What is Kel-Tec's secret?

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When someone says in a post that the PF9 shoots as well as a CM9 or a PM9 i know they are either biased or just haven't shot both brands.

I had two PF9 pistols because KT replaced my original after I returned it due to problems I had with the first one and from personal experience, not hearsay I can attest to the fact that the PF9 though adequate for its purpose does not come even close to the Kahrs.

As for Kahrs having more problems than PF9s, I don't believe that, not for an instant.
 
the kel-tecs have quite a following, and for the kitchen table gunsmith they are a hoot to tinker with to get them to run right.

some get one that is right, right out of the box, some need the infamous fluff and buff, and some nedd a little more than that.......but theyve started a storm in the world of mini autos.
 
I bought a P3AT for my wife 7 years ago. She saw and handled it at the gun show and just HAD to have it. So, I bought it. Once we got it home she decided she didn't like it as much as a tip up barrel Beretta. She handed it to me and said, "It's yours".
I wasn't looking for a compact .380. Didn't see a need for one, as I was carrying a Taurus PT111 Millennium at the time.
Then, I picked up a pocket clip at a LGS and started carrying it as a backup piece.
So far, it's been 100% reliable and has a good trigger. It shoots as accurately as I could ask it to, given the size, weight, and sights.
I have no complaints. I'd love to have the P11 and PF9, as well as their .308 rifle and 12 gauge pump.
My buddy had a PLR16 that he loved until his psycho wife stole it with the intention of murdering him with it. She stole it and his CZ52 while torching his house.
Sure am glad my wife isn't a psycho.
Anyhoo, I don't see where they're any uglier than a Glock. And 100% reliability is good enough for me.

A smaller company can roll with the punches in regards to running design changes and customer demands more easily than a huge corporation.
 
I carry a P3AT in hard chrome.

That said:

I had a Kahr PM40 and a kel tec PF-9. I kid you not! the PM40 had less recoil than the PF-9. Totally different guns (one super light) but to say the Kel Tec PF-9 is better in trigger or recoil compared to a Kahr is a lie.

I sold both. Both broke. Didn't try to fix the PF-9 and the Kahr PM40 broke again straight back from Kahr fixing it (on my dollar to return it to them). Sportsmans Warehouse let me return it.
 
Bought my P11 in 1996 when I got my CHL. It's got over 11K rounds through it and still puts 'em into 3.5" at 25 yards from the bench to POA with my carry load. I love the thing for pocket carry, proper DA trigger and hammer fired, very accurate weapon and very reliable.

I also have one of Kelgren's earlier attempts, a Grendel P12. While it's reliable with most ammo, it's not really very accurate and if you don't like the P11's trigger, the P12's is about 100 percent worse. But, I still have that gun, not much of a round count, but it's 12 ounces unloaded, identical to a Ruger LCP in length and height, just wider because it carries an 11 round double stack magazine. The P12 is a .380, a blow back gun. For a very miniscule more weight and size, the P11 is a LOT more defensive weapon IMHO.
 
Holy cow! My poor little thread got sidetracked for sure! So it looks like the answer to the original question is;

1. Kel-Tecs are simply not intended to be fired excessively.

2. Yes, Kel-Tec is taking a gamble that other manufacturers aren't willing to take by rolling out thinner dimensions.

Thank you to those commenting on the actual question. You have satisfied my curiousity.
 
Holy cow! My poor little thread got sidetracked for sure! So it looks like the answer to the original question is;

1. Kel-Tecs are simply not intended to be fired excessively.

2. Yes, Kel-Tec is taking a gamble that other manufacturers aren't willing to take by rolling out thinner dimensions.

Thank you to those commenting on the actual question. You have satisfied my curiousity.
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My Kel-Tec has been shot extensively and works great...in fact all of Kel-Tec were all shot extensively without issue.

I don't think they are taking any sort of gamble making their guns the dimensions they are or there would be reports of them going kaboom.

When someone says in a post that the PF9 shoots as well as a CM9 or a PM9 i know they are either biased or just haven't shot both brands.
Click to expand...

Define "shoots as well"...I have owned and shot both. My PF-9 has a better trigger, is more accurate and has had zero malfunctions versus an average of 1 failure to function per 50 rounds in the Kahr...I would happily put money on a combat match with me shooting the PF-9.
 
Some folks are happy to reinvent the same darn wheel over and over. KT seems to want to improve, and now some folks are actually reinventing KT wheels.

I like my PF9, and compared it side by side to the LC9. The Ruger was prettier, but the KT was smaller in every dimension, and lighter. I also felt the KT felt better in my hand, and had a better trigger.

I feel like they are just not a company that is willing to reinvent someone else's wheels...
 
1. Kel-Tecs are simply not intended to be fired excessively.

2. Yes, Kel-Tec is taking a gamble that other manufacturers aren't willing to take by rolling out thinner dimensions.
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What is there about 11K rounds you don't find "extensive"? I shot this thing a LOT over 10 years of my ownership, have slacked a lot and can't estimate recent round count, so I quit trying. But, it has been a regular carry for 15 years and continues to serve me well and when it finally DOES wear out, KT will fix OR replace it because it has a lifetime repair warranty backed by one of the best CS departments extant. I kinda wish it WOULD show some signs of wearing out cause it's got a LOT of holster wear and it'd kinda be fun to play with a new gun. :D

As for how the gun shoots, if you have a Kahr that can best 100 percent reliability and shoot into 3.5" at 25 yards off the bench as my KT does, well, you got a winner for at least half again the money. If that's worth it to you, hell, that's why there are higher priced guns. Perhaps you prefer the trigger or the grip angle or some other excuse for paying more, but I do just fine with my old P11, thanks. The P11 was the first of its kind and still one of the best. The PF9 is a less than a quarter inch thinner and 2 ounces lighter and has a lighter/shorter trigger, but no second strike capability. I like the PF9, though, as it IS thinner.
 
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When someone says in a post that the PF9 shoots as well as a CM9 or a PM9 i know they are either biased or just haven't shot both brands
Click to expand...
.

Define "shoots as well"...I have owned and shot both. My PF-9 has a better trigger, is more accurate and has had zero malfunctions versus an average of 1 failure to function per 50 rounds in the Kahr...I would happily put money on a combat match with me shooting the PF-9.
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I'll second that.

Have a PF9 and a K9. The K is certainly more pleasant in the recoil department, and definitely prettier. But guess which one I actually carry?

The KT's trigger is more manageable, and the gun is more accurate.
 
I've only got one KT, a P3AT, and I love it. Harsh as hell to shoot but VERY DEPENDABLE. I carry it every day and have no fear it will let me down when the chips are down!

Yeah, it's showing it's external wear already but it has character, and I like that. . .
 
Kel-Tec's machinery is lubricated with tears of a virgin before they start production.
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That's not at all true. The cooling fluid they use is Titusville, FL tapwater. If you've had it, you'll know what I'm talking about...

That being said, they use extremely innovative and aggressive designs that work. It's fantastic to see the market support innovation like that.
 
I have 5 kelTecs all work fine The PF-9 has become one of my main carry pistols As for Kahr Well my PF-9 KelTec. hasn't lost front sight like my Kahr CW-9 .

But the PF-9 a few less rounds than the P-11 but better trigger
 
Wait, now 2 people have said the trigger on KT's are better than Kahr's?

Get your boots on, the crap is getting thick in here.

(once again, PM40 has less recoil than PF-9. All Kahrs are smooth and NOT heavy and NOT long). Now if you say the KT carries easier because of the weight and lack of huge slide release--you are on to something. But don't fib.
 
wild cat mccane said:
Wait, now 2 people have said the trigger on KT's are better than Kahr's?

Get your boots on, the crap is getting thick in here.

(once again, PM40 has less recoil than PF-9. All Kahrs are smooth and NOT heavy and NOT long). Now if you say the KT carries easier because of the weight and lack of huge slide release--you are on to something. But don't fib.
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Yeah I thought all the delusional people were on leftist boards. Lol
 
Considering the prices, I wouldn't expect the Kel-Tec to be on the same level with the Kahr, but I've owned both and prefer the Kel-Tecs for most of my needs. I just prefer hammer guns to sticker fired.
 
diyj98 said:
Considering the prices, I wouldn't expect the Kel-Tec to be on the same level with the Kahr, but I've owned both and prefer the Kel-Tecs for most of my needs. I just prefer hammer guns to sticker fired.
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Not being argumentative, just wonder why?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyj98 View Post
Considering the prices, I wouldn't expect the Kel-Tec to be on the same level with the Kahr, but I've owned both and prefer the Kel-Tecs for most of my needs. I just prefer hammer guns to sticker fired.
Not being argumentative, just wonder why?
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Perhaps old fashioned. I just feel more comfortable shoving a hammer fired gun in my pocket than a striker fired model. A lot of it probably comes from association with the cheap striker fired Ravens, Jennings, etc. I still own a Kahr, but the trigger pull is a bit too light and short for my personal comfort. I own eight Glocks as well, but they just aren't my favorite :)
 
MCGunner writes:
I also have one of Kelgren's earlier attempts, a Grendel P12. While it's reliable with most ammo, it's not really very accurate and if you don't like the P11's trigger, the P12's is about 100 percent worse. But, I still have that gun, not much of a round count, but it's 12 ounces unloaded, identical to a Ruger LCP in length and height, just wider because it carries an 11 round double stack magazine.
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I have the P-10, the one with the non-removable internal magazine. This was definitely a unique piece when it came out. Several other cops and I got them on a department PO when Grendel marketed it as a potential LE BU/OD gun. This was back in 1989, I think. I still have it, and it's in the "hot safe" (the one that holds loaded guns.) It took some work to get it to work with the ammunition of that era; there were not as many choices in "performance" ammo back then. Even now, it's loaded with a semi-jacket FN round. I never really carried it with any regularity; just dropped it in a pocket once in a great while, and haven't even done that in years.
 
kokapelli
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyj98
Considering the prices, I wouldn't expect the Kel-Tec to be on the same level with the Kahr, but I've owned both and prefer the Kel-Tecs for most of my needs. I just prefer hammer guns to sticker fired.
Click to expand...
Not being argumentative, just wonder why?
Click to expand...

'cause the Kahrs are prettier, more steel, and have hot models in their ads. :D
 
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