Texas man cleared of shooting suspected burglars

[Eric F]

I am usually late with news articles but I did not see this one.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_re_us/burglary_shooting

By JUAN A. LOZANO, Associated Press Writer
Tue Jul 1, 5:14 AM ET



HOUSTON - Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.

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Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.

After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.

"He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.

Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.

"He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.

Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."

Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.

A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.

A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.

Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."

In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

After the shooting, he redialed 911.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

 

[30 cal slob]

Ibtl

 

[watindes]

As he should be, the "castle law" applied here because they came over onto his lawn but if he went onto his neighbors lawn and killed them than he would be at fault. No lawsuit should come of it due to the face that both men were illegal immigrants, therefore no case can be made since they were here illegally.

Jesse

 

[LongRider]

Knew It

No Bill Joe what a thrill.
What a great way to wake up in the morning!!!
Yee Haw Yeah Buddy !! Go Joe !! Thank God there is still some justice in the US. Knew it was a good shoot and prayed once the jury met Joe they would know it, too. I hope every filthy low life dirt bag in the worlds sees that if they invade the US of A to rape rob and pillage they too can get a dirt nap and hang out with all the other maggots. God bless Joe for his sacrifice may his healing and recovery now be swift and complete. I pray he not lose another moments sleep over what those invaders made him do.

I HOPE Al Sharpton does not like it. Hope he and all his evil little racist black hearted rat buddies hearts are breaking. Cry baby cry.

Typical sleazy liberal reporting by the AP as usual

 

[Eric F]

Ibtl

why would this get a lock?

 

[JWarren]

why would this get a lock?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=374540

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=374391

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=354883



Short answer?

A member that has taken this as a personal cause.


-- John

 

[Eric F]

I just dont get it, seems like this threas will clear up a bunch of the arguements to me.

 

[springmom]

It might, if responses like LongRider's are the norm.

Watindes, it has nothing to do with the castle doctrine. It does have to do with Texas Penal Code sec 9.43 (1):

Protection of Third Person's Property. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, moving property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 [protection of one's own property] or 9.42 [deadly force to protect property] in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible movable property....

The relevant portion of 9.42 states that force or deadly force is justified:

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary;
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime...

I was not on the Grand Jury and didn't play a member on tv either; but I have to assume, from the finding, that because Mr. Horn prevented the imminent commission of burglary, and that he reasonably believed that theft was occurring, he was therefore no-billed.

The question of "is it right to kill over property" has been done, if you'll pardon the pun, to death here, and a search will yield you hours of reading on the topic. But legally, he was in the right.

Springmom

 

[SCKimberFan]

Any second now brentfoto will show up...

 

[22-rimfire]

When this went down, I had my doubts about his not getting convicted of a murder charge in some degree. But honestly, if more people would be willing to risk their lives to stop thiefs and potential murderers, there would be less crime. The thief not only has to be concerned about the homeowner, but now he has to be concerned about anyone who might see the thing go down and trying to stop it immediately.

 

[HKUSP45C]

I must admit I said when it went down that I wouldn't have gone outside and shot them. I also said I didn't fault Joe Horn for doing so and I was reasonably sure a Grand Jury would "walk" him for the deed. I'm glad to see my faith in the judgement of my fellow Texans was correct.

I'm happy that Joe Horn was no billed. I'm not sad a bit that two "low lifes" aren't here "low lifing" anymore.

This particular case has caused a great deal of good discussion to go on around my place of work. It's good to see it worked out in the finish.

 

[Deleted member 66305]

I am conflicted about this.

On one hand, I don't personally feel that property is worth a person's life -- but personal feelings aside, the law, as written, appears to justify what Joe Horn did; apparently, the grand jury agreed.

I am concerned that this case may encourage vigilantism, and a few bad shootings resulting from that could jeopardize concealed carry.

I am concerned the state legislature may try to restrict use of deadly force as a result of this case. Although state law permits me far more latitude than I would ever like to exercise, I sleep better knowing that I don't have to fear being a victim of the law if i ever shoot in self-defense.

I listened to Joe's 911 call. He said repeatedly that he was going out to kill them. I'm not in Joe's head, but it did sound an awful lot like bloodlust to me.

Finally, and again, this is a personal choice of mine, I feel that any time I shoot in public, I put innocent people at risk, too. I am not a perfect shot, and I will be shooting worse under pressure. If I'm potentially going to endanger passers-by, it's going to be in the gravest extreme only, if i feel my life, or that of family or close friends, is in imminent danger, and there is no reasonable alternative.

 

[BAT1]

No bill Joe Horn

I suggest that neighbor groups all over get together at the next meeting and sign letters to each other granting permission to act as their actor in case in of this. This will be like concrete. Everybody is every bodies actor, legally. I haven't heard the other side saying much. ICE is on a roll too.

 

[scrat]

This is great news. yep i remember hearing about this and reading it here of course when this happened. i hope he got his gun back too. great news his needs to be in the headlines. basicly telling thugs that people will not take it anymore. stop commiting crimes and get a job to earn a decent living.

 

[strat81]

Good news for a change.

 

[buck00]

According to the cold letter of the law he was in the right.

However, his big mistake is the argument he had with the 911 operator. You don't tell her you plan on killing them. I am amazed this comment didn't bite him in the a--.

 

[PawDaddy]

A human life; that is a soul, is worth very, very much. Jesus Christ died for EVERYONE. But a person can only benefit from that sacrifice if they do what God has commanded. We do have a free will to do as we chose.

Those two "played the game" one too many times. I am glad that Mr. Horn was not charged with anything.

I hope that other thugs will take notice of what has happened. And, especially of what didn't happen to Mr. Horn!

When a person continues doing bad things it will eventually catch up with him. If not in this life, definately on Judgement Day.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Very good news.

Let's hope the feds don't move against him.

Mike

 

[Big Boomer]

If I was thinking about burglarizing some place and knew there to be a high possibility of DEATH to occur doing it, I don't think I'd likely take that chance.

I mean how many of us speed down a mountain with no guard rails squealing the tires on each turn? Maybe once when we were younger if you survived but as you get older and wiser that wonderful wisdom kicks in.

What we are really saying is that burglary=death. Odds are getting higher that this will be your last attempt, care to roll the dice?

When more and more of these home invasions ends up with a dead guy(s) and makes the news people will start to talk, and perhaps go to robbing helpless old ladies. Then we'll have to fight to get all the old ladies to carry guns too.

The crime will continue, criminals will be criminals and continue to look for the easiest prey. Suddenly an unoccupied house is no longer escape free, now you have to worry about the neighbors shootin your a$$ too!

It's like putting a sign on your door "use of deadly force authorized beyond this point. Enforcement is guaranteed."

 

[Starship1st]

I wish I had neighbors to depnde on like Joe Horn. There would be less crime.

 

[Soybomb]

My understanding is that the actual shooting was witnessed by a detective. Given that he didn't arrest Horn there seems to speak volumes about how things looked at the scene. Further my understanding is that the 2 guys were in Horns yard, threatening horn, one ran toward horn, and they were shot from a distance of 15 feet away. If we put aside the issue of how wise it is for Horn to say what he did to 911 or for Horn to leave his house, I don't see any question with him actually pulling the trigger.

A man is in his front yard, 2 bad guys half his age are 15 feet away from him threatening him, one starts to move toward him. What else was he to do? Run? Fist fight?

I hope I have neighbors like Mr. Horn who are willing to look out for me. I also wouldn't mind criminals knowing their occupation is dangerous.

 

[give]

io totally agree with the right to protest your self and family and property,that part is a no brainer,but it does say he shot them both in the back,if thats the case how was he is fear of his life?

 

[TexasRifleman]

,but it does say he shot them both in the back,if thats the case how was he is fear of his life?

Remember that a police officer witnessed the entire thing.

As I've read it the 2 burglars, once confronted, moved TOWARDS Mr Horn, into his own yard.

He fired at one and the other turned to the side, exposing his back at an angle, but not moving away necessarily, more oblique. Still not moving directly away.

The way I read it the movement sounded more like jockeying for position than retreating. If someone is moving for cover to continue their attack the fight isn't over yet.

When a guy with a shotgun yells at you, turning and approaching him is probably going to be seen as an aggressive move.

And of course we'll never know for sure since the Grand Jury data is all sealed.

 

[Taptaps]

What gets me is his eagerness to be a hero as he perceived it and protect his neighbors property. So willing to go out of his way to do what he wanted to believe was right. He had no fear for his life before he exited the house with his gun and as I perceive it, none when outside.

He shot two people in the back.

He comes back on the line and , sounding a bit distraught now, as I am sure the reality of his actions have grabbed his mind and starts talking about how he didn't want to, but they just came at him and on to his property. Nevermind the fact that the man that lies dead on the ground is still in the neighbors yard.

This man knew he did something wrong a moment after it was done. It is clear as day in his voice. I feel sorry for the fool.

 

[TexasRifleman]

This man knew he did something wrong a moment after it was done.

Well no, he didn't do anything wrong. That's what no-billed means.

The rest of it he can debate with God but here on Earth he's innocent.