Stormshotty
Member
What is this about an 'Arsenal Saiga'? I see it goes for a lot more (650 or so) and seems to have a lot more feature. What is your opinion on this?
Tell me about the Saiga.
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Maverick223
Member
Overpriced with no real upgrade in quality...for the price of an Arsenal or Lancaster, I would get a VZ-58. 
Stormshotty
Member
They seem to have replaced some of the parts....are these better versions?
Maverick223
Member
No, they offer no better accuracy, fitment of parts, reliability, or anything worthwhile. They do have a slightly better finish and they have replaced some of the parts with US made conversion parts. Not worth it IMO.
their basic ones are just what you can do yourself
their pricier AK-10x-style conversions are more or less worth the money, because it will probably cost you about the same to do it yourself plus the fees you'll have to pay the gunsmith for the muzzle adapter and such to accommodate the brake.
ssullivan
Member
I have had mine (.223 non arsenal) for about 2 years now and have no issues with it. I does shoot a pretty open group at 100yds though.
Edit: There are a couple of muzzle breaks out there that slip over the end of the barrel and are secured with two set screws just under the front site, If you are just looking for the "Look".
Edit: There are a couple of muzzle breaks out there that slip over the end of the barrel and are secured with two set screws just under the front site, If you are just looking for the "Look".
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Stormshotty
Member
So the Arsenal SLR-10X rifles have pretty much already been converted to 103-types?
nalioth
Member
Not really.Stormshotty said:
Isn't this is a Saiga discussion thread?
Stormshotty
Member
Oh, do their 10-Xs have nothing to do with the Saiga? I was under the impression that they had converted some of the Saiga's into AK-103 formation and were selling them.
nalioth
Member
Maverick223
Member
I don't believe Arsenal offers the milled receivers any longer. Besides a milled receiver does offer better aesthetics, but that is about it.
ohgrady
Member
Is there a reason to keep track of U.S. made parts? I thought the law applies to the number of foreign parts, so it doesn't matter how many U.S. parts you have just as long as your foreign parts count is 10 or less.
Maverick223
Member
Correct, only restriction is no more than 10 foreign parts (from any foreign nation).
Maverick223
Member
Perhaps (correct me if I am wrong) that ohgrady was referring to the stock and the forearm as the two replacement parts...not the pistol grip (which would also need to be manufactured in the USA).
ohgrady
Member
Saiga parts count
What I was getting at is that I think people get confused on the "part count issue" and somehow think that keeping track of the number of U.S. parts matters, when in reality, the 10 parts game is more like a speed limit in your car. You are in violation when you drive 66 MPH in a 65 MPH zone.
Taking off the original butt stock of the Saiga (1 foreign part) removes 1 foreign part from your count. Whether you put the Tapco stock/pistol grip combo back on it or you make your own from a tree in your back yard, makes no difference-it's the foreign parts left that count - literally!
I don't know if the Saiga trigger group is the same as the AK, but assuming it is, wouldn't a Saiga (in its original stock configuration) that was using a 30 round foreign mag. have 14 counted parts? (stock,receiver, trigger group, bolt/carrier/piston, magazine, front trunion, front hand guard, and barrel)
So a guy who wants to use a 30 round magazine should use a U.S. made magazine and replace the original stock, which would bring him down to 10 parts or otherwise back to the "speed limit."
What I was getting at is that I think people get confused on the "part count issue" and somehow think that keeping track of the number of U.S. parts matters, when in reality, the 10 parts game is more like a speed limit in your car. You are in violation when you drive 66 MPH in a 65 MPH zone.
Taking off the original butt stock of the Saiga (1 foreign part) removes 1 foreign part from your count. Whether you put the Tapco stock/pistol grip combo back on it or you make your own from a tree in your back yard, makes no difference-it's the foreign parts left that count - literally!
I don't know if the Saiga trigger group is the same as the AK, but assuming it is, wouldn't a Saiga (in its original stock configuration) that was using a 30 round foreign mag. have 14 counted parts? (stock,receiver, trigger group, bolt/carrier/piston, magazine, front trunion, front hand guard, and barrel)
So a guy who wants to use a 30 round magazine should use a U.S. made magazine and replace the original stock, which would bring him down to 10 parts or otherwise back to the "speed limit."
ohgrady
Member
As I understand the situation, Saigas are imported in a configuration that is considered "sporting" so the parts count doesn't matter. I've never seen a Saiga magazine up close, but on the assumption it is 3 counted parts like other mag's, an original Saiga would have 14 parts if you were countin' em.
If I buy one, I think I'm leaving it stock - then I don't need to count.
If I buy one, I think I'm leaving it stock - then I don't need to count.
nalioth
Member
ohgrady said:
The parts count doesn't matter, so long as you use the factory magazine.
Stick a 30 round SureFire in a factory Saiga, and you've crossed into the land of the Federal felony with just one *click*.
Zach S
Member
I remember looking at a 7.62 Saiga several years ago for $189. Knew if I didn't buy it I'd regret it. Been kicking myself in the behind ever since.
I got mine during the panic buying spree. Uncle Sam had just paid me back for the interest free loan so the $450 price tag didn't hurt too much.
The factory trigger sucks, and the rifle pointed like a 2x4. Did the conversion with a Tapco G2 trigger (which rocks, IMO), PG, and side folder (which I dont care for).
I dont care fore the sights. After I take care of a few things not related to firearms, I think I'm going to go with an ultimak rail and some sort of optic.
I got mine during the panic buying spree. Uncle Sam had just paid me back for the interest free loan so the $450 price tag didn't hurt too much.
The factory trigger sucks, and the rifle pointed like a 2x4. Did the conversion with a Tapco G2 trigger (which rocks, IMO), PG, and side folder (which I dont care for).
I dont care fore the sights. After I take care of a few things not related to firearms, I think I'm going to go with an ultimak rail and some sort of optic.
I am also not too crazy about the big dings in my brass cases which makes them pretty much scrap ....but I have been shooting the silver bear in mine an its just as accurate out too 50m (which is hit anything I aim at)as the fed. or rem. I got too hunt with here in the swamps of Ga. ...with the 16'' barrel its perfect !
I purchased mine already compliant with the tapco trigger group (its awsome) and furniture as well as the USA made 20rd. mags... an AK in 308win is some more fun too shoot as well !!
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED !
I purchased mine already compliant with the tapco trigger group (its awsome) and furniture as well as the USA made 20rd. mags... an AK in 308win is some more fun too shoot as well !!
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED !
ohgrady
Member
I checked out a 7.62x39 Saiga at a gun shop a couple of weeks ago-it was not very balanced to say the least. With respect to the factory trigger, can it be replaced with a Tapco without converting the rifle? I've never looked inside a saiga.
Maverick223
Member
It is probably possible...but I don't know where to get the parts, and it still won't be that great because it works as a fulcrum (and the new one would also have to do likewise).
nalioth
Member
The answer is "not easily".ohgrady said:
In the picture below, parts "7", "8", "9" and "10" are the factory Saiga "trigger".
. . . and now you see why the trigger sucks so horribly on the factory Saigas.
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