminate the "hop across the border, drop a baby, and head down to the local welfare office to sign up" syndrome, wouldn't that also decrease the problem?

Your attitude, my friend, and those apologists like you, are the reason that this is a problem!

 

[DRZinn]

Those that attacked us on 9/11 were not Mexico and they did not come into this country via Mexico.

No-one has claimed they did. The difference between immigration from Canada and immigration from Mexico is that there aren't millions of people sneaking over the Canadian border unaccounted for, and Canada has reasonably secure borders.

 

[why_me]

Why_Me, again you have interesting comments but I'm having a hard time establishing your documentation and assigning subsequent credibility.

I see a list of organizations funded or supported by John Tanton but I see no sourcing of the information. Later on in another posting in the area of your signature on a post I see a URL sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman. I poked around through it and didn't see anything related to your previous post.

Two points: documentation will add tremendously to your comments. Second, Henry Waxman is as far in the extreme as those you react against. I wouldn't trust Waxman to reliably report if the sun made it up today. That is precisely why I want to see your sources before I draw conclusions on what you say.

Why the need for documentation. Go to the websites and look for John Tantons name.
And the database of lies. If Whackman is lying he would be at least censured. And possilby sued. But he hasnt and he wont.Whackman didnt try to convince us with lies and misleading statements that Saddam was a threat the Shrub organisation did.


And another point. On the database of lies. How is it not credible if the quotes are from the Bush administration?

Statement by President George W. Bush
"Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."

Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).
Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought aluminum tubes for use in its nuclear weapons program, failing to mention that the government’s most experienced technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy concluded that the tubes were "poorly suited" for this purpose.

 

[why_me]

Doczinn said

No-one has claimed they did. The difference between immigration from Canada and immigration from Mexico is that there aren't millions of people sneaking over the Canadian border unaccounted for, and Canada has reasonably secure borders.

THe us canada border is the longest unprotected border in the world. It is a favorite destination for those who can afford it. To sneak into the united states, people and contraband.


Ooohh Traffic cones. That will stop em

U.S. Border Patrol Inspector Reid Chrest scans the area after lining up traffic cones to close the border between the United States and Canada at the Neche, N.D., crossing. The crossing is closed each night at 10 and reopens at 8 a.m.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/mar02/26656.asp
Jerry Pawluk, another union official and an agent on the northern border, says that in certain areas it was common practice before Sept. 11 to have no one on duty for late-night shifts. If electronic sensors or reports from police, farmers or ranchers indicated someone had crossed illegally, an agent would have to get up, get dressed and drive out. And he would have to hope, in the meantime, the intruder hadn't vanished into the landscape.

"It's not uncommon for a single agent to be responsible for 20 to 50 miles of border. It's an impossible task with the manpower and resources we have," Pawluk says. "I've been on the northern border for 10 years, and I've been saying it for that long."

The contrast is not lost on the Border Patrol agents who come here. All agents learn their trade by dealing with the smothering heat and sea of humanity on the southern border.

That's where Daniel Salyers learned to watch the ground for signs of intruders - a trail of brush that had been pushed down, a flat section on otherwise rough ground. Now, on the northern border, he's starting to catch illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America who think they'll have a better chance of sneaking in here than they would down south.

The northern border also has its own problems, smuggling in particular. Guns and cigarettes go north. Drugs come south.

 

[Patriot.45]

www.nomoreamnesty.com

 

[S Roper]

"But you have (conveniently?) ignored the ILLEGAL part of the equation."

No I haven't. As I stated earlier I believe a free Republic requires an open immigration policy. I propose that amnesty be granted to all illegals so that they may be properly registered and can begin naturalization and pay taxes, etc. The primary reason that they are coming in illegally is because our quotas have not kept up with demand. Immigrants want to come into our country. Citizens are willing to give them money in exchange for services and to provide them with shelter, food, and services in exchange for money. Why should we want an authoritarian government tightly regulating this?

I'm surprised more people don't see the connections between immigration control and gun control. Both attempt to curtail the rights of individuals in an attempt to further the aim of "security" (economic or otherwise). One parallel I can think of is the appeal to how legal Mexican immigrants feel about illegal immigrants. Who cares about what some elite class thinks? That's like appealing to what cops think about gun control. "Only the police should have guns." "Only the elite should be allowed in." Don't you see the folly in this?

 

[why_me]

Another tanton group

www.nomoreamnesty.com
Was founded by FAIR.

This is the same thing as registering on a forum under 15 different aliases. Then all agreeing on a point of view.

 

[longeyes]

Mexicans do not have a completely different culture than ours. Damn near all Mexicans are Catholic, that means they are Christians for some of the slow people on this board, and as such share many of the same values most Americans do.

The issue is whether they share the same values with the Founding Fathers, not a population of Americans who are increasingly losing sight of what this nation was and is built on.

This has become a strange but illuminating thread. The mysterious John Galt--sorry, I mean John Tanton--is the great seminal father of all opposition to illegal immigration? And therefore the "sins" of this father must be visited upon his intellectual children? Look, either illegal immigration is wrong or it isn't. Who cares what John Tanton thinks or thought? We all need to make up our own minds about this. NOW.

The idea that a "free Republic" requires open borders is a crock. A free Republic requires freedom and civil order, and the notion of that freedom and civil order resides in those who constitute that Republic. People do not have to admit those who are in fundamental disagreement with their values to a given society.

And, on a practical note, you cannot have the America you want with two billion people living here under a multicultural welfare state. Isn't that plain as day?

 

[garyk/nm]

S Roper
I guess if you look upon the US as a $10 hooker pulling a train for all comers, then I can see your point. I propose rounding up all illegals, fingerprinting and DNA sampling them and deporting them, never to return. There. How is my proposal any less valid than yours?
It is too easy to sit up there in Chagrin Falls and pontificate about a problem which has little or no effect on you. THIS IS NOT A THEORETICAL EXERCISE!
Americans are being harmed by this invasion and those of us on the brown end of the stick are not happy about it!

 

[R.H. Lee]

Thedore Roosevelt said:

"There is no place for the hyphen in our citizenship... We are a nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities. We are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house"

 

[Waitone]

I'm through trying.

*****Poof*****

 

[Orthonym]

Umm, People Vary?

I mean, like both from individual to individual, and from population to population? Some of the differences are important in every way, some are sometimes important in some ways, some are just matters of taste.

Anybody here ever read Len Deighton's book, "Bomber"? It's a novel about a British Lancaster squadron bombing the Ruhr one night in 1943. It has German characters in it, too. It has one of the German characters mentioning parenthetically (I think; been a long time since I read it) the trouble the Nazis had with an Indian (anti-Brit Hindu) FLAK battery.

It seems the Nazis studied up on their "Rassenwissenschaft"
and figured the Hindu guys were Aryans, no matter how dark their complexions. Reaction to tropical sunshine, dontcha know.

The local Dutchmen didn't see it that way, and called the Indians "Kaffirs" and worse names. This put the Nazis in the interesting position of having to quell racist anger.


People can be so weird.