The 642 club

[ARTiger]

TEL: That's some awesome math skill. Uncanny. Only think though is that if you need an expanded bullet's dimension to complete the formula, wouldn't you have the ability to just measure it's penetration at that time?

I am still going shoot some soggy newspaper. Mainly because it's fun. Also, I want to make a wall display for my "gun room" with a full cartridge, unfired bullet and fired, expanded round side by side. I saw one of these in a gun shop years ago and it looked really nice.

 

[jt1]

loplop - All the results I used quoted calibrated gelatin numbers, some were quite close and others seemed to be unrelated on the same site. There are apparently many variables involved here and hopefully these admittedly ballpark calculations will be close enough to give us some guidance.

TEL - That sure is a lot of numbers! Thought you said you were not an engineer? You're just trying to get fiVe to award you a title aren't you? Maybe TEL the Tabulator or Sir CALCUTEL? You lost me about half way in, But my goal here is to find the most effective round for our 642's and if your formula will do that then you deserve a knighthood.

acerman - Are you having problems with your little monster or just looking for improvements? How many rounds have you fired? These actions get better with use. PS..don't worry about changing the subject here, that is what keeps us moving along and getting better and better....

 

[TEL]

ARTiger - Your observation is right on. If you need the expansion information, then you need to test fire anyway. So, I tired it again with only published information and came up with the following formula for penetration.

0.138837122 times Velocity minus

0.214234396 times Energy plus

0.50777268 times Weight minus

130.8473062

These are all published figures, not test figures. The results are as follows

Cor-Bon DPX +P
Actual 13.125
Computed 13.158
Buf Bore SWCHP +P
Actual 13.000
Computed 13.022
Buf Bore Speer GD +P
Actual 12.900
Computed 12.848
LSWCHP FBI +P
Actual 11.900
Computed 11.891
Speer Gold Dot +P
Actual 9.725
Computed 9.732

Not perfect, but close! The advantage of a formula, if it works, is that you can apply it to ammo that's not yet been actually tested to get an approximate penetration figure.

 

[fiVe]

Nem the Great - Am I worthy enough to learn the secret of The List?

jt1: The following quote is Nem's exact words from The 336 Club

This list was obtained by clicking on the number in the "replies" column for this thread. A separate window opens listing names of those who have replied along with their reply number.

You're just trying to get fiVe to award you a title aren't you? Maybe TEL the Tabulator or Sir CALCUTEL?

This gave me quite a chuckle, but ya know, it fits. It is obvious TEL is quite the engineer, so henceforth and heretofore, TEL shall be known as Sir CALCUTEL of the 642 Club Round table. Let it be so recorded and let it be so remembered.

SO MUCH quality content! I'm really likin' this place!

Peace, fiVe

 

[michael_aos]

Bought my 642 yesterday.

Now I need a good pocket-holster.

 

[wera72]

Mika pocket holster, of course!!!

 

[fiVe]

michael_aos: Welcome to the club. A Mika pocket holster is the best, IMO. I have a round-cut that is perfect! You can get to Robert's website -->here.

 

[AStone]

Nem the Great

Awe, come on, guys. You're gonna swell my head up if you keep that stuff up.

Shucks. Twarn't nothin'. I just like to click on things on the screen to see what they do. When I clicked on "replies" (or rather the number of replies for the club) for the first time, up it popped. No genius there.

Then, I realized that I could cut the names out of the window, paste them into a word processor (that's Open Office writer, for me; open source freeware that is better than MS Word), convert the table to text, then hit sort (alphabetic), and viola, it's done. Two minutes max.

FiVe, glad it helped. I can still do the 336 and 39A roster by hand (though I won't now), but doing that for this thread ... wow, forget about it. Now, you don't have to.

Nem, the lesser

 

[michael_aos]

Mika pocket holster is the best

Ordered.

..will appear on your bill as "PAYPAL *MIKASPOCKET"

Mike

 

[MassMark]

Back In Bidness....

I have to say, Smith and Wesson is a class act. I sent them my CT Lasergrips due to a missing elevation screw. Initially, they were slow out of the gate, (couldn't find them), but were super nice and friendly when I called. Opened my PO Box today and bingo! Brand new Crimson Trace grips - complete with an elevation screw. Popped em on, sighted them in and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom....center mass. Going to leave them alone for now, as they hit at close range right about where they should. May tweak them later. Anyway, I'm back to having a 642CT...

Now a couple of questions if you will my good 642-ers. First, care and cleaning. I have developed quite a "cooked look" on the front of my cylinder. I have a coat of Hoppes-9 on it at the moment - any other suggestions? Also, is there any good reason for me to pop off the side-cover, or should I just lube the spring and be done with it? Lastly, is removing the cylinder from the gun a big task? I "eyeballed" it, but am unsure how, or even if I should.

Really lastly, I have been consumed with the ammo talk on thes pages. Absolutely astounding, (insert applause). The mathematics did kick in my ADD for a minute, but I've recovered....

My question is about ranges when testing. Is there any data on bullet energy from close range? Say 1-5 feet? The reason I ask is that in my mind, that is where any confrontation I may encounter will likely happen with my 642CT. I read test data on pistol rounds from 10-feet to 10-yards. Since my carry gun is more likely to be used closer in, I was curious if there's any real data on "point blank" effects of differing ammunition?

Welcome to all new members - these guys are top-shelf. Michael_aos: I cannot recommend my Mika Pocket Holster enough!

 

[ARTiger]

MassMark> The silicone impregnated gun cloths you'll see at WalMart and other places will do well to gently buff your cooked cylinder, etc. Don't get too agressive cleaning your cylinder front with anything that'll remove any metal. Will over time cause the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone to widen which harms velocity and accuracy. And, by all means don't use anything abrasive on the frame. It has a coating on it which will come off.

Also, under 15 yards, there is no appreciable drop in velocity from the muzzle speed quoted. Bullets drop off in velocity based on their weight, and ballistic coefficient of the bullet (air drag). All things being equal, pointy bullets hold velocity longer than those with wide meplats.

 

[acerman]

jt1,
Thanks for the reply. I am looking to improve the factory trigger pull.It's new only about 50 rds through it.Is the improvement from use pretty noticeable? My trigger is pretty heavy. Wish I had a a trigger gage.

 

[jt1]

MassMark - To remove your cylinder see this link:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2679861&postcount=2

acerman - Mine became quite smoother after a few hundred rounds, others report quite an improvement at about 1000 rounds. It will remain "heavy" as this is a function of spring weight and not subject to wear-in. Be aware this is part of the design, you don't want to get too "light" or you will encounter reliability and safety problems. There is also the issue of legal considerations when altering a SD gun. I am sure others 642'ers with more experience will comment on this issue and enlighten us further.

michael_aos - Welcome to club 642. We are happy to have you here and welcome your input. Nice pic (I never get tired of seeing these little handfuls)

 

[MassMark]

ART and jt1 - Thanks for the tips!

 

[TEL]

jt1 ... fiVe

Sir CALCUTEL! I'm honored!!!

Back in the old days when CB radios were popular, my buddies dubbed me "The Numbers Man."

Actually, I had 1 year of engineering in college, but engineering was so demanding I didn't have any time to "play" -- so I switched to business. My career was in finance and investments (now retired).

Again, thanks guys. Hope I can continue to contribute in the future.

 

[jad0110]

Now a couple of questions if you will my good 642-ers. First, care and cleaning. I have developed quite a "cooked look" on the front of my cylinder. I have a coat of Hoppes-9 on it at the moment - any other suggestions? Also, is there any good reason for me to pop off the side-cover, or should I just lube the spring and be done with it? Lastly, is removing the cylinder from the gun a big task? I "eyeballed" it, but am unsure how, or even if I should.

For guns with stainless steel cylinders ONLY (like the 642), I use a Lead Away cloth to great effect. Completely removes the burn rings without removing metal. Your gun shop should have them in stock.

As for popping off the sideplate, read moderator XavierBreath's blog on the subject. It recommends an excellent book, tools, and techniques:

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/07/cracking-open-smith-wesson.html

BTW, removing the cylinder makes it a lot easier to clean.

Removing the cylinder isn't hard, just be sure to use a good gunsmithing screwdriver that fits the forward most screw on the sideplate. That is the only one you have to remove. After removing the screw, swing open the cylinder. While holding the cylinder in place, slide out the crane and yolk assembly as one piece. Done! After cleaning the yolk and cylinder barrels I lightly coat them with a gun grease. Reinstallation is the reverse of the above. You hold the cylinder where it belongs and slide the crane/yolk assembly back into place and reinstall the screw.

Sir CalcuTEL,

Using the calculations, I figure the new standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr. LSWCHP would get around between 13"+ of penetration in a 1 7/8" snubbie. At least according to the formula, that puts the standard pressure Buf Bore above the +P FBI Load!

Actually the formula put the penetration depth at about 14", but the velocity/ME data on Buffalo Bore's website is based on a 2" barrel, so I rounded everything down for the x42's slightly shorter 1 7/8" barrel.

 

[M38]

I picked up a 642 yesterday. I wanted to get a pocket gun and after a lot of research, thought and advise I decided to go with the reliability of a revolver.
One quiestion - what do you guys use to carry spare ammo? Speed strip?

 

[MassMark]

M-38: Welcome to the 642 Club! You made a wise decision. I've had mine for a few weeks now and am more impressed with it every time I shoot it. I have two HKS Speedloaders and they're "okay" - the unit will not clear the frame, so it takes a lot of practice. SpeedStrips seem to be in favor, but I'm looking at other options, (Safariland, BufferTech).....

jad0110: Thanks so much for the advice. It's been fun getting to know this gun. I just cleaned out my car of the empty boxes and realize that I've gone through 490 rounds already! This has to be up there with the most frequently fired handgun of my life. Seems like I'm addicted.

 

[loplop]

My question is about ranges when testing. Is there any data on bullet energy from close range? Say 1-5 feet? The reason I ask is that in my mind, that is where any confrontation I may encounter will likely happen with my 642CT. I read test data on pistol rounds from 10-feet to 10-yards. Since my carry gun is more likely to be used closer in, I was curious if there's any real data on "point blank" effects of differing ammunition?

Try this to see what a contact snub shot looks like

As stated above, most testing is done at some distance less than 15 yards. Since there's no apprciable lost of velocity over that distance, test results will be nearly identical between 1 and 45 feet. Unless you count muzzle blast, as shown above. That would hurt.

 

[ARTiger]

I picked up a 642 yesterday. I wanted to get a pocket gun and after a lot of research, thought and advise I decided to go with the reliability of a revolver.
One quiestion - what do you guys use to carry spare ammo? Speed strip?

Welcome M38. Yes speed strips are popular because of their flat profile. Some use speedloaders like the HKS brand some even slip a few loose rounds in the 'ol pocket. Personally I use speed strips when wearing light clothing and printing is an issue. Otherwise, I'll carry a speedloader (or two) which is typically faster. Although, with practice you can get quite fast with speed strips which can load 2 rounds at a time.

 

[jad0110]

M-38, welcome to the club! I carry 1 or 2 reloads in HKS speedloaders, but would like to try out the Safariland Comp I sometime. I carry the reloads even though, statistically, civilians rarely fire more than 4 rounds in SD (usually none at all).

jad0110: Thanks so much for the advice. It's been fun getting to know this gun. I just cleaned out my car of the empty boxes and realize that I've gone through 490 rounds already! This has to be up there with the most frequently fired handgun of my life. Seems like I'm addicted.

I've fired about the same number of rounds from my 642, but I've had it since last May . New dad responsibilities have been keeping me from the range.

Lop,

I saw that photo a few weeks ago. Yeah, that looks like it would hurt a wee bit .

All,

There is lots of talk going on over in "Legal and Political" and "Activism" about the VT massacre. I hope everyone here is at least considering writing their representatives to let them know where you stand. Our rights to carry (and even possess) our snubs and other arms is at stake. There are lots of good letter templates and other resources over on those two forums if you just don't have the time.

Make yourself heard!

 

[jt1]

loplop - Thanks for the link. I will file that in the back of my head somewhere and try to avoid doing that if possible, sounds kinda messy. Don't want BG all over my shiny 642.

M38 - Welcome to the club. We are always happy to have a new friend. After trying various reload carry options I have been using speed strips configured as shown in the pic below. This is the fastest way for me to reload and although I am giving up one round using this method I have found that it takes me just as long to load the fifth single round as it does to load all four rounds loading two at a time. I load two and pull up to release from the strip, then without changing my grip I load the other two and pull down to release the last two. Drop the strip and close the cylinder. I find that about 80% of the time I can get the empty chamber to close under the firing pin and I am ready to go. When I don't get the proper alignment it is just a matter of an immediate action drill (click, bang) which is good training anyway. With this method I can also just load two and go if I need more rounds right now. Like anything else it takes practice but can I reload a lot faster than I can type. As has been noted before in a normal threat environment it is unlikely you will need to reload to reduce a threat but you just never know and I will continue to practice. I like speedloaders as well and they can be very fast with practice but the speed strips are so easy for me to carry I almost always go with them.

 

[fiVe]

M38: Welcome. I carry extra ammo in a speed strip. It fits my pocket carry configuration (a Mika round-cut) the best.

loplop: Thanks for posting that brassfetcher link. This is further proof about the capabilities of this pocket mule. I would not want to be on the receiving end of that.

 

[6Gunslinger]

Say hello to my new little friend.... the venerable 642!

Hi guys, this is my first post ever. I've been lurking around for a while, taking in all the wisdom.... and it is greatly appreciated! You guys helped me out with my first 2 gun purchased - big time! I bought a K-22 5-screw 6" a few months back to get started and it has been an absolute pleasure to shoot and a wonderful learning tool! Yesterday I aquired my first defense gun -- a brand new 642-2 on sale for $385. I don't yet have a CCW, but once I get some practice under my belt the 642 will serve duty for home security (I live in a small condo), glove compartment duty (when driving through the "questionable" neighborhoods) as well as the occasional carry once I have my CCW.

Well I just wanted to say thanks! I have read every post in the 642 club... probably more then once! I know some of you may not agree that the 642 is the best "first gun" but I feel my K-22 has given me the tools that I need to move on.... a steel snub would just be too heavy if/when I decide to pocket carry, and I'm not particularly worried about the recoil... I also like the fact that the 642 won't rust, etc... and the hamerless design gives it a nice sense of safety... and it lacks all the do-dads of an autoloader (which I have no desire to delve into yet) It was also relatively cheap for the quality and I didn't have a whole lot of cash...

I haven't been to the range with it yet, so we'll see how I feel about all this then I guess, but I'm looking forward to it.

I'm also looking forward to being a part of your guys club as well as the revolver forum if you'll have me... someday I may have an autoloader but for now I'm all about the revolver!!! Thanks again for all the info! I'll talk to you all soon.

Hang tight!

 

[glockman19]

6Gunslinger,

Congrats and welcome. Glad all of the posts were helpfull.