The battle of three affordable 9mms

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Hooptie

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Okay, here are the players:

Kel Tec P11
Eaa M88 9mm
Star BM 9mm

The goal? The best fun shooter/ccw/"in the truck" gun

I know the Kel Tec is the likely winner here, but I'm an "open options" kinda guy. I've read about every thread on the Zastavas on here, and come away with the same 50/50 feeling I go in with. I LOVE the concept of the Star, small, affordable 9mm 1911 copy. But, I know that parts availability is a concern. I also know that the Star and the Zastava are going to feel good in my hands as someone who has shot plenty of real 1911s. I can also add that I am not a fan of the feel of glocks, I'm not sure that the P11 is close to them as far as ergonomics, but its a consideration.

So I ask the UNBIASED educated opinions of THR, a place that I consult for many things gun related, but very rarely post, in hopes that a winner can be chosen.


And I can buy what should be the best gun.
 
I primarily shoot Glocks. The Kel-Tec didn't feel anything like a Glock in my hand, the ergo and grip angle were all wrong. I went with Kahr primarily because it felt more familiar (Glock-like).

I really don't know anything at all about the other two.

R
 
I have 4, star 9mm and think they are great. I broke the firing pin in my BKS awhile back, spent an hour on the net and found a replacement. Sent $11, three days later had my firing pin. Parts can be found! for the price these guns can't be beat.
I'd have to recommend the Star.
 
I wouldn't have any of the 3. I'm sorry about that but I dcn't like any of the 3.
IMO the Star is the better of the 3.
 
I have found a few of the Stars on GB for ~$280, I recall them going for much less than that.

ColeK, Do you have any hands on with any of these guns? I know plenty of people who flat out won't own a Kel Tec because, admittedly, they are budget guns. But they also tend to go boom with each trigger stroke, are affordable, reasonably accurate and a good CCW weapon.

The Stars are rock reliable from what I hear/read, and once again seem to be reasonably accurate.

And then theres the M88, everyone says they go boom when you want them to, but where the bullet goes is anyone guess. Plus it seems production machining is lacking.
 
Hooptie, not to complicate things for you, but have you considered police trade-ins that can be had for not much more than the Stars you're finding on Gunbroker?

For example, a stainless S&W 5906 can be had reasonably, though probably isn't going to conceal as well as a P11 (but might prove a "better" shooter):

A current auction for a 5906 at GunBroker

The same model at SOG with night sights (and pricier)

Here's a P6/225 for the same price

Arcus 9mms

However, if it's a toss-up between the three you've listed, I'd probably opt for the Star BM.
 
I'm going to keep an eye on the 5906, but sadly, the other two are out of my price range. In trying to make my gun money go as far as possible, I've already got a few other toys, plus a wife who doesn't understand guns, so theres a budget cap much to my dismay.

I know most people turn their noses up at Kel Tecs due to them being, we'll say brutish in recoil, but thats not really an issue to me. I've read that its easy to make them much more comfortable in your hand with some 1000 grit and testing to remove casting burs and edges. Again, thats not an issue.

The upsides to them is that people tend to agree that they're reliable, pretty accurate (though no match weapon), and easy to maintain. Plus they accept larger S&W mags and grip extensions.
 
Arcus guns work, but the finish is atrocious. My 94 is a loaner/extreme don't care gun ; the finish was toast on the first hour, scratches in the fake park were deep and instant just from regular handling.

For a budget gun, it'd run.

Out of the three listed, I personally couldn't use any of them - I have zero trust in any of the junk EAA hawks having dealt with their 'service', the Star BM was only marginally worth it when they had them for $119 for ages earlier in the decade, and even then it wasn't a great deal as condition and functionality was a crapshoot. Even of the ones that worked 100%, it was a FMJ only gun. Since you've listed it as a carry gun, and given the age/god knows what history of them all plus ammo finickiness, it's off the list. It's important to note that the Star isn't a 9mm 1911 either, it just has some cosmetic similarities to fool the unwary.

Kel-tec doesn't apply to me not because of the cheapness factor but rather that their guns are simply too small for me to use under any stress - I wanted a P32 back in the day until I shot one, I actually have to work at getting my finger in the triggerguard and positioning the grip on the P11 or any of the compacts. It's been true of enough of a minority of shooters I know that I'd recommend shooting/handling one before purchase. Even for the guys I know who own the Keltecs don't use them as 'fun range guns.' They're simply too little gun for range accuracy or control for most shooters.

If you don't like the ergonomics of a Glock you probably won't like a P11 either - the brick factor is definitely there.

That said, the problem here is you're looking for a do-everything gun on a miniscule budget. It's not going to happen - you need to figure out what it is you *need*, then what you want. At your approximate budget range, you're going to have to start with need and sacrifice basically everything else to be brutally honest.
 
The more I read, the more I lean towards just the P11. Grip shape is something that can be delt with, Houge has seen to that for the most part. I may go to a few local shoot'em'up shops and see if they've got one for me to put in my hands. You hit the nail on the head with the Stars, at least from the "what worries me" standpoint. They're old, they're likely finicky at this point. Something I don't want.

I guess I shouldn't talk to bad about holding the glock, its been ages since I shot one.

Of the three, its really the Kel Tec that fits the bill. They're new, have a lifetime warrenty, are easy to conceal, seem to digest anything but +p ammo happily, are well inside my range and meet about all the criteria. It seems that the fun to shoot aspect may be off kilter, but that may be more me getting used to it.

If I end up with one, you can bet my narrow Kansas butt that it'll get grip extensions put on it. I've also considered the PF9, but the P11 has the larger cap. mag plus you can stick the 15 round S&W mags in them too. For CC/truck gun, thats a big bonus to me.
 
saw a star for 250 the other day, but my vote would be for the kel tec but you really couldn't go wrong with any of them
 
Hooptie, does it really need to be a 9mm? You know, 7.62x25 ammunition is some of the most dirt-cheap ammunition available and various TT-33s (including the excellent Yugo M57, my favorite) sell for some $190 or less if you shop around.

Not much for carry unless you're ok packing something that size, but they're going to be hard to beat for you budget for fun and would be excellent for something you leave in the car (that it could probably shoot through, being a zippy round).
Heck, I'm thinking of buying a 3rd M57 just to tuck away and I used to have a rule against owning two of the same. I think they're that good for the money.
 
lots of good talk about those hi power clones and don't be afraid about buying older guns, remember they use to make things better than they do now.
 
Oh, old doesn't scare me. I have an M1 carbine and a 1931 build 91/30 Nagant that makes me laugh like a 2nd grader every time I shoot it.

Its really down to the PF9 and P11 at this point.

Looking at those old TTs was what led me to the shorter barrel Zastavas, its just too bad that they're apparently built with rocks and stones.
 
One I hadn't thought of earlier given your constraints might be one of the S&W Sigmas. It's not a compact gun. It's a virtual Glock clone with a different trigger and a standard non-Luger grip angle.

Yea, I know people give them a bad rap. When I was in the business, we sold a *lot* of them. They're ugly, the trigger is on par with a Kel-tec, and occasionally one has problems - but you have S&W's generally excellent service to fall back on, and in the $299 or under range, I don't think there's really any competition.
 
I have a friend with one, he actually hates it! Granted he grew up as I did, on 1911s. I have yet to shoot it though. I know they're homely as all get out, but I'll give them a look, thanks!
 
I can only tell you about the KT P11. Dependable, higher standard capacity, double action with hammer block, decent concealability, and an ability to use Mec Gar 17 round S&W 59 Mec Gar mags. It is one of my top picks for a carry weapon.



Hooptie
The battle of three affordable 9mms
Okay, here are the players:
Kel Tec P11
Eaa M88 9mm
Star BM 9mm
The goal? The best fun shooter/ccw/"in the truck" gun
I know the Kel Tec is the likely winner here, but I'm an "open options" kinda guy. I've read about every thread on the Zastavas on here, and come away with the same 50/50 feeling I go in with. I LOVE the concept of the Star, small, affordable 9mm 1911 copy. But, I know that parts availability is a concern. I also know that the Star and the Zastava are going to feel good in my hands as someone who has shot plenty of real 1911s. I can also add that I am not a fan of the feel of glocks, I'm not sure that the P11 is close to them as far as ergonomics, but its a consideration.
So I ask the UNBIASED educated opinions of THR, a place that I consult for many things gun related, but very rarely post, in hopes that a winner can be chosen.
And I can buy what should be the best gun.
Click to expand...
 
don't know anything about those 3, and I can't tell if you're trying to get a small concealable gun or not, but if all you're looking for is cheap and quality, the ruger p guns can be had pretty cheap. also keep an eye on aim surplus and cdnn. you never know what will turn up.
 
I was just going to add the Ruger P-series 9mm are a great value. Additionally, I have no experience myself with the Keltec, but I have heard enough bad things that I'd stay away (yes every company makes lemons, but it seems like I hear about more coming from Keltec than other manufacturers).
 
uh, I am definitely biased, but I say star BM. I CC it for a while and it was nice and comfortable. The p11 just feels like a cheap Chinese squirt gun.
 
For something inexpensive you will have a hard time doing much better than than a CZ-82.



J&G has them for $210

IIRC CDNN had them for $190 for exc to new condition.
 

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The pistols you are comparing are also very different in wieght. The KT P11 is about half the wieght of the others. I carry a pf-9 and have been very pleased with it for carry. Shoots every thing thats run through it but not a fun gun because of weight. P11 might be a better pistol at the range just because of grip size and extra weight. Still lite
 
Of the three choices, the KelTec has the support of a factory, a warranty, and an established aftermarket for holsters, sights, and other kit. The other two do not.
 
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