the fastest handgun in the world ?

[1911Tuner]

me likes

If you'd ever handled one, you wouldn't. Designed and intended to be used with the shoulder stock in 3-round bursts, that thing had the hands-down worst trigger on the planet. It was a long action, straight pull, "DA Only" striker-fired, and while I never measured it...I wouldn't hesitate to bet that it would've hit 20 pounds. Forget quick follow-up shots, and by the time you got through a whole magazine, your hand was so tired you weren't interested in shooting it for a while.

I wish I had the one back that I owned for a short time...for the money that I paid for it...but only because they bring ridiculous prices for some obscure reason.

They were a hoot as a subgun in burst mode...but as a pistol they just blew.

 

[jstein650]

I'd bet a .22 LR in the right rifle would be way up there too. I had a Mossberg, tube fed through the butt that had some sear issue. When it would pop of 2 or 3 rds. in the occasional full auto, you couldn't distinguish the shots. Just sounded louder!

 

[JohnKSa]

still doesn't change the fact that the colt 1911 as tested bu army ordinance had a cycle rate of 600 rpm.

The only possible explanation I can give for that is that's as fast as they were able to get their best guy to pull the trigger. That would fit very well with what's achievable by the top pistol shooters today with a semi-auto pistol.

Clearly there is good documentation that when a 1911 goes full auto, the cyclic rate is somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200rpm, and I provided a link to a full-auto 1911 variant with a cyclic rate of 1,000 rpm so I don't think there's any question about what the mechanism itself is capable of.

It was a long action, straight pull, "DA Only" striker-fired, and while I never measured it...I wouldn't hesitate to bet that it would've hit 20 pounds.

Impressively bad is how I would describe it. Definitely a hindrance to good accuracy when used as a pistol.

 

[Ron James]

If I read two gun correctly, he doesn't want a fully automatic gun, he wants one he can empty, with his finger, really fast. Any modern High cap pistol, That is trigger action on the first shot will fit your needs. I think in this case you should go with a Glock.

 

[dcarch]

Not trying to judge you in any way, but please, please be certain that you are in accordance with your local and regional laws. As other posters have stated, not only could this be used as evidence against you in a court, but it could also reflect very poorly against the greater community of gun owners. The anti-gunners already like to portray us as having a deadly disregard for the law... let's not give them ammo to fuel that argument. With that being said, if what you're planning is within the scope of the law, be sure and have fun! It is indeed a fortunate thing to be able to fire a fully automatic firearm, let alone own one.

 

[two gun charlie]

hi dc , I live in africa , need I say more ?

 

[1911Tuner]

If I read two gun correctly, he doesn't want a fully automatic gun, he wants one he can empty, with his finger, really fast.

Understood. The discussion on full auto cyclic rates offer evidence that they're all faster than anyone can pull the trigger, and that all he has to do is pick the one that HE can shoot the fastest.

 

[two gun charlie]

well don't worry about straying off topic a little it's all just for interest sake anyway , mostly

 

[pockets]

the fastest handgun in the world ?

Russian made TP-82 in its pistol configuration.
It would have been clocked at least 15,000 mph in a Soyuz spacecraft.
(I have not found the USA admitting that they carried handguns aboard US spacecraft.)
.

 

[murf]

johnksa,

thanks for your response on the sources. like two gun charlie says, it's just for interest sake.

from reading about cyclic rate it is obvious, to me, that gun designers can adjust the cyclic rate to whatever they desire (within reason). i don't know how they do it, but the numbers bear this out. whatever the customer wants, i guess

murf

 

[1911Tuner]

gun designers can adjust the cyclic rate to whatever they desire (within reason). i don't know how they do it, but the numbers bear this out

It's pretty much determined by and limited by the mass of the bolt and the return spring. A given bolt mass is accelerated to the rear. Its rate of acceleration is determined by the force that compels it. The bolt is then accelerated forward by the spring. Its rate of acceleration is determined by the spring's strength and rate.

Lowering the bolt's mass will cause it to accelerate more rapidly...but the spring will also decelerate more rapidly...so there's not much of a gain there, if any.

Upping the spring's rate will accelerate the bolt forward faster, but it'll also decelerate it faster...so again, little if any gain.

You can design a gas assist to accelerate the bolt at a faster rate reward...like on the German MG42 light machine gun...but you're also limited by the return spring. You can bump the spring's rate to give the bolt and little more forward speed, but you reach a point of diminishing returns when the spring gets too heavy for the operator to manipulate the bolt.

Cyclic rates in blowback submachineguns are generally set and controlled by the mass of the bolts and the return springs. Up the bolt mass with a given spring, and the gun slows down a bit. Lower the mass, and it speeds up a bit.

Another way is to shorten or lengthen the bolt travel. Longer distance=lower cyclic rate.

Back in the lawless 80s...before legislation banned possession of the bolt...an UZI could be converted to select fire by replacing the legal bolt with an open bolt, and removing a small tack-welded plate that allowed the selector to move to the 3rd position.

The idiots who flirted with a 5-year expense-paid vacation at Club Fed discovered that their new toys provided a furious cyclic rate of some 1250-1300 rpms rather than the 600-650 that they were expecting. The legal UZI semi-auto carbine limited bolt travel with a solid steel block, whereas the subgun didn't. They also discovered that the UZI wasn't designed for cyclic rates that high, and most of'em experienced a lot of malfunctions as a result.

 

[two gun charlie]

Russian made TP-82 in its pistol configuration.
It would have been clocked at least 15,000 mph in a Soyuz spacecraft.
(I have not found the USA admitting that they carried handguns aboard US spacecraft.)
.

what were the russians doing in space with a handgun ? they must have been watching too many alien movies

 

[two gun charlie]

The idiots who flirted with a 5-year expense-paid vacation at Club Fed discovered that their new toys provided a furious cyclic rate of some 1250-1300 rpms rather than the 600-650 that they were expecting.

now that must have been a rush , must have sounded like a those miniguns they mount on the blackhawks I think a saw an uzi in a gunshop a few weeks back maybe I should go pick it up

 

[pockets]

what were the russians doing in space with a handgun ? they must have been watching too many alien movies

Well....Russian ships parachute land in Siberia. They do not come in on a glide path for a nice smooth airbase runway with lots of people around to watch and assist.
So, from 1986 to 2006, their emergency kits contained the TP-82.
These have 2 smooth-bore upper barrels for 12.5x70 (shotgun & flares) and one rifled lower barrel of 5.45x39 (there was also a detachable shoulder stock...which doubled as a machete). Probably was a bottle opener and corkscrew in there somewhere as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

.

 

[tarosean]

Here is a vid of Jerey M playing around with 1911's
Shooting starts around 18:50
http://youtu.be/xgs3nse8rW0

 

[two gun charlie]

Well....Russian ships parachute land in Siberia.
.

seems like the russian space administration really thought the thing through , good thing it wasn't me or those cosmonauts would have been bear food ...sorry comrades I forgot you would be landing in bear country

 

[two gun charlie]

that jerry guy's hands should be registered as lethal weapons ..able to transform any pistol into a weapon of mass destruction instantly

 

[plexreticle]

HK vp70 cyclic rate for 3 round bust is 1800-2200 rpm.

I don't know if this is the fastest but I'm sure it's up there.

 

[JohnKSa]

from reading about cyclic rate it is obvious, to me, that gun designers can adjust the cyclic rate to whatever they desire (within reason).

Well, it's not easy at all to make it faster in a recoil operated system because you will get early opening and cartridge failures if you speed up the cycling velocity by any significant amount. It is possible to slow it down somewhat but even that is limited in a typical semi-auto pistol design because you can't play around much with size or weight.

If you're talking about subguns, fully automatic rifles or crew-served machineguns, then the designer has a lot more leeway to adjust the cyclic rate. In a semi-auto, recoil-operated pistol, there is not much leeway at all in either direction.

 

[KYamateur]

I don't have any scientific data but I own many 9mm and 1911 pistols. I have shot my friends FN 5.7 and that thing seems like it emties a magazine as fast as you can put it in. It may not be faster than the guns I have but it sure feels like it is.

 

[1SOW]

pockets: (I have not found the USA admitting that they carried handguns aboard US spacecraft.)

Incorrect. The moon mission did and I suspect some others. A list of on-board items is available with a search.

I was part of group decision-making effectiveness experiment that had to prioritize each item on the long list unaminously--sort of like a jury. The handgun was a revolver If memory serves.

 

[two gun charlie]

well I guess NASA figured rather be safe than sorry , did they state what kind of ammunition and how much was taken along ?

 

[KYamateur]

Someone mentioned Bump Firing earlier in this post. I do not believe that it is possible to bump fire a 1911 because of the grip safety. I have seen some idiots bump fire glocks off of their belly. I highly caution against ever trying to bump fire a pistol. Your control of the pistol is limited and the muzzle rises. It is a very dangerous procedure and an easy way to shoot yourself in the face.

 

[Drail]

They can all be bump fired if you know how to hold the gun. Trust me. We learned that trick 30 years ago.

 

[1911Tuner]

Your control of the pistol is limited and the muzzle rises. It is a very dangerous procedure and an easy way to shoot yourself in the face.

Nah. In one memorable surprise full-auto event with Ken Rainey's Kimber, I was emptying the magazine firing the gun one-handed. It moved up and to the right at approximately 45 degrees, and there was only about a 3 foot lateral dispersion on the berm from the first shot to the last. No rounds left the 10 foot high berm. With a firm 2-hand hold, I could keep 5 of the 7 rounds on a 12" wide X 16" high steel plate at 10 yards. The gun was just that fast.

After we played with it for a while, we brought it back to the house and fixed it.

Shoot member Ken Rainey a PM for confirmation. I haven't seen him post for a while, but I assume that he's still an active member.

They can all be bump fired if you know how to hold the gun. Trust me. We learned that trick 30 years ago.

Yep, and a 1911 is one of the easiest ones to do it with because of the light single-action trigger.