Pharmacy Robbery - What would you have done?

[Kleanbore]

Posted by sjohn26: But at 1st sign of ANY weapon (a ball-point pen held in a menacing manner counts) I would drop him/her/it.

Not I.

First, most robbers these days do display a weapon. Second, most robbers do not use the weapon except to intimidate--unless they have to. Third, there is a high likelihood that the robber is not alone, and that one cannot tell who his accomplice is by looking at him--unless something causes him to spring into action.

So, unless there are strong indications that the robber is about to start shooting without provocation, I would choose to not (1) start a gunfight that would likly not have happened but for my intervention; (2) risk being shot by the tail gunner; and/or put innocent persons at risk by shooting in a confined area full of people.

 

[ants]

So a couple of you guys would have pulled out your guns and started shooting.

What if two of you guys were there at the same time (one on each side of the robber) and both of you pulled out your guns and started shooting?

After shooting the robber, and seeing the other guy with the gun, would you commence shooting at each other? Of course you would. You don't know each other. You only see each other as additional armed threats.

 

[heeler]

ants,I know what you are saying but honestly what's the odds of another person being there with a concealed carry?
Being I live in a very large city(Houston Tx.) I checked on www.zipskinny.com and found my zip code to be 10.1 square miles in size with a population of 27,718 people.
Last year there was a total of 50 Concealed licenses issued to my zip code according to the Texas Department of Public Safety.
See what I mean?

 

[Crusader103]

From the video---just be a witness. But at 1st sign of ANY weapon (a ball-point pen held in a menacing manner counts) I would drop him/her/it.

I'm somewhat confused by your response. You said that, based on the video, you would just be a witness. But then you said at the 1st sign of any weapon you would drop him. Based on the video, the robber clearly indicated that he had a weapon. Covered or not, real or not, he is clearly communicating that he has a weapon. That is a sign.

I'm not judging you. Like I said in a previous post, I believe someone would have been justified in shooting. Therefore you could make an argument for doing so that would almost certainly hold up in court.

That does not mean I would recommend shooting based on the video, though all prerequisites for doing so appear to exist.

 

[Kliegl]

I disagree with Ants. Both of us would have shot him, then stopped.

However, I would have done nothing, unless he tried to rob ME. Then, I would have reacted in appropriate self defense measures.

 

[M-Cameron]

wait...

....so did that guy really just rob a CVS....with a towel?

 

[sjohn26]

Visible weapon displayed in a menacing manner...............indicating/under a shirt/talked about is not menacing.

Hand on it pointing at someone is!

 

[beatcop]

If someone wanted to engage, they wouldn't have much of a legal bill. The "guy" (?) is holding a form threat, with the appearance of a firearm and pointing it at the clerk. Gun will fire even when covered...good to go.

It played out well enough, too many folks shopping to start a battle....

...and of course the guy is plum nuts. pink is not his color

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I would probably only shoot if he had a gun in hand and was waving it all over the place and in the clerks face, and only if his gun was pointed in a safe direction.

Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCkiWUsXcUc

 

[sidheshooter]

If someone wanted to engage, they wouldn't have much of a legal bill. The "guy" (?) is holding a form threat, with the appearance of a firearm and pointing it at the clerk. Gun will fire even when covered...good to go.

The post directly above this one mentions "pointed in a safe direction". This is well worth considering: if a BG's gun is pointed at a clerk, you are not "good to go", as quoted, IMHO. If you shoot mr. pink while he's got a gun on the clerk, you've probably just shot the clerk. Moreover, a savvy prosecutor will find an expert witness fluent with the work of roger enoka to testify to that fact. Not good.

When in doubt, sit it out, not shoot it out.

Just one opinion, of course.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Unless you can hit them in the medulla oblongata, and theres a good chance that that the criminal lacks basic gun safety and the finger is on the trigger, he will tense up and squeeze off a round into the clerk.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by sjohn26: Visible weapon displayed in a menacing manner...............indicating/under a shirt/talked about is not menacing.

During a robbery? Do not bet on it

 

[Guillermo]

I do not understand this "ain't my problem" attitude.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

That said...there did not seem to be an immediate threat and their were a LOT of bystanders in the area. Drawing, let alone shooting, would be an unnecessary escalation.

Since their was no weapon seen and perhaps no weapon present, the proper thing would be to let the pathetic transvestite robber leave. Obviously following would be appropriate. If an opportunity presented itself away from bystanders, by all means, engage. If not, report.

 

[sidheshooter]

Obviously following would be appropriate. If an opportunity presented itself away from bystanders, by all means, engage...

How is that supposed to go? Is this a suggestion to engage in a gunfight after the fact, or am I misreading the above?

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Meh. CVS is insured. All the thief did was steal from the insurance company.
I'm robbed every year of my income in the form of taxes that pay for police officers. I'll let them handle it. I'm not gonna gun a guy down for stealing Federal Reserve Notes from someone who is insured for their loss.
I feel for the clerk, but that's part of the gig. The thief seemed calm enough and wasn't jumping around like he had a meth issue. Didn't seem to be a lot of danger.

 

[skoro]

Getting involved in 3rd party situations is almost never wise. Unless you're certain of who is who and what is what, just be a good witness. CVS's bottom line isn't vital to you and they certainly won't thank you for sticking your neck out.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I do not understand this "ain't my problem" attitude.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

This is so true! In the old west, he would have been gunned down by a dozen people for pulling such a stunt. If people were more 'community' oriented they would stand up for eachother, and as a mob beat this guy down. We've gotten used to not risking our own safety, the police will handle it. When I was a teen, my friend and I beat up a guy for beating his woman. If someone would have come upon the scene, we would look like the BGs. (This was a moot issue, she screamed, "DONT HURT HIM! I LOVE HIM! Even though he was beating her face into the parking lot with a closed fist. Thats when I quit looking out for people I dont personally know.)

The problem is, a legal issue. You could end up in jail for standing up for a strangers' safety. If you were to fire, and someone were to be unjustly injured (or killed) YOU could be just as responsible as the BG. In this country the BG might even sue you.

+1 to not knowing if there is a SLEEPER BG waiting for a hero to show himself.

 

[Mike1234567]

This is so true! In the old west, he would have been gunned down by a dozen people for pulling such a stunt. If people were more 'community' oriented they would stand up for eachother, and as a mob beat this guy down. We've gotten used to not risking our own safety, the police will handle it. When I was a teen, my friend and I beat up a guy for beating his woman. If someone would have come upon the scene, we would look like the BGs. (This was a moot issue, she screamed, "DONT HURT HIM! I LOVE HIM! Even though he was beating her face into the parking lot with a closed fist. Thats when I quit looking out for people I dont personally know.)

The problem is, a legal issue. You could end up in jail for standing up for a strangers' safety. If you were to fire, and someone were to be unjustly injured (or killed) YOU could be just as responsible as the BG. In this country the BG might even sue you.

+1 to not knowing if there is a SLEEPER BG waiting for a hero to show himself.

Speaking of "community" and "standing up for one another". I fully agree. And you're right... this ain't the "old west" no more, pard. Few are armed these days so the odds are no longer in our favor during an event like this. In our current unarmed society drawing one's gun to confront this guy would have been VERY irresponsible.

 

[ForumSurfer]

When I was a teen, my friend and I beat up a guy for beating his woman.

Yeah, same here...except I put the guy on the wall and restrained him. I have a scar underneath my hair that reminds me it was silly to get involved. The poor, battered wife blindsided me in the back of the head with a bud light bottle that was laying beside the bowling alley entrance (thank goodness she didn't use hubby's bowling ball bag) because we put hands on her husband.

Things are not always black and white and sometimes a swift, harsh response isn't the best course of action. Sometimes inaction is the wisest and most proactive course of action even if it goes against our feelings that we should "do something."

 

[Kleanbore]

In the old west, he would have been gunned down by a dozen people for pulling such a stunt.

In the fictional "old west" of the screen, perhaps.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

In our current unarmed society drawing one's gun to confront this guy would have been VERY irresponsible.

100% agree. Being a hero risks too much (the safety of others and yourself). Its better to let it go and hope they dont notice you hiding by the pringles. Carrying a gun has mellowed me, I was such a hothead when I was younger. Now, I would realisticly be in the "unless you threaten me or mine" group, even then I would be hesitant to draw a weapon. The pharmacy IS insured, and as long as noone gets hurt, the insurance company is the only victim.

In the fictional "old west" of the screen, perhaps.

Not trying to be confrontational but I know a town where this still might be true. I used to date a girl in a town with a population of 100ish. Everyone knows everyone else. People have 'disappeared' out there. Police response time is nearly an hour. You just pretended like nothing ever happened. You don't know anything. You didn't see anything. You def don't start trouble with the locals.

 

[comet605]

If I was just a customer, nothing. If I was the cashier who is being threatened by a gun, try and distract him then pull and shoot.

 

[Bubba613]

That said...there did not seem to be an immediate threat and their were a LOT of bystanders in the area. Drawing, let alone shooting, would be an unnecessary escalation.

The robber is holding a gun on the cashier. He has obviously threatened him.
At what point, in your mind, would an "immediate threat" occur??

 

[Kleanbore]

We Know How it Ends

With that knowledge, we now know that inaction on the part of the other shoppers was a successful strategy.

No one caused the robber to start firing (though whether he was armed remains unknown).

No one shot an innocent bystander.

No one was shot by an accomplice (and although there is no indications on the video that there was one in the store, that is how robberies are intended to happen--you wont see them unless they act).

Obviously, had anyone attempted to intervene, any or all of those risks may well have materialized.

There are two things that I can see that would have made armed action an appropriate response: (1) the robber ordering people into a back room; or (2) shots fired by the robber.

However, when one considers the odds, taking action because a robber might shoot the clerk, when it is likely that said action would be far more likely to result in bloodshed than inaction, the wisdom of the OP's recommendation ("To be clear, I do not recommend taking any further action than the initial observation and a report to 911. ... I do not believe in a willful escalation of the situation") for anyone other than an off-duty officer should be self evident.

 

[Jonah71]

Fixed the link... CVS Pharmacy Robbery

The robber seemed to be very calm and sedate. For the safety of innocent bystanders it's best to just let the worthless SOB have the cash... as much as that make me want to puke my guts out.

I'd have to agree with you on this.