dogtown tom said: That explains a lot. If the item arrives damaged is it the buyers responsibility? No, it isn't.
Then whose responsibility is it? You seem to be saying it's the seller's responsibility.
Well, common sense would tell you the buyer deserves to receive the item
as described in the auction or listing. If it arrives with a broken stock, bent barrel or missing parts.....that didn't happen did it?
One of the largest dealers in the country doesn't provide shipping insurance. They offer it but the buyer has the option to purchase the insurance if they want it. They clearly state that they are not responsible for lost or damaged items.
The buyer has no control over the method of shipping, the quality of packing or anything else.
Guess what? The credit card company will side with the buyer EVERY time. But being the number of firearms lost in shipping is pretty low that online dealer is willing to accept the risk.
Why do you charge the buyer for shipping and insurance if you believe it's the seller's responsibility?
Really? You don't know why shipping and insurance are separate charges?
1. If its an auction, the final value determines the amount of insurance.
2. Actual shipping cost is determined by weight and distance.
3. Online retailers often avoid showing the actual shipping and insurance cost by giving "free" shipping.
4."Free shipping" isn't actually "free".
5. state sales tax is also charged separately. (if the seller is required to collect it)
6. Gunbroker and other online auctions show the shipping charges separately and combines them for the total price.
Ultimately the shipper is responsible if the item is lost or stolen. How can a seller have any control over that?
Never read a shred of any carrier's tariffs have ya?
The carrier is only responsible for the terms of carriage. Both UPS & FedEx state clearly that insurance (coverage) is EXTRA.
If the seller chooses to ship a handgun via UPS Ground (a violation of UPS tariff), then UPS per their tariff can and will deny any claim for loss, damage or theft. THE SELLER MOST DEFINITELY HAD CONTROL OVER THAT ASPECT WOULDN'T YOU AGREE?
Yeah, you got your money, now it's their problem. I'm sure you'll have much success selling anything with that attitude.
This is the shipping policy of the largest online dealer in the US.
Yet Bud's will ship out a replacement immediately.
Successful? Of course they are. That's because they don't burden themselves with unneeded overhead. They give the buyer the option and expect that they will read the shipping policy. If you call them to place an order they will explain it to you.
Do you really think Bud's has no overhead when they ship?
Do you really think FedEx doesn't charge Bud's for shipping a thousand guns a day?
Unbelievable.
Why do you charge your customers for insurance if you believe that is the responsibility of the seller?
Well first......I don't charge separately. I include free shipping and insurance in the price of the sale.
You seem to believe it's the buyers responsibility to get insurance......when was the last time a buyer bought and printed out a shipping label for a gun they just bought? (hint: never)
Yes and no. I understand that a seller can't be held responsible for lost or damaged, therefor I purchase insurance when I buy and advice everyone to do the same when they buy something from me. You can't buy firearms on Ebay so what does their policy have to do with shipping firearms?
Ebay policy is common sense. They know many seller will ship using the cheapest means possible......as did the seller in the OP. No insurance, no signature on delivery= little recourse for a buyer.
Regarding "as described", the buyer always has the option to return the item I sold for a refund. Never had anything returned. Generally the carrier isn't going to deny a claim that has been insured. That's what insurance is all about, to cover loss or damage in any event.
"Generally"????
You've never dealt with UPS or FedEx on a claim have you?
I have. Their first response will be "Denied due to inadequate or insufficient packaging".
And how did you handle a shipment that was lost or stolen?
The purchaser always pays for at least some of the insurance, usually all of it, one way or another. It's either built into the price on a free shipping deal, it's built into the price of the shipping, or it's a cut out as an option for the buyer.
Well no kidding.
I guess I'm the second person in this thread that you've called an idiot. I thought people from Texas had better manners than that. At least they did when I lived there.
I've not called any THR member an idiot, but if the shoe fits..........
Edited to add:
I'm not sure you fully understand how shipping insurance works. First, the seller has to choose that coverage when he prints his shipping label. Second, whether he charges the buyer either directly or indirectly (as in "free shipping") ONLY the seller has control over whether the shipment is insured. Third, the buyer has absolutely zero control over how the seller chooses to ship the item. He could ask, he could pay extra. he could beg......but think about who actually prints the label.
Some large sellers choose to "self insure", meaning they don't actually buy the provided insurance coverage from the carrier, but have either budgeted $$$ to cover a loss or are willing to accept the occasional financial hit when a buyer has to be refunded.
That is clearly not the case with the OP. His seller chose to not insure and also chose to not ship with signature confirmation........both methods would have provided a level of service that would have required the USPS letter carrier to get a signature on delivery.
Paying with a credit card gives the buyer some level of protection in case the item never appears, isn't as described or arrives damaged.
