Teflon Bullets?

[Cosmoline]

Whether or not lies/deception put it there,

]

THERE IS NO WHETHER OR NOT--IT IS A LIE!! A total complete and unmitigated LIE. The fact that the idiots in Salem actually put it into the code makes me happy I left that state before the liberal scum took it over completely. But that doesn't make the myth any less of a myth. Get that into your head!

 

[Headless]

Interesting to read this thread; I went up to TLGS this afternoon to purchase a couple speedloaders, new grips and some personal defence rounds for my brand new S&W 642. Unfortunately they had no speedloaders left for my gun and no grips left for my gun...and their personal defense rounds consisted of some speer gold dots and that's about it. I asked the fellow to order me some Winchester "SXT" 130gr +P personal protection rounds, which i have read are good rounds that deliver >800FPS from a snub .38 and expand well through clothing. He told me that those are simply re-named black talon rounds as winchester was forced to stop selling the rounds under the old name. Anyone know if that's the case?

 

[Father Knows Best]

I don't know about that particular ammo, but I do know that Winchester dropped the "Black Talon" name because of all the adverse publicity surrounding it. In .45ACP, the same basic ammo is sold as "Ranger SXT" (product code RA45T) in boxes that say "Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition."

 

[weregunner]

Nyclads are nylon coated lead bullets folks.Not teflon.All the urban myths here are exaggerations by the left and the media.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Nyclads are nylon coated lead bullets folks.

Is it even nylon? I can scratch it off with my fingernail. Yeah, that's going to pierce a Kevlar vest

 

[Dravur]

Second Degree Murder????

If I buy a fake mustache and shoot someone, how in the world can that be construed as second degree murder? Wow, if I commit a crime, im heading to NO.

 

[Snowdog]

Headless, the only two things the SXT line has in common with the old Black Talon is a reverse-tapered jacket and the same manufacturer (Winchester). No "talons", but still a very good JHP that expands at relatively low velocities.

BTW, Winchester voluntarily pulled the Black Talon off the civilian market due to bad press (Ferguson & Gian Luigi Ferri shooting rampages). There are no Federal laws prohibiting the sale or ownership of Black Talons. That's not to say there are no State or Local/City statutes involved, but no one forced Winchester to do anything.

 

[Headless]

Interesting; thanks for the info. I've always been intrigued by urban myths surrounding some cartridges. Hopefully i never have to find out weather these are as deadly as they are supposed to be I'm not familiar with the original rounds; could you by any chance tell me what the main differences between the SXT's and the black talons "of lore " are?

 

[myusername]

If I buy a fake mustache and shoot someone, how in the world can that be construed as second degree murder? Wow, if I commit a crime, im heading to NO.

I don't see any reason for it to be second degree. They had been in a fight a week or two before and then he planned this out. He is friends with the sheriff so maybe he cut him a break. I don't think that would actually happen but I don't understand the charge either. I am curious to see what the final charge turns out to be.

 

[Snowdog]

could you by any chance tell me what the main differences between the SXT's and the black talons "of lore " are?

Below is a picture I took a few years ago after testing various JHPs from my Kimber against denim-covered play dough. All were fired from the same handgun, on the same day, into the same play dough covered by the same 2 layers of denim. It was a fairly controlled test, yet there were significant differences in expansion and "talon deployment". Several rounds of each were fired that day; the expansion/function results shown below are typical for the .45acp.

Top: 230gr Winchester SXT

Bottom right: 230gr Winchester Black Talon

Bottom left: 230gr Winchester Ranger (Black Talon sans black Lubalux coating).

Hope this helps:

Though the Ranger is supposedly the same thing as the Black Talon minus the black coating, I noticed the old style Black Talon exhibited much more pronounced Talon deployment. The talons on the newer Ranger seemed to hug the petals, hardly protruding from the shank. I strongly suspect more was changed than simply the coating.

[EDIT: This is true only for the .45acp rounds in the above photo. The 9mm and .40S&W Rangers I've tested perform beautifully.]

 

[Headless]

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for your input!

 

[gak]

Would be sick to have those talons lock at 90 degrees due to copper thickness etc. It would be like having a ninja star going through you broadsided.

 

[SDC]

Here's a shot showing a couple of the KTW rounds (numbers 7 through 10 from the right in the top row); in the original steel-core KTW design, the hard body of the projectile never even TOUCHED the rifling, so the Teflon was added solely as an "anti-skid" coating (this, according to Dr. Kopsch, the "K" in "KTW"; see http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200403010926.asp ) They found that the Teflon helps the bullets "plant" better when striking a hard, oblique surface , so they kept the coating for subsequent versions of the round. Nyclads, OTOH, have nothing to do with Teflon, and have a nylon-based (hence "NYclad") coating applied to them that both lubricates the passage of the soft lead bullet down a firearm's bore, and helps the bullet retain weight during expansion; since the bullet is easier to deform than a regular JHP, they produce reliable expansion, but they'd be next to useless for AP.

 

[RooK]

SDC, what are those rounds in the bottom left? They look almost identical to HEAT rounds for tanks, and I guess they'd work the same.

 

[SDC]

The 45 and 9mm rounds on the bottom left (and also the 38 Spl in the top row) are THV rounds ("Tres Haute Vitesse" = "Very High Speed"), manufactured by SFM in France. They're machined out of bronze with a "negative ogive" and very light projectile weight; this combination produces an armour-piercing effect, because the entire force of the bullet is concentrated on the tip, which initially forces its way through Kevlar weave, and is then followed by the remainder of the projectile. HTH.