The Court of Public Opinion

[conw]

The so-called court of public opinion is real. Here's a case illustrating that. It's not something you can always anticipate, but it can certainly bite you in the rear when you least need it to. I doubt this warden can really get a fair trial in this county, should this go to court...

Facts: a game warden, yesterday (the 11th), on the opening of turkey season, shot and killed a man - a senior citizen - named Clyde Coffey. Clearly the warden is going to claim self-defense; other facts are not known. Hear-say has it that the man was hard of hearing, that they miscommunicated, that Coffey didn't have a gun out, blah blah blah...

I say wait until the facts are heard in court before we convict anyone of anything, but the community has already made up their mind - practically as soon as there was any news - that the Warden is guilty of "murdering Coffey over a turkey," that "a game warden shot a hunter in the back for scattering corn," and more.


"Dispatcher: Hunter Shot, Killed by Game Warden in Wilkes County"
http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-hunter-killed-wilkes-county-090411,0,6453795.story

Slain Hunter was a 'Teddy Bear of a Man'
http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-hunter-killed-090412,0,4986126.story

This thread has over 800 replies and was started yesterday, shortly after the news broke that the warden shot Coffey.
http://www.gowilkes.com/voice/view/?e=&start=0&msg=47858&h=230513

Gotta especially love the second link there. First-class journalism...

[mods, move this if you want; I thought S&T might be good but it really is more legal as the court of public opinion will fry you post-incident]

 

[jbkebert]

I am sorry to hear about this. I am sorry for your loss is you knew this person. I don't know any of the details So I don't know what really happened. I can tell you that game wardens have probably one of the most stressful jobs in law enforcement. I police officer is alway warry of someone with a weapon. A game warden everyone they talk to has a weapon. It could be a hunting rifle, shotgun, knife. Just about everyone walking in the woods even to go on a hike is armed in some way. I am sure that it makes one very nervous. Like I said i don't know what really happend I don't want to blame the fellow that was killed but I am not so quick to blame a warden with 25 years on the job either.

 

[conw]

I had heard it was 12 years on the job, but at any rate I didn't know either of them. (It did happen on my road though)

The point really was that this could happen to you in any justified shooting. Anyone carrying a gun for personal protection should take note that hundreds, or thousands, of people could decide you are guilty hours after you defend yourself. How would you like to hear on the news during preliminary meetings with your defense lawyer that the man you "slew" was a "teddy bear of a man?"

As for the case itself I, too, have no idea and don't pretend to. I would suspect the warden did feel justified in shooting the man but that's really beside the point.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Hmmm, game warden on the victims POSTED private property, and fatally shoots the property owner.

Methinks this is not going to go well.

 

[conw]

I dunno what the actual laws are regarding enforcing hunting regs on private, or non-private land. I have been by the area in question many times and I believe the area the shooting occurred is visible from public land (a road). Clearly there are situations where the warden would have been justified in shooting, and there is a lot of gray as well where he may have jumped the gun so to speak.

I suppose I'll post updates as they come in, if anyone's interested in this as an illustration.

 

[conw]

Official statement in writing today claims it was self-defense but the investigation continues.

http://12403wc.blogspot.com

 

[conw]

victims

I just noticed this. I don't know why everyone, even people on this site, are rushing to conclusions. That was the whole point of this thread! That a trial exists for a reason, and that we - as people bearing arms - must not rush to judgment if we don't want others to do the same if we must defend ourselves.

 

[lesterg3]

Sounds real fishy to me.

Please keep us posted on new developments.

 

[conw]

Photo:

http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-photo-hunter-clyde-coffey-090413,0,4622036.photo

from 12403wc.blogspot.com:

Monday, April 13, 2009

Update: Name of Man Killed by Wildlife Officer Released
A 12-year veteran wildlife officer was acting in self-defense when he shot and killed a hunter Saturday morning in Wilkes County, according to a statement from the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. In a written statement today, officials said officer Mark Minton was patrolling an area off Cain Creek Road at about 7:30 a.m. when he came into contact with 76-year-old Clyde Coffey. Capt. Rusty Hunter with the North Carolina Wildlife Commission said an armed confrontation between the two prompted Minton to shot Coffey one time, killing him. Coffey's family members said Sunday they doubt Minton's claim that he was provoked. "Who shoots a 76-year-old on his own land?" Coffey's daughter told Channel 12. "There is no evidence to suggest the officer confused the hunter with an animal," Hunter said. "It appears, from all information gathered, the officer was protecting himself. And I don't know any further details than that." The statement today said the investigation had been turned over to the State Bureau of Investigation. Minton is on paid administrative leave pending the results of the investigation.

posted by Newsroom # 3:20 PM

Wildlife Officer Shoots, Kills Hunter Saturday
A hunter was shot and killed in Wilkes county early Saturday morning by a veteran state wildlife officer. It happened near Cain Creek road on private property. Wildlife Officer Mark Minton patrolled the area for the first day of turkey hunting season. Officials say some sort of confrontation occurred with a hunter on that land and the Minton fired shots. The name of the hunter has not been released so far. Capt. Rusty Hunter with the North Carolina Wildlife Commission said the officer acted in self defense. "There is no evidence to suggest the officer confused the hunter with an animal," Hunter said. "It appears, from all information gathered, the officer was protecting himself. And I don't know any further details than that." Mark Minton is a 12-year veteran with the North Carolina Wildlife Commission. Hunter said Minton was patrolling the area checking for bait traps, bag limits and hunting licenses. The matter has been turned over to the SBI, standard practice when a law enforcement officer is involved in a shooting.

posted by Newsroom # 6:01 AM

 

[Jeff White]

I don't know why everyone, even people on this site, are rushing to conclusions. That was the whole point of this thread!

I don't know why you are surprised. You've been here a while. If the questionable shooting had involved a CCW holder instead of a peace officer, there would be a different reaction here.

For the most part people are incapable of looking past their personal biases and opinions and being objective.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Possibly it was Coffey who mistook Minton for game.

Gobble, gobble.

 

[conw]

Jeff, good point. I guess I took for granted the idea that they would reserve judgment, and would be surprised that others had rushed to judgment - surprised enough to consider their own misfortune should they shoot...oh, I don't know, a prominent member of a church in their community. To your credit you are usually the guy saying "wait a sec..." when others are autoblaming the law enforcement officer in question.

DOD, I was hoping you'd chime in here...I guess this is an object lesson in "be careful what you wish for"

 

[Cougfan2]

Possibly it was Coffey who mistook Minton for game.

Gobble, gobble.

Not even remotely funny!

 

[conw]

Lawyers don't get to joke in court...when they get a chance sometimes the sense of humor is a bit rusty.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i don't know either of them and don't have a clue as to mr coffeys mental health but i recently helped a friend remove the guns from his fathers house. his father is 75 and has Alzheimer's. its made him mean and combative.he recently pointed a loaded 12 guage at his own son. i've known his dad for 30 years and woulda bet my life he would never behave that way

 

[conw]

That's much too rational for this discussion, cassandrasdaddy...I mean, how dare you let logic get in the way of emotion?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

mea culpa but it would still be a tragedy for all involved

 

[conw]

Really, the Alzheimer's thing was a very intelligent contribution. It's the kind of thing that family like to ignore...until something like this happens.

 

[Peter Skinner]

Peter Skinner

Hi Jeff,

You did a post about me back in 05. Talk about the court of public opinion I lived it in a most peculiar way and under highly stressful and racially charged circumstances.

Anyway... just wanted to say thank you for that. I read it and some of the replies. If you want to know the rest of that story flip me a lid.

Out

 

[Jeff White]

Hi Peter,
Check your private messages.

Jeff

 

[akodo]

That a trial exists for a reason, and that we - as people bearing arms - must not rush to judgment if we don't want others to do the same if we must defend ourselves.

no it doesn't

A trial has nothing to do with the average person rushing to judgement.

A trial exists to stop the GOVERNMENT from rushing to judgement.

A trail exists to make sure the GOVERNMENT has all it's ducks in a row.

There will be times when a person is found not-guilty at trial, but every reasonable person will know the suspect did it. It is just fine for those reasonable people to act on that knowledge.

(example, if you are an attractive blonde woman, do not date O.J. Simpson)

 

[Dex Sinister]

jbkebert said: A police officer is alway warry of someone with a weapon. A game warden everyone they talk to has a weapon. It could be a hunting rifle, shotgun, knife. Just about everyone walking in the woods even to go on a hike is armed in some way. I am sure that it makes one very nervous.

Funny how civilians aren't supposed to feel that way about law enforcement. I only point that out to point out the double-standard in your reasoning.

Unless you believe that game wardens honestly do not believe that hunters know the difference between hunting animals and killing of a human being, you're merely pandering to many LE's preference that no citizens should ever possess the same amount of power as they do, during any interaction.

If/when you hunt, do you think that every person that you encounter in the woods (all armed, by your definition) intends to do you harm? Are you always wary - just because they have a weapon? No? Then why do you excuse it in people who are supposed to be professionals - and servants of the public?

Dex }:>=-

 

[scythefwd]

cassandrasdaddy,
Your point about Alzheimer's could be pretty accurate. My grandpa had a very bad habit of breaking noses of nurses helping him when he was "sun downing".

 

[woodybrighton]

game warden job title involves telling people who are armed no
not the least stressful of jobs
people don't like being told what to do add guns to a potential confrontations and things can go real bad real fast

 

[conw]

akodo, first off if you think a blonde woman not dating OJ is rushing to judgment I'd say you and I have different definitions. Second, rushing to judgment simply isn't productive and ruins lives, a la Duke Lacrosse/Mike Nifong. I wasn't saying a trial exists to prevent people from rushing to judgment. At any rate, PM me if you want to continue discussion.