Tell me again why they shouldn't be armed?

[230RN]

....

 

[CoRoMo]

SHOULD vs. CAN'T

They should be armed, but they can't, so they don't

Same thing occurs when I walk into the post office.
There's absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be armed, but Federal law states that I can't be, so I leave it outside.

A more accurate analogy would be an employer's rules for employees.

 

[Officers'Wife]

My grandfather used to talk about convoy ships in WWII where one ship would be armed to the teeth and disguised a tramp steamer that fell behind the convoy. German submarines wouldn't waste a torpedo on such a helpless looking vessel and would surface to sink with the deck gun. When the appeared the camouflage over the guns would drop and the decoy ship would open fire giving the Germans a really bad day.

Perhaps, we need to have a few of these decoy ships manned by the Navy sailing the sea lanes the Somalia pirates operate. After a few 'easy' freighters turn out to have 6 inch guns, Bofers and a few hundred insulted sailors and Marines the pirates may start to respect the ships flying the US flag.

Selena

 

[Hungry Seagull]

They are working on it it seems. I think the French grabbed a mother ship earlier today.

It's a classic saloon fight. It wont be long before it becomes a real shooting war with all bets off and I welcome it.

Im sick and tired of negotations and diplomacy, it only drags out for weeks.

 

[Gamera]

I wonder how long it will take before the entertainment industry catches on to this new pirate popularity thing. I can see it now...

Pirates of the Caribbean 4: The Somalian Escapade

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Awww.

Im thinking that person who played Master and Commander must squeal like a little girl and beg the radioman to call the Navy and quickly... progress from stress, panic and to heart failure or something right there as the pirate hooks come over the rail.

Or maybe some nut skipper sticks a highway flare into the hold of his refined gasoline tanker and blows the pirates to the great davy jones locker while we all hail him and his crew as heros.

Or maybe the pirates come here to our waters and wrestle the deck hands for that alaskan crab.

 

[Gamera]

Hehe, but yes back on topic, I think it's completely reasonable for the crew members of our ships to have sidearms. Or jeez even SLING SHOTS would be better than just doing nothing.

 

[Dan Crocker]

Perhaps, we need to have a few of these decoy ships manned by the Navy sailing the sea lanes the Somalia pirates operate. After a few 'easy' freighters turn out to have 6 inch guns, Bofers and a few hundred insulted sailors and Marines the pirates may start to respect the ships flying the US flag.

6 inchers and 40 mm Bofors aren't neccessary. A couple of 7.62 machine guns will work fine. Funny how the French seem to have more balls than we do in this situation...

 

[Deanimator]

6 inchers and 40 mm Bofors aren't neccessary.

What happened to all of the 40mm Bofors guns that came off of the Dusters the Army no longer uses? There used to be a BUNCH of Dusters at the AMSA at Camp Perry back in the late '80s and early '90s. There's literally NOTHING the pirates own that couldn't be sunk by 40mm rounds. If they're available and not being used, why not take advantage of them?

 

[Hungry Seagull]

My guess they got burned up at the old Exercises run against OPfor out west.

No worries, there are plenty of weapons to pick from today. Just need to pick a deck spot, a man to weld it down and someone to take care of it and man it when necessary.

 

[Dan Crocker]

Don't even need to weld it. Just have one of those T&Es that can mount to the railing. A 40mm Bofors gun is pretty much a permanent attachment. A couple 240s (or Vickers or Lewis or M 60s or whatever) are man-portable and give you more options as far as mounting. Plus, being little guns, if the ship is captured, you aren't putting anything big in the pirate's hands.

 

[230RN]

....

 

[Jon_Snow]

Why not just park a carrier out there? An F-18 can haul out there a lot faster than a destroyer, and a strafing run is sure to discourage the heartiest of pirates.

Also, I think the pork comments are a little out of line. If these guys cared about their religion at all they'd realize that stealing from ships delivering humanitarian aid to their own starving county-men goes against several tennants of their faith.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Jon Snow.

We do have carrier type ships appropriate for the mission in the area. Just maybe not a full bore big carrier. But no worries, there are some about constantly.

The recent operation with the Seals on the Bainbridge indicates to me that the US Navy and Marines are sufficiently effective and on duty.

Now try to get some sleep and dont worry about those big carriers.

I stand by the pork comments. It is directed at our Congress and also against the Pirates own faith based adversion to bacon.

 

[4Freedom]

I stand by the pork comments. It is directed at our Congress and also against the Pirates own faith based adversion to bacon.

Yeah, but what if some of the American ship members are Jewish? LOL..


Really, I think this is all so silly... These guys should be armed with expanding, non penetrating ammunition, at least. With all our technology, we cannot keep a bunch of starving bandits from a fourth world hellhole at bay? Many of these guys have old rusty AK47 rifles, ripped up shirts, probably havent showered in a year, probably hvae a 2nd grade education at the most. I mean, this is a joke right? What kind of bone-headed political correct world are we in. Once the pirates see how easy it is to operate in their own area, they will encourage pirates around the world to engage in this activity, because the western world is too stupid to stop them. If the members on that boat had guns, including long range sniper rifles, mounted guns, etc, that alone would have deterred the pirates, they would stick to robbing and raping their own people.

How else could that monkey in Iran survive all these years, without an government of imbicles in Europe and USA , pleading with him to stop developing weapons of mass destruction, yet sitting on their arsh and doing nothing.

 

[Diamondback6]

Y'know what the ideal ship for this would be? Something like the Oregon in Clive Cussler's novels. Maybe convert some of the hold or deck-space behind dummy container fronts into pads for a couple Harriers, too?

Get me the budget to build such a ship, and I'd give my time to run it. Price is, my crew set up a corporation and get the boat when the show's over...lol

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I don't think the porcine de-mohammedeanifiers would be much of a problem for the jewish sailors. Observant jews don't eat pork, based on ancient jewish civil law, itself based on some hygienic concerns very much commonsense in the dark ages. But the mohammedean aversion to pork is of a type well in excess of the "don't eat any" variety. They freak out in its very presence. They mutineed en masse in India because according to a phony German rumor their cartridges were wrapped in paper greased with pork fat. It's like garlic in Transylvania, man. Let's grease them bulwarks!

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Right. Pass the plate we haf eats to do right heah yah?

Let's see. Sourkraut, Strudel, Schnapps Spearment, Beef and a bit of Taters and Sauasges to wash it all down.

Any seconds?

 

[Ky Larry]

A very smart man once said "Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it." We have forgotten our history. The line in the Marine Corp Hymn about "..the shores of Tripoli.." was not written as fiction. If any of our political prostitues would read a history book, they would know exactly how to deal with pirates attacking American ships. Been there, done that.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Tripoli. Now THERE is a story. And am DAMN glad someone knows about Tripoli other than myself somewhere out there.

In Baltimore, the Merchants all chose to sink thier ships right there near thier harbor downtown as to block the British invasion force from getting past Ft McHenry. Sure they hated losing the very ships that brought them food on the table... but when all bets are off, they literally sunk those merchant ships right then and there in that water and held up the english for a time.

Or... Perhas the CSA Alabama and other raiders preying on the Union Whaling fleets and other such that they could catch. Heck even in our own rivers we would interdict those who wished to run the blockade.

Or perhaps German raiders in WW1 taking down what commerce they could do. There were several ships that did good.

Or of course, the english Q shipping and the use of WW1 Destroyers in a convoy system to try and stave off complete starvation of the entire UK. I think at one point they were about a month left on food and POL during the war years.

And the Japanese? We did not have much then but what little we did have were able to get thier shots in.

And finally but NOT last, think about our own USA at home where Coastal towns were actually armed and manned with posts, weapons and in some cases even heavy coastal 16 inch guns.

Or even Malta or perhaps Russia. Now Russia was special. Look up the night of the long knives up there near Murmask. (Spelling?)

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Hungry Seagull: "Or of course, the english Q shipping and the use of WW1 Destroyers in a convoy system to try and stave off complete starvation of the entire UK. I think at one point they were about a month left on food and POL during the war years."

You are correct. Surprising to many, German U-Boats in WWI sank significantly more shipping than German U-Boats did in WWII. Partly this was due to more scattered shipping by more combatants (French cargo ships off Africa and Asia were particularly easy prey, and Count von Luckner scuttled dozens of them without firing a shot from his sailing surface raider "Seeadler"). Britain in April, 1917 was a pretty glum, cold, hungry place, suffering an endless string of disasters on land. Then the next month America declared war on Germany.

Part of the reason German revanchism was so strong after WWI was that it was so much a very, very near run thing. Imagine your favorite football team fighting off every NFL challenger, some of them vastly better-funded and larger-market, getting to the Superbowl, suffering uncounted player injuries, leading by fifteen points with a minute to play, and then losing when the opponent makes a series of player substitutions, your waterboy trips your quarterback, your coach quits and leaves the field, and your offensive coordinator forfeits the game. That's pretty much how the Germans saw it, and it's pretty close to the truth.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

UPDATE!

INSCOM has leaked a photograph of a secret encrypting device recovered by divers on the wrecked pirate craft:

 

[bigione]

everal things bother me about this. One, why does the commander on scene need Pres. Obamma to OK any action? That's like the police officer on the scene calling the Gov.
Second, what is so difficult about locating the Pirates? We used to make a complete search of the area from spain to SW Portugal to the westerm bulge of Africa on one ten hour flight with over 1000 contacts. Todays P3s have two crews and midair refueling. Locate, torpedo with no warning and shut up.
Third, how about some ballons with gasoline. Fling a few aboard the pirates' craft and let them shoot their AKS or what ever. The mussle flash should be a sight to see.

 

[Dan Crocker]

"Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it."

And what happened last time we went to Somalia? Anyone?

The American public is smart enough to now know that any operation coined as a 'quick war' against people with 'rusty AK-47s' really means a looooooong counterinsurgency and contingency operation. I've fought against peasants with AKs twice now, and I'll be the first to tell you that they are quite competent as fighters.
We have to ask ourselves: What is our end goal in this engagement? Are we going to hit the problem at the root, i.e. helping to stabilize Somalia (I'm not in favor of that) and send in land forces? Are we going to halt piracy by throwing around the Big Stick and bombing known and suspected pirate havens?
I think both of those are prohibitive in cost and manpower. To me, the simplest and most logical approach is to make the merchant ships themselves too costly for the pirates to hit through a system of convoying and arming merchantmen. Ships defend themselves against pirates, naval ships of all flags defend the ships in their convoys, and the cost in lives and materiel soon becomes prohibitive to these pirates. Find a mothership? Sink it. Going in on land? Bad idea without a clear understanding of our objectives, knowing that we will lose people and that it will take a long time.

 

[Ky Larry]

Yes, those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. We did the same half a$$ halfstepping in Somalia as we did in Lebanon in the 1980's.