Tell me again why they shouldn't be armed?

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DRZinn

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One of the justifications I keep hearing for not arming ships' crews is that the pirates might shoot back. How's that fit with this?


Somali Pirates Attack U.S. Ship, But Fail to Board New York based vessel was damaged, but crew was unhurt

By TAMER EL-GHOBASHY

The attack on the Liberty Sun occurred about 300 miles off the coast of Somalia.

Heavily armed Somali pirates attacked a U.S. cargo ship Tuesday, lobbing grenades and firing automatic weapons towards the vessel, but failed to seize the ship before a Navy destroyer showed up to provide assistance.

Captain Richard Phillips, who has been held by Somali pirates since Wednesday in a small life boat off of Africa, has been freed.

No one in the 20 man crew was injured during the brazen attack, but the New York based ship was damaged, officials from Liberty Maritime Corporation of Lake Success said in a statement.

"We are grateful and pleased that no one was injured and the crew and the ship are safe," the statement from the Long Island based company said. "We have communicated with the families of the crew to inform them of these developments. We commend the entire crew for its professionalism and poise under fire."

The attack on the Liberty Sun occurred about 300 miles off the coast of Somalia at about 11:30 a.m., U.S. officials told NBC News.

It came just days after U.S. Navy Seals were able to rescue Captain Richard Phillips from Somali pirates who had taken him hostage after the bandits failed to capture his cargo ship, the Maersk Alabama.

In today's attack, the pirates were not able to board the Liberty Sun despite being heavily armed.

"The pirates pretty much shot up the bridge, but no one was hurt," according to one source. The crew immediately requested assistance from the Navy, which dispatched forces that were able to thwart the pirates. Navy spokesman Captain Jack Hanzlik said the USS Bainbridge, a destroyer, had arrived to the scene at 5:30 p.m. and that the pirates had left.

The crew of the ship barricaded themselves in the engine room as they came under fire and waited for help to arrive, CNN.com reported.

"We are under attack by pirates, we are being hit by rockets. Also bullets," sailor Thomas Urbik of Illinois, wrote in e-mails to his mother, Katy, according to CNN. "We are barricaded in the engine room and so far no one is hurt. [A] rocket penetrated the bulkhead but the hole is small. Small fire, too, but put out."

"Navy is on the way and helos and ships are coming," the e-mail said. I'll try to send you another message soon. [G]ot to go now. I love you mom and dad and all my brothers and family."

A little more than an hour later, the sailor sent another e-mail to his mother telling her that the Navy had arrived and that the ship and its crew were safe.

"The navy has showed up in full force and we are now under military escort ... all is well. I love you all and thank you for the prayers," Urbik wrote.

Hours before the attack, Urbik had e-mailed his mother saying the U.S. Navy was forcing the vessel to update its position every six hours and that the crew had conducted several drills, where they "secure" themselves in the engine room. "We can do it pretty quick by now," he wrote.

The Liberty Sun was bound for Mombasa, Kenya carrying thousands of tons of humanitarian aid to African nations, shipping officials said. The vessel will continue to its destination with an escort.

"We want to especially thank the United States Navy for its prompt response to our request for assistance," Liberty said in its statement. "We also wish to thank the U.S. Government for its cooperation in responding to this attack."

Sunday's rescue of Phillips, where three pirates holding the skipper in a lifeboat were shot dead by Navy snipers, has not slowed down the pace of the hijackings.

On Tuesday, pirates seized four ships with a total of 60 hostages. "No one can deter us," one bandit boasted.

"Our latest hijackings are meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land," Omar Dahir Idle told The Associated Press by telephone. "Our guns do not fire water. I am sure we will avenge."

The freed skipper will return home to the United States on Wednesday, after reuniting with his 19-man crew in Mombasa, according to the shipping company Maersk Line Ltd. Phillips had offered himself as a hostage to spare his ship and his men a battle with the armed bandits -- earning the admiration of his men who hailed him as a hero.
 
It's to be assumed that shooting at an armed pirate will result in said pirate shooting back.

The other option is to not shoot them, and let them do whatever they want with you, up to and including death.

I'd rather bench my life on my marksmanship than on a pirate's benevolence.
 
Also we've signed treaties prohibiting arms on board ships that will dock in other countries.
Why'ed we sign beats me.

Remember we must abide by the UN treaties we sign.
 
how about the fact that most countrys in the world have very strick importation of firearms laws... we are one of those countrys.
 
Our crews should be armed with longbows, spears, and ballistas.
Nothing says "leave us alone" like giant flaming arrows flying at your dingy!
 
lso we've signed treaties prohibiting arms on board ships that will dock in other countries.
Why'd we sign beats me.

see how well an Arab merchant ship that docked in a US port with a dozen aks on board is treated :rolleyes:
oh you want one rule for US ships in foreign ports and a diffrent set of rules for ships in US ports :uhoh:

one of the useful things the UN does is sort out international rules such as this
 
The vast majority of the worlds governments only want Military and Police forces armed. The sea's are where they have common ground. They really don't care if pirates kill you. It even helps their cause if they do. More people will clamor for something to be done which gives them cause to tighten up control even more.
 
There are already companies that provide guns or armed teams for the cruise inside the Aden gulf, from Yemen..

the only thing is that it costs a lot, and most shipping companies see it's cheaper to pay the pirates if they get caught instead of paying an armed protection each time they go through..

Pirates are not crazy.. they tried to assault chinese or Russian ships, but they were welcomed with people armed with axes and molotoff coktails... they stopped assaulting russian and chinese ships, also because they don't pay...

The problem comes from the so called "civilized nations" such as Germany or UK, which refuse to kill pirates, and are prompt to pay the ransom..

Hell, there was even people saying we should pay the pirate a fee every time we pass there not to be attacked..

Solution number 1, would be to randomly put military teams, inside cruising ships, and let them kill every pirate the should met.. (but I mean, waiting for them, making them believe they can get on board, and kill them all) ...

After 3 or 4 of this "trojan ships" reactions, pirates won't attack anymore, always fearing to attack THE armed ship
 
Remember we must abide by the UN treaties we sign.

Why? No other country does.

I don't know much about the trade routes I guess but my question has been why don't they simply go a little further away from that part of the African coast?

But yeah, a couple of handguns in the captains safe at the very least. It's just common sense I'd think.
 
Aboard the USS Dixie in the early 70's we were anchored in Hong Kong harbor. The sampans were forever coming up to the side trying to sell stuff etc. The chief bos'n went to the valve shop and got a 6" pipe flange and dropped it over the side from the 02 level about 2 feet off the bow of one sampan. You should have seen them haul ass.
I'm thinking something like giant spud guns on the rails would satisfy the "no-guns" rules and satisfy the safety aspect for oil tankers.
 
Well, it's time we arm the damn things and blast the shooter out of the water. No use sitting in the radio room hundered down behind the engine block taking rpg rounds.

Nothing will solve the pirate problem faster than this. PRirates board or try to or open fire, they are committing a act of war. Sink em.

Geesh, have we not forgotten our own early history? By the time we settled that little problem our commerce was good .

Put the weapons in a crate or something when in port to avoid offending the faint citizens as might be found in those rough areas of town.
 
It's only a matter of time before pirates take an American passenger ship with 3 or 4 thousand people on board. If they can take an oil tanker they can certainly take one of those. When that happens all hell is going to break loose.
 
They already nibbled on one. The big cruise ship banged off a few noise makers, packed the cattle into the center interior and ran away taking damage.
 
Don't resist and everything will be ok!

After all, if you can't trust in the basic level headed human decency of teenage pirates, hopped up on qat and waving Kalashnikovs, what CAN you trust in...?
 
Yes, we have forgotten our own history...and are working hard at changing it!

Go read some school textbooks sometime.
 
its only a small number of ships compared with the total that pass by.
so owners won't do anything
Until somalia becomes a functioning state this will go on
a skiff half a dozen blokes with aks vs a mulitmillion pound payoff if it goes right
 
How about a small well-armed ship that followed, or was towed by, the large shipping vessel. It could meet the large vessel in international waters, escort it through danger zones, then turn around and escort another ship going the other way. This would be expensive but after killing any pirates who approach the problem would eventually subside. It would be an investment in pirate discouragement and number reduction.

The ship wouldn't need to enter port, could be armed to the teeth, could be resupplied, and sailors relieved, at sea.
 
for example like the international naval presence already there:rolleyes:

problem very big piece of sea
individual escort very expensive
convoys the same
 
Crebralfix The textbooks have been watered, nuetered, rewritten, soaked in mild soap and washed of anything that might upset, incite controversary, offend sensibilities, and completely a deadweight containing bull served with a schedule and yearly audits for compliance with the snooze law.

They also serve to weight the students down to the point of being too tired to engage in higher level thinking of what actually happened BEFORE they were born.

In my day we (Uphill both ways I know...) we had books at the library inside the middle school that had clinical diagrams of how sex worked between humans. Such material does not exist today in schools for example. We dont need that paper as long there is a lurid internet that constantly breaks the large firewall of systematic leakage of smut and goodies for the wee ones to feast on.

But actual history?

HAH.
 
Sounds like a perfect use for Greek Fire. That would give the pirates pause...
 
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