The 9.3 Dollar Question: Ruger or CZ?

[Maverick223]

Sounds like you found your rifle...if you don't mind leaving a range report after you pick one up that'd make for an interesting read (FWIW, I have plans to purchase that rifle's little sister, the CZ 527FS in either .22Hornet or .223Rem.).

 

[Googleplex]

Myself, I'll take a CZ over a Ruger any day I've found Ruger's accuracy to be hit and miss (no pun intended) but, the CZ's seem to be pretty consistent in the accuracy department. I have a CZ527 in .204 that puts factory ammo 5 shot groups around 3/4" and my hand loads under 1/2" quite often. My 452 rimfire is also a tack driver.

That's what I've decided. It'll be a while before I can order, but that's where I'm headed eventually.

Both are very good shooters rifles.

The issue to my mind is handling. They both feel different in the hand and on the shoulder.

I have played with them both, and I think the CZ looks nicer, and would probably carry a bit better - but the Ruger would likely shoot better on the shoulder, and I like the Rugers Irons over the CZ.

Coin toss for me, but If I had to pick I would say Ruger. You really couldn't go wrong with either though.
Today 03:15 PM

The ruger is nice looking, but I feel quick handling is a definate plus. As far as irons, I tend to prefer hooded sights, as they are quicker. The pad on the CZ looks very nice as well, nice enough for me to consider it despite its light weight of 7.3 pounds. The ruger is a nice looking gun as well, and nearly won out, but all in all CZ just feels more reputable to me. I'm sure both companies are very strong in product quality under normal circumstances, but I've heard of many ruger lemons, and seen one first hand. That for me raises some concerns. I guess I have more confidence in CZ. What was the pad like on the ruger you handled? I've seen 'em with that thin red pad, but never held one. It doesn't look too impressive to me, but I have no experience with it.

 

[Maverick223]

Ruger's pads, and more importantly their stock design (unless recently changed), leave quite a bit to be desired IME. One of the big reasons I ruled them out before buying my DG rifle.

 

[Googleplex]

Sounds like you found your rifle...if you don't mind leaving a range report after you pick one up that'd make for an interesting read (FWIW, I have plans to purchase that rifle's little sister, the CZ 527FS in either .22Hornet or .223Rem.).

Cool, I'll be sure to do that. It may be a few months before I get the opportunity, but I'll be sure to revive this thread with a range report if it happens to die down between now and then. The 527 is the one with detachable mag, correct?

Ruger's pads, and more importantly their stock design (unless recently changed), leave quite a bit to be desired IME. One of the big reasons I ruled them out before buying my DG rifle.

Good to know. I was definately concerned with the pad, but if the stock shape is lacking in recoil sopping ability, then I best stick with the CZ. The hard part is over, and now the long part kicks in- savings. Huzzah!

 

[waidmann]

I realize this is after the frenzy of imports but I picked up a Husqvarna commercial 96 type action, good iron (two leaf rear). I believe it will meet your criteria. Perhaps well below your max $'s. I'd suggest surfing the auction sites if your curiosity is aroused. BTW a little weight in this case isn't such a bad thing.

 

[Maverick223]

The 527 is the one with detachable mag, correct?

Yep, it's the mini-mauser with the detachable box magazine. Admittedly an odd look (particularly with the Mannlicher stock), but I like it.

 

[Googleplex]

I realize this is after the frenzy of imports but I picked up a Husqvarna commercial 96 type action, good iron (two leaf rear). I believe it will meet your criteria. Perhaps well below your max $'s. I'd suggest surfing the auction sites if your curiosity is aroused. BTW a little weight in this case isn't such a bad thing.

I don't know. I've heard the small ring mauser actions aren't as sturdy. I've looked, and I've considered, but I don't think it's for me. I've checked gunbroker, and only found actions with sightless bull barrels. (odd, I know, but it's whatever.) Where did you find your action? As far as weight goes, I origianally wanted it to be at least 8 lbs. for the purpose of recoil control. However, it seems that pad on this CZ rifle coupled with stock shape does a good job of redirecting the recoil. If it feels like they say it does, then the lighter weight of this rifle should be okay.

Yep, it's the mini-mauser with the detachable box magazine. Admittedly an odd look (particularly with the Mannlicher stock), but I like it.

I think it's pretty nice looking. I'm starting to really like the looks of mannlicher stocks. Which of the two cartridges are you leaning more towards? I think it'd be nice in .223.

 

[Maverick223]

Which of the two cartridges are you leaning more towards? I think it'd be nice in .223.

Initially I was pretty set on the .22Hornet, now I'm not so sure. I like the Hornet, but honestly my .17HMR fills that role pretty well, and I already load for the .223Rem (but one extra set of dies and new powder isn't a big deal). That being said, the .22Hornet is probably best suited to the somewhat short bbl (this may not be a popular thought, but I wouldn't have a .223Rem./5.56NATO without a barrel of at least 20in.). I don't see any advantage of the .222Rem., as it has a 1:14 twist bbl (the 1:12 on the .223Rem. is bad enough), and I don't already load for it either. In short, my choice changes from day to day...fortunately the rifle is a ways down the list so I have a little time to think about it.

 

[Googleplex]

Initially I was pretty set on the .22Hornet, now I'm not so sure. I like the Hornet, but honestly my .17HMR fills that role pretty well, and I already load for the .223Rem (but one extra set of dies and new powder isn't a big deal). That being said, the .22Hornet is probably best suited to the somewhat short bbl (this may not be a popular thought, but I wouldn't have a .223Rem./5.56NATO without a barrel of at least 20in.). I don't see any advantage of the .222Rem., as it has a 1:14 twist bbl (the 1:12 on the .223Rem. is bad enough), and I don't already load for it either.

What is the twist rate of the .22 Hornet? 1:12 for a .223 does seem kinda long.

 

[Maverick223]

The .22Hornet is a 1:16, which is a bit loose, but perfectly fine (it's the original twist after all) for the lumbering cartridge (which doesn't do particularly well with heavy bullets anyway). If they put a 1:10 or better (I prefer a 1:8) on the .223Rem. I'd settle on that chambering pretty quick...same for the triple-deuce.

 

[Gtscotty]

I got the shipping notice for the Ruger yesterday, and from what I can tell by clicking the refresh button on the tracking page every other five minutes, it should be at my FFl on Tuesday. It sounds like you're leaning toward the CZ, but if you're still interested, I should be able to post a couple pics and impressions on Tuesday.

I too heard the loud siren call of the .375 H&H, but I could not find a suitable bolt gun so chambered in my price range, at least not new. I could have gone used, but I'm still a little iffy on buying used guns over the internet, and used .375s are pretty scarce around these parts. All in all I think the 9.3 will fill the big game slot in my stable quite nicely. When I do get a .375 H&H down the road, you can bet it will be in one of those beautiful new Winchester 70 Safari Expresses... just as god intended .

The 9.3x64 Brenneke sounds like it is an excellent cartridge as well, I would think cases would be a bear to get in the us though.

The .22Hornet is a 1:16, which is a bit loose, but perfectly fine (it's the original twist after all) for the lumbering cartridge (which doesn't do particularly well with heavy bullets anyway). If they put a 1:10 or better (I prefer a 1:8) on the .223Rem. I'd settle on that chambering pretty quick...same for the triple-deuce.

I'm sure it won't be chambered in the Cz for a while, but that new 17 Hornet that Hornady is promoting sounds pretty interesting, might be just the chambering for a little 527.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm sure it won't be chambered in the Cz for a while, but that new 17 Hornet that Hornady is promoting sounds pretty interesting, might be just the chambering for a little 527.

Albeit an interesting cartridge (it has been around for ages as a wildcat), the .17Hornet honestly doesn't interest me much...way too similar to my .17HMR.

 

[Googleplex]

The .22Hornet is a 1:16, which is a bit loose, but perfectly fine (it's the original twist after all) for the lumbering cartridge (which doesn't do particularly well with heavy bullets anyway). If they put a 1:10 or better (I prefer a 1:8) on the .223Rem. I'd settle on that chambering pretty quick...same for the triple-deuce.

It sounds to me like the hornet would be the best bet in this rifle, with all things considered. the .223 would shoot flatter and farther, but you'd be pretty limited on bullet choice, as it seems they made the rifle to cater towards lighter bullet weights. It seems kinda weird that would do that.

I got the shipping notice for the Ruger yesterday, and from what I can tell by clicking the refresh button on the tracking page every other five minutes, it should be at my FFl on Tuesday. It sounds like you're leaning toward the CZ, but if you're still interested, I should be able to post a couple pics and impressions on Tuesday.

That'd be great. I'm still very curious about the Ruger's performance and feel. To me, it looks like it's gonna kick harder, but I'm not positive. How would you rate Bud's as a venue at this point?

 

[Coltdriver]

I have rifles from both makers. I am a big fan of Ruger. More recently I have become a bigger fan of CZ.

I have two CZ's and they are definitely a cut above the Ruger bolt rifles. The Hawkeye is not in the same class of rifle, plain and simple.

I am sure either would serve you just fine but if you were to compare the two side by side you would see the CZ is just a nicer rifle. If you are going to buy new contact Steele Family Enterprises 13028 S. Broughham Dr, Olathe, KS 66062 (913) 829-4197. He picks up at the CZ distribution point in KC and can get you the kind of wood you want on your rifle.

By the way, if you think the Ruger rings are unique wait until you see the CZ rings!

The one thing to check is barrel twist. I have found that you can not rely on what others do for twist when it comes to Ruger or CZ.

 

[Welding Rod]

Despite QC problems that have plagued Ruger manufacturing, I settled on Rugers as my basic rifle platform some years ago. This was due mostly to their robustness. In my experience they aren't the most accurate, the triggers aren't that good, and the matte metal finish is bland. However provided a Ruger proves to be free of machining errors from the factory, I trust it to work and to hold up. I like the strength and simplicity of the Ruger ring system. I like steel parts on my guns, and I also like my guns to be made in our Country. They are also good looking (other than the matte blued surface).

All that said I think the CZ is at least as appealing. They make some really nice rifles. The hogback stock is great for iron sights. If I was buying an iron sight bolt gun CZ would be at the top of my list.

 

[Hizzie]

Yeah, but I feel like the .375 isn't quite as versatile.

You can hunt Dik-Dik to elephant and everything in between with Holland and Holland's medium bore masterpiece. It just doesn't get anymore versatile than that.

 

[Googleplex]

I am sure either would serve you just fine but if you were to compare the two side by side you would see the CZ is just a nicer rifle. If you are going to buy new contact Steele Family Enterprises 13028 S. Broughham Dr, Olathe, KS 66062 (913) 829-4197. He picks up at the CZ distribution point in KC and can get you the kind of wood you want on your rifle.

Are they a dealer? Or just an FFL distributor? I'm no where near Kansas.

However provided a Ruger proves to be free of machining errors from the factory, I trust it to work and to hold up.

That's what I've heard, that the good ones are darn good, but I think that's true with all mauser action rifles. The mauser action is arguably the finest ever designed.

By the way, if you think the Ruger rings are unique wait until you see the CZ rings!

How do they hold up?

You can hunt Dik-Dik to elephant and everything in between with Holland and Holland's medium bore masterpiece. It just doesn't get anymore versatile than that.

Very true. But I still wouldn't feel comfortable using one on anything smaller than elk.

 

[TOU]

Googleplex,

I have owned a few Ruger centerfire...key word is owned, they are all gone now. I now own and am known to be a bit of a fan of Czech arms. I have several rimfires and small caliber 527's. I also have a a few full size Czechs including ones in .300 Win Mag and 7x64 Brenneke. I REALLY think you won't be disappointed with yours. Here is a few snapshots of my "ugly" old CZ 550 in .300 Win Mag, (the 7x64 B is even "uglier".

 

[Coltdriver]

Quote:

Are they a dealer? Or just an FFL distributor? I'm no where near Kansas.

He is an authorized CZ Dealer. And he will head over to the Kansas City Import point for CZ and get you one with nice wood. If you can put your hands on one anywhere more power to you. If you order from any dealer they will get whatever gets sent along. Some of the wood is very plain and some of it is just spectacular.

 

[TOU]

Slight topic deviation...

Initially I was pretty set on the .22Hornet, now I'm not so sure. I like the Hornet, but honestly my .17HMR fills that role pretty well, and I already load for the .223Rem (but one extra set of dies and new powder isn't a big deal)...

I'm sure it won't be chambered in the Cz for a while, but that new 17 Hornet that Hornady is promoting sounds pretty interesting, might be just the chambering for a little 527.

Albeit an interesting cartridge (it has been around for ages as a wildcat), the .17Hornet honestly doesn't interest me much...way too similar to my .17HMR.

Maverick,

I don't know...I sure have my eye on them. I actually think the 17 Hornet by Hornady could really fill a niche between your 17 HMR and ???? I have a 17 HMR, as well as a few other sub-calibers on the CZ 527 platform including 17 Rem, 19 Badger, .221 FB, 22 Hornet, .222, 223 & .204R but I am so STOKED about a factory ammo offering in the 17 HH! Not sure how long it is going to take CZ to get their act together and roll this one out or if I am going to have to re-barrel a Hornet to it. BUT...I now I am going to have one . I feel like it it will have a great place in the arsenal for varmints...especially ground squirrels.

I think it will be a phenomenal walk-a-bout that fits in between the 17 HMR and 204R/17 Rems. Think about this among other things...

• 1000 fps over an HMR
• 100+ yd reach over the HMR..making it a 275-325 yard rifle easily
• Laser like accuracy like the HM2/HMR's
• similar recoil as WMR/HMR
• mild report
• can reload it for the same $ or less than the HMR
• you can buy ammo & brass off the shelf
• so much easier to reload than the 22 Hornet
• only 10-12 grn of powder per round
• 20-25 consecutive shot abilities with out loss in accuracy
• long barrel life
• can likely stay with a standard taper barrel
• etc.

Please understand I am NOT slaming the HMR...I have two, just that it's apples and oranges and the new 17 HH can fill a serious gap between the HMR and the speed demons such as the 17 Rem & .204R's with several pluses. IMHO, it may be one of the most efficient varminting cartridges ever offered from the factory. I have a feeling it may even push the 17 FB to further obscurity as the 17 FB is only 350 fps more for 50-75% more powder. The 17 HH also has nearly 1/2 the powder of 17 Rem & 1/3 of the .204R. I think it could really be a great offering that the market will enjoy...so long as quality manufactures such as CZ chamber it early. Just something to think about...

Can't wait!!!

 

[Maverick223]

The mauser action is arguably the finest ever designed.

I agree. While it made for a mediocre (not terribly bad, but certainly not spectacular in any way) military arm, it makes for one of the best sporting arms ever designed. There are few cartridges you can't chamber it for, few parts/accessories that can't be found for it, and no question as to whether it will work when you need it. I wouldn't consider using any design not derived (and not far departed) from the Mauser 98 action for hunting large dangerous game.

Some of the wood is very plain and some of it is just spectacular.

I can attest to that, most that I have laid eyes on (in person anyway) has been lackluster and utilitarian in appearance (particularly the 550s). If there is someone that is willing to hand-select the best figured stocks (which it seems the above gentleman does upon request), I would take him up on it even if it costs a bit more (I'll probably do just that when the time comes to invest in that 527FS later on down the road).

 

[TOU]

There are few cartridges you can't chamber it for, few parts/accessories that can't be found for it, and no question as to whether it will work when you need it. I wouldn't consider using any design not derived (and not far departed) from the Mauser 98 action for hunting large dangerous game.

Amen Brother...I couldn't agree more. For me this is true for hunting period whether it be dangerous lions...or seriously scary ground squirrels. Your going to love your CZ 527 FS no matter what caliber. BTW, if I could choose a offering from CZ for the 17 HH...it would be the FS.

 

[Maverick223]

Maverick,

I don't know...I sure have my eye on them. I actually think the 17 Hornet by Hornady could really fill a niche between your 17 HMR and ????

The .223Rem. would be my next step up, though I don't really have a great need to fill the gap, so the .223Rem. is still on the table. Besides, as much as I like my .17HMR (and liked the .17HM2 before selling it), I hate cleaning it...and that is one more caliber to stock bullets for. To be perfectly honest I would rather see it in something larger (caliber wise) rather than smaller...something like the 6x45mm (AKA: 6mm-.223) or 6.5Grendel, as crazy as that may sound.

Amen Brother...I couldn't agree more. For me this is true for hunting period whether it be dangerous lions...or seriously scary ground squirrels.

Right there with ya...my primary varmint rifle: a Parker Hale Super Varmint chambered for the 6mmRem. Can't be too careful...those groundhogs have teeth!

 

[Googleplex]

Here is a few snapshots of my "ugly" old CZ 550 in .300 Win Mag, (the 7x64 B is even "uglier".

Well, that's just horrible! If that's an ugly specimen, I think I'll be satisfied with anything out of the CZ factory.

He is an authorized CZ Dealer. And he will head over to the Kansas City Import point for CZ and get you one with nice wood. If you can put your hands on one anywhere more power to you. If you order from any dealer they will get whatever gets sent along. Some of the wood is very plain and some of it is just spectacular.

I can't find a website for them. What can I expect as a price?

I agree. While it made for a mediocre (not terribly bad, but certainly not spectacular in any way) military arm, it makes for one of the best sporting arms ever designed. There are few cartridges you can't chamber it for, few parts/accessories that can't be found for it, and no question as to whether it will work when you need it. I wouldn't consider using any design not derived (and not far departed) from the Mauser 98 action for hunting large dangerous game.

It's definately the most most solid feeling design I've ever come into contact with. Very robust.

I don't know...I sure have my eye on them. I actually think the 17 Hornet by Hornady could really fill a niche between your 17 HMR and ???? I have a 17 HMR, as well as a few other sub-calibers on the CZ 527 platform including 17 Rem, 19 Badger, .221 FB, 22 Hornet, .222, 223 & .204R but I am so STOKED about a factory ammo offering in the 17 HH!

.204

 

[TOU]

The .223Rem. would be my next step up, though I don't really have a great need to fill the gap, so the .223Rem. is still on the table.

Fair enough, we each have our own directions of interest, thats all. Its funny, my interest these days seem to be going the opposite direction...I.E. .223Rem is starting to be a BIG caliber for me. LOL

Besides, as much as I like my .17HMR (and liked the .17HM2 before selling it), I hate cleaning it...and that is one more caliber to stock bullets for.

I hear you, and you make good points. Interestingly, my 17 HM2's are nearly become my favorites of all time.

To be perfectly honest I would rather see it in something larger (caliber wise) rather than smaller...something like the 6x45mm (AKA: 6mm-.223) or 6.5Grendel, as crazy as that may sound.

Nah...not crazy at all, just different. Like I said, I seem to be going the opposite direction in my interest; I have only a few larger caliber's anymore. I sold my .458 Win Mag...and bought more small calibers.