The 642 club

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Ammo poll list: draft 3.1

Thanks, JT.

* 80 gr. Glaser Safety Slug
* 110 gr. Cor-Bon DPX +P
* 110 gr. Federal Low Recoil HS/JHP
* 125 gr. Remington Golden Saber +P
* 125 gr. Speer Gold Dots +P
* 125 gr. Winchester JHP +P
* 129 gr. Federal Hydra-shok JHP +P
* 135 gr. Speer Gold Dot +P
* 148 gr. Federal Gold Medal Match full wadcutter
* 158 gr. Buffalo Bore FBI +P
* 158 gr. LSWCHP FBI +P (specify brand in post below)
* 158 gr. Magtech Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) +P
* 158 gr. Speer TMJ +P
* Home brew reloads (specify by posting below)
 
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I'm no expert...
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Sir fiVe,

I'm beginning to think that "expert" is a property of a "thread" (*)
that manifests from the collective intelligence of a group of people ...

All the more impressive that none of us (or at most a few) have ever met.

Ah, the virtues of the Internet.

Hope to meet you all some day while sharing a dinner of venison, potatoes, greens and wine.

(*) thread: the name given to a collection of words written in "cyberspace",
stored as 0's and 1's on a magnetic disc...
 
All the more impressive that none of us (or at most a few) have ever met....
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Funny thing, whenever I log on, I feel like I am walking into the old country store, There is the old pot belly stove with the mismatched chairs all around, the coffee pot going. There is Nem and five, rocking away, killshot and massmark over in the corner, jad and dadams at the counter, DawgFvr, fakename, loplop and holydoc milling around the stove, everyone else is there too. Greeting all around whenever anyone walks in like you have been living in the small town you whole life.....

Must be getting late, or maybe I am getting old.
 
...maybe I am getting old
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JT, may I humbly suggest:
omit "old" from your vocabulary.

"Old" is a state of mind.

If you don't think "old",
you won't be "old".

I will be older,
and, thus, wiser.

But I will never be "old".
 
jt1: yep! That's exactly it. :cool:

jad0110: how do you plan on cleaning and sizing your brass?

MassMark: you know the saying: "an armed society is a polite society." :D
 
Not Older - Wiser...

jt1: "Funny thing, whenever I log on, I feel like I am walking into the old country store, There is the old pot belly stove with the mismatched chairs all around, the coffee pot going. There is Nem and five, rocking away, killshot and massmark over in the corner, jad and dadams at the counter, DawgFvr, fakename, loplop and holydoc milling around the stove, everyone else is there too. Greeting all around whenever anyone walks in like you have been living in the small town you whole life.....

Must be getting late, or maybe I am getting old."
Click to expand...

That sums it up eloquently. I'm a new member with only a few posts, however I'm no stranger to cyberspace, nor to forums. It's a rare occasion when one logs onto a thread - any thread and finds such a diverse and friendly group of people, with a broad and deep knowledge base to boot.

I see no "flame wars" only respectful discussion. On many boards, respectful discussion often comes at the expense of censorship. It's nice to see a place where censorship comes from within the self - rather than at the discretion of a moderator behind a keyboard.

I would be honored to stand next to any one of you on the firing line and hope one day a "642 Club Annual Afternoon Shoot And Evening Grog Festival" (SCAASAEGF for short) will take place. I'd travel far to while the hours away with such a fine group of people.

I don't think you're getting older jt1, but to burn a cliche, just wiser. At 41, I'm far from old, but have traveled enough in this life to appreciate a place that feels like home - especially out there in the murky soup of the internet. Call it an island in a sea of insanity. In any case, thanks all for the warm welcome and interesting conversation. Looking forward to more.....
 
My Stainless and Aluminum Spring Collection

I've been reading this thread and waiting for my 642 since I joined THR. My CHL finally arrived on Thursday so I ran over to Academy and purchased my 642. I've always been a wheel gun guy but haven't been involved in shooting sports for a long time. I'm glad to be involved again and I know the 642 will be a good brother to my 6" 686 that I got in 1984. Here is a picture of my Spring Collection.

I'd like to get some feedback from anyone who is back pocket carrying their 642. I was a little disappointed that the rear pocket of my current jeans is just a little to short to conceal the handle even without a pocket holster. My hope was that the Pocket Defender Convertible 2-in-1 from K&D Holsters http://www.kdholsters.com/basefile/pdc.html or the Mika would work for a back pocket solution. If someone is doing this I'll buy the holster and start shopping for jeans that will work.

Now I'm on a quest for a local source for some of the personal defense loads you've been discussing.

We're heading to the range this afternoon so I'll get to try it out for the first time.
 

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Nem said:
I will be older,
and, thus, wiser.
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I totally agree and could not have said it better.


jt1 said:
I feel like I am walking into the old country store..........
Click to expand...

MassMark said:
Call it an island in a sea of insanity.
Click to expand...

jt1/MassMark: Perfect descriptions. This place is good because we are comprised of good people. And, yes, as a whole, we are (or are fast becoming) experts on the 642.

So proud & thankful to be a part of this group,
fiVe
 
Indy5000 - Welcome to club 642. We are happy to have you with us. Nice collection you have there. While I have never tried a back pocket carry it would be very interesting to see the eyes of a BG when confronted with a wallet full of 642!!, please let us know when you find something that works for you. I see in your pic you have some semi-jacketed rounds. What are they, how do you like them?
 
Welcome Indy!

Welcome aboard Indy - I'm a newcomer as well, but pull up a chair - these guys are top-shelf.... :cool:

As for back pocket carry, I'm interested as well. I just ordered a round Mika, but asked in my E-mail is BPC was an option with a square cut - no reply yet. I used to carry my Colt Defender in my back pocket, (believe it or not). It was not too uncomfortable once I got used to it, but became unsettling as my weight and shifting thereof often clicked off the safety and I always carried condition 1. I later switched to a small of the back carry, (which had it's ups and downs). I'm a big guy, (6'4" 265) and think it would be easier to lean to one side and retrieve my 642 from a back pocket, rather than try to fish it out of my front pocket while seated in the car. I have also considered cross draw.

Anyway, ramble over....;)
 
I have also considered cross draw.
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I think that may be the direction I'm going, too, Mark. I'm even thinking some kind of shoulder rig in addition to cross draw (different clothing, different times of year, etc).

I've even fancied a double shoulder rig: Model 60 3" or 686 2.5" on the left side (for right hand draw) and 642 on the right side (for left hand draw as BUG).

I often dry fire practice left-handed with my 642, and shoot it a fair amount at the range as lefty. I'm right handed, but left eye dominant, so shooting it lefty is actually easier and more accurate for me than right handed. And it just feels comfortable in my left hand.

I'll let the right hand handle the .357M's, though. :uhoh:
 
Indy

My 642 is carried in a K&D Defender combination holster, but I took the back pocket panel off. I ordered the combination holster just to have the option of back pocket carry if I ever decided for it. The panel makes the weapon conceal pretty well, but as you have said, it rides too high and the grip sticks out the top of the pocket. The only back pockets I have capable of completely concealing the 642 are the ones on my Carhart overalls which I mostly wear at home in the yard or garden. About the only thing carried in my back pockets is my flat checkbook, and my P3AT goes in my bike jersey pocket when riding. Everything else goes in the front ones as suggested by a chiropractor to ease low back pain. He was correct, it did help alleviate some of the stress. I guess you could add fabric to a rear pocket to conceal the grips, but that would take a lot of work to add to every pair of pants you wear.
 
Back pocket carry would definately give easier access to the weapon when seated in a vehicle, though, if you didn't want to carry crossdraw. That might be an interesting experiment to carry that way for a while when you are driving just to see how comfortable/uncomfortable it could be. My normal procedure is to stick the weapon between the console and the seat for easy access, but there have been a few times when I have gotten out of the vehicle and forgotten to retrieve the gun. If it stayed in your back pocket that would never happen.
 
jad0110: how do you plan on cleaning and sizing your brass?
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I'm not sure that I will clean my brass. Brass cleaning is considered by many reloaders to be optional, especially since I'll be using Carbide (vice steel) dies. I've met several gentleman at the local range that reload. None clean their brass. BTW, one of them let me shoot his Kimber 1911. That thing was scary accurate!

The one advantage that cleaning gives you is that you can more easily spot signs of wear (cracking, scaley appearance) or excessive pressures (stretching of the case near the head). So I'll probably buy and read one more reloading manual (Lyman 48th ed most likely) before I make my final decision.

As for sizing, the Lee carbide dies are supposed to do an excellent job of resizing the cases back into spec. That's not just Lee's words, but those of many other reloaders over on the reloading forum. I asked the guy at Kempf Gun Shop about the need for a case trimmer and chamfer tool, and he confirmed that for reloading handgun ammo with the dies I had selected, that resizing the cases by hand shouldn't be necessary. He competes in CAS (obviously doing lots of reloading) and has never needed to resize a case by hand. I'm sure other brands of pistol dies do the same basic stuff as the Lee. Rifle cartridges are a different story, from what I understand.

Keep in mind that I'm a reloading NOOB, so others please step in to correct me if I'm wrong. I won't be offended, I promise!

I did finish my bench today, yipee :D ! Got the press mounted. I still have to attach/adjust all the dies, powder dispenser, primer feeder, etc. I'll take my time with that, I'm currently rereading the two manuals I have, and may wait until I read a third.

I am looking forward to shooting light 148 grain wadcutter target loads in my 642!
 
Jad

+1 on Lee dies. That's all I have and they were very economical. I went for a little over a year reloading before I gave in and bought a Frankford Arsenal tumbler ($50 from my local gunshop). Clean cases are less abrasive to the dies and your fingers don't stay as filthy as they do when you don't clean. Plus that tumbler makes your cases so, so shiny. The gentleman who tutored me when I began reloading had never tumbled a single case for over 25 years, but when I got my tumbler, he got one too.
As far as reading manuals,..... read,... read,... read. Safety is a big issue, especially when charging cases. Everything is covered in the manuals. Speer, Lyman, Lee even has their own manual (really good information for lead bullets.) Did I mention reading manuals? You can never read too much.:)
 
Once you get your handgun cases trimmed to uniform length you probably will never have to trim those cases again before they wear out. Straight wall cases don't stretch like bottleneck cases. I tumble after I lube just to clean off the lube.
 
jad0110: I would certainly invest in a case tumbler. Just picking up brass leaves my hands a mess, I can't imagine how messy things get after multiple reloads.

KillshotRB: I've never had the 442 get "sticky" due to expansion, but I have had it get sticky from powder fouling. My wife likes these reloaded 38 spl. target loads, and I tried some... VERY dirty, and after a 75 or so of those I had to wipe the cylinders off due to all the powder reside. Nice soft shooters, though!

I picked up a friend for my 442 today:
163072_large.jpg


I made a firm decision to trade away my Kahr PM9, I just enjoyed j-frame pocket carry so much more. The PM9 was a little less noticeable in some pants, but not much. It's no 32ACP-sized pocket pistol. And it was harder for me to draw (from a desantis nemesis) than a snubby. Add to that it made me bleed (slide bite, I guess) and I just enjoyed shooting the 442 more (although I do shoot the PM9 marginally better).

Anyway, now if I buy myself another Kramer pocket holster (lefty) I could have 2 j-frame snubs, one for each hand :D

I forgot the prohibition against <120gr. loads in the Scandium series revos, and the guy behind the counter sold me some 110gr. 357mag hollowpoints. I'll have to return them and get a heavier weight load. :banghead:

Should be interesting, shooting 357 mag out of that little boomer! I'll probably carry 38+P most often, I'd bet. My initial impressions are it does feel a little less like a lump of iron in the pocket (the non-M&P must be even better yet, the M&P is 13oz), and it's a nice looking piece. The front big-dot is really a great site.. And has a tritium insert.. But its usefulness is questionable, IMO, since the rear notch isn't lit. In pitch dark, you could shoot right over someone's head without knowing it. I guess it's better than a blade in lowish light, tho.

I'm hoping that I can fire my fav FBI load in this little boomer. We'll see, since its <15oz. maybe not. I'll take some calipers to the range and check pull. The manual says to do that for any of your loads, anyway.

The trigger pull isn't as nice as my 442, but I'll put a few hundred rounds downrange next week and see how it improves. Oh, the hardship. :D
 
Ordered Some Accessories Today...

Sorry if this is old rehash for you guys, but I just ordered some accessories for my 642CT. My wife kind of gets this "glazed look" when I talk about gun stuff, so I just needed to outlet on those who get it... ;)

First, I ordered a Round Cut Mika Pocket Holster - what a deal for only 15-bucks! I impulsively bought a Fobus Paddle Holster this week at a gun shop and really hate it. The gun sticks and it does not conceal well, so I think I'm going to take it back and save up for a nicer rig when I can spare the cash. I also picked up two HKS Speedloaders. This was a tough decision, as I like the Safariland Comp 1's and liked the looks of one offered by Buffer Tech, but liked the "grip-a-bility" of the HKS Speedloaders in my gorilla mitts. I seemed to fumble with the Safarilands getting them out of my pocket.

Beyond ammo, (1k inbound soon), does anyone have any other suggestions?

BTW, I got to experience my 642CT in the raw today, (without the lasergrips). I have to say, I much prefer the feel of the CT grips over stock. I find I could shoot more with the CT installed. I'm also amazed at how accurate this gun is, (though I am not yet). It reminds me of my 3" ParaOrd and how shocked I was at the groups I got with that 45. Anyway, I put another 100 downtown this afternoon. I'm torso-accurate, but am still trying to get used to the sight set up and longer trigger pull. I seem to be anticipating the hammer drop and that is affecting my accuracy greatly. Looks like I need more practice, but that's the fun part anyway right?

Have a great weekend everyone - thanks for letting me ramble....

PS: Lolpop - WOW!! Man, I really like the looks of that M&P!!! Congrats on your buy - looks like a keeper! :cool:
 
Thanks, Mark :D

Some tips: dry fire practice every day for a bit, just until your finger tires. (MAKE SURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED! DOUBLE CHECK!) A week or so of this helped me a lot; my trigger finger was weaksauce from all the years of sweet 1911 triggers. Heck, I couldn't shoot more than 3 or 4 cylinders full when I first bought it, or my groups would open significantly. Weak finger :banghead:

Dry fire helped a lot, and it also helped me learn a steady DA pull. It's kinda heavy on the x42, so you do have to get used to it.

Something else that helped: I used to use the pad of my index finger to shoot my 1911's. I felt I had more control that way. This was really making the DA pull rough... I switched to putting the first crease/joint of my finger on the trigger, and my groups tightened immensely.

After a few weeks of regular 1 or 2x a week snub shooting, I got quite a bit better.

As for holsters, I really REALLY like my Kramer pocket holster. $85, so not cheap. It's a dream, tho. Search back a few pages; I posted some photos of the holster itself (both sides, with the 442 in it) and also of the holster in my pocket. I highly recommend it. I personally don't carry my snubs any other way; if I'm going with a belt gun, it will be a semiauto.

HTH!

Side note: Notice there's no prohibition against <120gr loads on the barrel of the M&P. Is this M&P different in that regard than the lighter Titanium cylinder 340PD? Anyone know?
 
MassMark

This Jerry Miculek trigger technique spot on Shootingusa.com may help you with your technique. The sticking your trigger finger further on the trigger to contact the frame is something I've been doing naturally, but I always thought it was incorrect. He uses it to help stage the trigger for the most accurate shots. I wish my computer savy sons were here to help me figure out how to send you this in a little better way, but here's the written audio.


PRO TIPS with JERRY MICULEK - LESSON 4

Trigger Control

Today’s lesson is going to be on trigger control. You can probably spend twenty-five years like I have trying to do it correctly, but I’ll show you some techniques that I use, to get you there a little bit sooner.


What I’m trying to do whenever I shoot a revolver of course is to get square on the face of the trigger and I never ever want my finger to leave the face of the trigger anywhere during the firing sequence.


One thing you’ll want to remember about a trigger is, it’s a lever like any other lever. If you hold it up short, it’s going to be hard to pull. If you hold it down long, it’s going to be easier to pull. So what that means to the shooter is if you have strong hands, there’s nothing wrong with grabbing high on the trigger.


If you are a little weak, go ahead and use the bottom of the trigger. It makes for the same performance but one’s easy and one’s hard. The next method of shooting a revolver is called staging a trigger and what that entails is that you grab the revolver in a standard firing mode, but you work your trigger really quick to the rear and that will index the cylinder fully and it will cock the hammer about three quarter of the way and with the last of the trigger pull, get a perfect sight of a alignment, and you press the trigger straight to the rear. This technique is really good on a hard shot or a long range target. It takes up about three quarters of the trigger pull and all you have to do is finish it off and make a real accurate shot.

The next trigger technique we are going to talk about is using the trigger finger as a trigger stop and to accomplish this you have to put your finger further than you normally would with an idea that, as you go through the double action mode, the end of the finger contacts the frame and that gives you a good indication of when you are going to break the shot so you just have a small bit of finger pull, to finalize and make a good trigger pull right there, right at the end.


Anytime you use your finger as a trigger stop, this technique works out really well. If you have a really difficult shot or your shooting a PPC match, or something that requires a fine level of accuracy. It gives you a definite timing to when the shot is going to fire so you can clean it up and make a real good pull and keep it in the x-ring. A good place to try this technique is in the prone position when you want a real accurate shot.

Okay guys, we’re going to review what we did on these techniques, give you some input. Rapid fire you’ll want your finger right on the face of the trigger, just use the pad. For slow fire, for a little bit more accurate shot, you might want to put your finger through a little bit and stage it.

And of course, if you want to get a little bit more precise than either of those other two, you can put your finger all the way through and use it for a trigger stop, and let it contact the edge of the frame allowing you to really know when the shot is going to break and make a really super accurate shot. See you guys next time.

2005, TIER ONE MEDIA, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
 
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