The AK & the AR. Which to pick?
- Thread starter V4Vendetta
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I believe they are very different rifles for kind of the same purposes, high volume fire, large magazine capacity with different accuracy requirements. I consider my AK (SLR-95) my medium range carbine. I can consistently hit a 3X4 size gong at 300 yards with mine, no problem, I'm fine with that. Yeah, the AR's are more accurate and that's fine too, but if I want that accuracy at range, I also want the energy at those ranges too.
I personally do not have a use for the abilities (or non-abilities) of that cartridge at extended ranges. So for me a more useful cartridge would be of a .30 caliber, .30-06 or .308, I have the accuracy and the energy at range for a wide variety of targets and don't feel limited. There are a few mainstream rifles that are in the larger calibers which also have high-magazine capacity and are accurate, M1A, FAL, HK91 are some that come to mind. I'm not bashing the .223, for me it has limited applications for my uses and since I'm spending the money, I figure get a rifle that can do "more".
I personally do not have a use for the abilities (or non-abilities) of that cartridge at extended ranges. So for me a more useful cartridge would be of a .30 caliber, .30-06 or .308, I have the accuracy and the energy at range for a wide variety of targets and don't feel limited. There are a few mainstream rifles that are in the larger calibers which also have high-magazine capacity and are accurate, M1A, FAL, HK91 are some that come to mind. I'm not bashing the .223, for me it has limited applications for my uses and since I'm spending the money, I figure get a rifle that can do "more".
stratus
Member
Yeah... it's a .308 with a 16" barrel. While it is definitely a nifty little rifle, the combination of that particular caliber with that particular barrel length is not immediately the best idea in the world.blackrazor said:If one of those really is a group from the M1A SOCOM, then I'm glad I never bought that POS.It shoots as bad as an AK!
Anyway, to answer the original poster's question, I love my Bushmaster M4 type. Relatively new but no problems thus far.
AK103K
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They both do a little better precision wise, when you have a fixed aiming point off a bench or prone. Those groups reflect a COM or neck hold using an Aimpoint (on both rifles) from a cross legged sitting position.(the SOCOM's target is the upper left, the rest are the AK) Truthfully, I like the AK better. Its lighter and a lot easier to shoot well, especially with snap shots on multiple targets.If one of those really is a group from the M1A SOCOM, then I'm glad I never bought that POS.
Just to keep things straight, I do similar with my AR's at that distance using the same type targets, hold, and position. They too do better from a bench or slung in prone, but then again, thats "target" shooting, and really doesnt mean a whole lot, at least to me. It just shows you can be consistent and doesnt do much for more real world shooting.
If you think your a good shot with anything, try 2 second standing snap shots from a low ready. Thats 2 seconds or less from "go" to "shot". Think its easy? Give it a try, especially at 100 yards. I dont think your "target" lessons will be much help here.
And the lowly AK does pretty well here too, 100(L) 50(R). Not to bad for "... shoots as bad as an AK!", eh?
Kaylee
Member
V4.. this is very, very good advice. It would be wise to follow Mr. Vanitas' example.
V4Vendetta
member
"AK = more idiot proof."
That sounds right for me.
"Let's not turn this into a political discussion, we're here because the guy wants information regarding two very capable guns. Let's give it to him without the drama, ok?"
That's a good rule for posting on a forum. Thank you.
"Why do you hate the M16? Have you ever been issued an M16? I make a concerted effort not to hate any gun that I've never fired, or handled."
"V4.. this is very, very good advice. It would be wise to follow Mr. Vanitas' example."
I've never been issued anything. I mean if I was unarmed in a firefight & there were M16's laying on the ground, I'd pick up one fast. I suppose saying I "hated" the M16 was a bit harsh.
I'll probably get a AK first. Then I might get a AR in a few years. Thank you all for the info.
That sounds right for me.
"Let's not turn this into a political discussion, we're here because the guy wants information regarding two very capable guns. Let's give it to him without the drama, ok?"
That's a good rule for posting on a forum. Thank you.
"Why do you hate the M16? Have you ever been issued an M16? I make a concerted effort not to hate any gun that I've never fired, or handled."
"V4.. this is very, very good advice. It would be wise to follow Mr. Vanitas' example."
I've never been issued anything. I mean if I was unarmed in a firefight & there were M16's laying on the ground, I'd pick up one fast. I suppose saying I "hated" the M16 was a bit harsh.
I'll probably get a AK first. Then I might get a AR in a few years. Thank you all for the info.
klover
Member
Verp AK for MY reasons:
1)no time to modify any toys.
2)shooting from moving platform.
3)don't like crude looking any toy.
4)intended targets likely behind cover.
5)will probably be out gunned (need to get a 75 drum).
6)as mentioned, I have other toys for filling other niches, ie long
range, close quarters, wilderness/survival, ccw, etc.
7)commie cool factor
8)weight not an issue
9)short medium range intended
10)easy storage
11)idiot proof (I rest my case)
Your intended uses/niches will vary. Your values will vary. I don't even know why I reply to a Chevy/Ford debate (see 11 above)
1)no time to modify any toys.
2)shooting from moving platform.
3)don't like crude looking any toy.
4)intended targets likely behind cover.
5)will probably be out gunned (need to get a 75 drum).
6)as mentioned, I have other toys for filling other niches, ie long
range, close quarters, wilderness/survival, ccw, etc.
7)commie cool factor
8)weight not an issue
9)short medium range intended
10)easy storage
11)idiot proof (I rest my case)
Your intended uses/niches will vary. Your values will vary. I don't even know why I reply to a Chevy/Ford debate (see 11 above)
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Well....the best answer is this.
Shoot both. See which one you like best. Best is whatever criteria you find most important. Accuracy might be one, ergonomics might be another, recoil...etc.
Things I like about AR:
Lightweight (if you get a real one with a normal profile barrel)
Better ergonomics
better sighting options, optics
lower recoil
faster to reload
bolt hold open (catch)
better handguards
Things I like about AK:
More robust across the board.
Strong magazines with thick steel feedlips
Side charging handle
Excellent feeding due to tapered cartridge, long carrier stroke, heavy carrier and sloppy tolerances/ fewer parts.
.30 cal penetration power
Note how accuracy isn't on that list. Each can hit a man sized target @ 200 yards withe ease. Don't look at these garbage Romanian AK's...they have totally rounded and oval crowns. Look at a Vepr or an Arsenal...that is what the design was meant to be like. Each rifle has enough accuracy to do the job...the AR has more for longer range, but guess what, the cartridge doesn't get the job done out that far..so it's moot. They were both invented for 200 yard work ideally.
Shoot both. See which one you like best. Best is whatever criteria you find most important. Accuracy might be one, ergonomics might be another, recoil...etc.
Things I like about AR:
Lightweight (if you get a real one with a normal profile barrel)
Better ergonomics
better sighting options, optics
lower recoil
faster to reload
bolt hold open (catch)
better handguards
Things I like about AK:
More robust across the board.
Strong magazines with thick steel feedlips
Side charging handle
Excellent feeding due to tapered cartridge, long carrier stroke, heavy carrier and sloppy tolerances/ fewer parts.
.30 cal penetration power
Note how accuracy isn't on that list. Each can hit a man sized target @ 200 yards withe ease. Don't look at these garbage Romanian AK's...they have totally rounded and oval crowns. Look at a Vepr or an Arsenal...that is what the design was meant to be like. Each rifle has enough accuracy to do the job...the AR has more for longer range, but guess what, the cartridge doesn't get the job done out that far..so it's moot. They were both invented for 200 yard work ideally.
glockenstein
Member
Klover beat me too it. I have a VEPR AK and it is my new favorite rifle as well as my choice for a "Go-to" rifle in a survival situation. I put an Ultimak mount and an Aimpoint on it to alleviate the only thing I don't like about AK's.- the sights. It is so accurate even the serious long-range Highpower rifle guy that hangs out at my range was impressed. I got it through the FBMG group buy here awhile back so thanks to those guys again btw. I have owned 2 different Bushmaster AR's and they were fine but they just didn't do it for me. I like the simplicity of the AK design and reliability too. If you are thinking about an AK give the VEPR a look- they are more $ but worth every penny. They are a little heavy but built like a tank.
I also love my M1A's and my M1 Garand but thats a different topic! lol
If you want an AR then give Bushmaster a look.
I also love my M1A's and my M1 Garand but thats a different topic! lol
If you want an AR then give Bushmaster a look.
Call me a Vepr fan also. If you are going with an AK, please make sure you get one that has descent quality. Mine is plenty accurate for me and they are tough. I was impressed with the how tough the mags are compared to my AR.
One advantage for the AR that was not menitoned above: The extra ammo and mags are much lighter than for an AK or other rifles. You can carry 200 rounds in extra mags with very little weight. I put 10 20-round mags for my M1A in a shoulder bag and that sucker is heavy. That was the main point my Dad made about getting the M16 after getting to Vietnam. When on a partrol, you can carry a whole lot more ammo.
In a SHTF scenario, I would have a hard choice between my Vepr K and my Armalite M15A4.
One advantage for the AR that was not menitoned above: The extra ammo and mags are much lighter than for an AK or other rifles. You can carry 200 rounds in extra mags with very little weight. I put 10 20-round mags for my M1A in a shoulder bag and that sucker is heavy. That was the main point my Dad made about getting the M16 after getting to Vietnam. When on a partrol, you can carry a whole lot more ammo.
In a SHTF scenario, I would have a hard choice between my Vepr K and my Armalite M15A4.
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