The Gun Control Debate is over. We won.

[obxned]

Lots of people who formerly thought 'Call 911 and let the police handle it' are now forced to admit that does not work. Some of these folks are even speculating that a licensed person with a concealed weapon might have saved lives.

This is a good sign, but no law has changed or rule been modified to even allow concealed carry on other campuses that are vulnerable to the same horror that occurred at VT.

 

[Titan6]

"All too easy... Perhaps he is not as powerful as the emperor thought?"

Just like the Gov of VA said "now is not the time to address the gun control debate". Sometime later perhaps...

 

[Hockeydude]

I think the most drastic change has been the internet. We've learned how to use it to our advantage, and they have not. Ease of organization in these forums has definitely hurt their morale. It's hard for them to push their agenda about how "everyone supports gun control" after getting thousands of emails and letters.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Never ever ever trust anything those forked tongued liberal devils say--they will do and say anything--talk out of both sides of their arse to enslave you and your children---with them being your master.

Don't believe a thing they say---EVER------did I say EVER???

They are evil personified.

 

[MikeH]

Nobody won. We are all picking up the pieces and trying to move on. The saddest part is that, as a society, we are still as polarized on the gun issue if not moreso.

 

[budney]

A guy can dream, can't he?

I agree with Bubbles, they're just waiting to see what happens in the 08 election.

Just think--maybe Ron Paul will win, and the ban of 1934 will be repealed.

--Len.

 

[eliphalet]

The Gun Control Debate is over. We won.

Things are moving in a positive direction but I wouldn't saw we have won the war. Lets all do what we can to keep guns in a positive light.

What have you done this week int hat direction?

There ya go guys, who have you spoken to about this? have you as a individual done one thing in favor of gun rights? I don't mean here or at the gun shop or to your Buddy's at work that are gun enthusiasts too. Make a call, or a interpersonal chat even if to someone at the supermarket, drift the conservation into this tragic incident, or Tuckers interview, use it to make positive point about gun laws.. From simple things Such as I would say " gosh how many lives do you suppose would have been saved if anyone would have been legally armed there and maybe have had the ability to stop that guy". Or something about that Tucker interview and how foolish and uninformed many gun control advocates really are to arguments and ideas I and blue collar guys like me don't usually come up with. I guess what I am saying is speak with your peers and make a effort at least..If each of us makes one positive statement to a anti, some will listen and learn. Try to get folks to think and not run on emotion.

 

[DawgFvr]

Of course we are all proponents of the 2nd Amendment...however, I thought that applied to Citizens of the United States of America. Why would we have legislation allowing a green-card holders or students on a Student Visa...all foreigners, to legally purchase weapons? Next thing you know, they will be selling weapons to illegal aliens...christ, they already want to give them drivers licenses in Illinois. I say, No Citizen...No weapon. Period. The Bill of Rights is for Americans.

 

[ozwyn]

CWP/CHL is not in all 50 states

class III owners can't buy post 86 designs

Castle doctrine is not in 50 states

executive order bans from the Bush I/Clinton era are still around.

We have made damn good progress, but we have yet to win. Now is the time to move forward and take back ground we lost.

 

[NM234]

I'll say this much, I am a Democrat (I know, I'm probably the only one here ) ; an anti-gun control Democrat, and if I hear them start talking about gun legislation I'll have to vote for someone else. I know that some of the states that they barely lost (New Mexico, Arizona) in the last pres. election was because of their gun control policy. If they would just back off the gun-control they could have the house, senate, and presidency. So if they have any good strategists they will.

 

[msimonds]

at least in Texas I feel as if nothing will ever be negative towards gun owners, unless there are federal laws that may change this

 

[Derek Zeanah]

The Bill of Rights is for Americans.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." Emphasis mine, if course.

God made men. The fact that they made them means they have basic rights (of which self-defense is one, I'd argue). Governments are created to protect those rights.

Show me where that to-the-point document says "as long as they were born here."

 

[rbernie]

The Gun Control Debate is over. We won.

The debate is not over and we have not WON. The debate is as old as mankind itself, and will contine until the last of our species walks. And the battle of perspectives has no winning and losing - only containment.

Accept the swing in momentum, and work to build upon it. But never forget that there are many many people out there would would love to tell you how to live your life down to the last detail - including dictating when and how you can defend your corporeal existance against predation.

 

[DawgFvr]

Never said anything about being "born here". I said citizens of the United States of America. Not illegals...not students form foreign countries on visas...not visitors...etc. The Bill of Rights are for who? Citizens of the United States. No Citizenship...No Firearm. No Citizenship...No Benefits. Period.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." Emphasis mine, if course///?????

We are talking about The Bill of Rights and our Constitution and you are quoting the Declaration of Independence. Hellloooo...wake up Derek Zeanah!

 

[vynx]

It is gettign better though.

I work in Santa Monica California - very liberal USA.

My friends son is a senior in high school and in one of his classes the teacher held a discussion about the Virginia Murders (why doesn't the media call them murders?) and should we have more gun control - being a California teacher he was probably all for it but surprise the students felt the Gov't was taking too many rights away and more gun control was not needed not only that it was a bigger issue that Gov't was taking their rights away!

Wow, there is hope after all the mindless liberal anti-gun message is not being believed! Of course her son is into airsoft, BB guns, knifes and all the traditional "boy" toys.

 

[Shadan7]

NM234 - you're not the only. I've been fighting the good fight with the anti's over at dKos all week. Anyone interested can check out the latest here. And of the 250-some threads (called 'diaries' there) on the subject, the battle between us pro-RKBA progressives and the anti's has been running about half & half, maybe a little better on our side.

No, the Gun Control Debate is *not* over. Not by a long shot. But we're making progress, even in the heart of the Democratic party.

7

 

[davera]

The debate is not over, nor will it ever be. The biggest difference IMO is the use of the internet by gun advocates to organize and get their message out. The internet is only a tool and to be sure, the "other side" is equally adept in its use.

But in the early 90's gun banners had the mass media on their side and we had very little to contest their messaging. Now we do. One thing I noticed on the polls and online commentary was how thoroughly we responded and got our message out in ways that were not possible in the early 90's.

The truly committed on either side will not change their mind. The internet has allowed us to get our message out to more of those on the fence or those who may have formerly only gotten their news from CNN et al

 

[eliphalet]

But we're making progress, even in the heart of the Democratic party.

Hope your right but I fear it is just another political ploy until the next elections.

Never said anything about being "born here". I said citizens of the United States of America. Not illegals...not students form foreign countries on visas...not visitors...etc. The Bill of Rights are for who? Citizens of the United States. No Citizenship...No Firearm. No Citizenship...No Benefits. Period

.

I agree, however I do see room for exceptions with extremely stringent rules. akin to class 3 weapons for citizens in place now, but then and only then should a non citizen have the right to posses firearms.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I don't believe we've won anything although I feel we are somewhat better off than in the recent past- The "war" will never be over-

There will always be those that live in some parallel universe that believes their gun free utopia is attainable- They somehow believe that, irregardless of the miserably failed experiment called prohibition, it is possible to dictate by law, every aspect of human life- And more dangerously, this robotic existence will be according to their particular and peculiar values-

I'm a live and let live kind of person- If it works for you, great- Just don't try to impose your beliefs on me because I have a hard enough time living my life by my own rules let alone yours- But there will never be a time when that overbearing and "omnicient" type of person will ever be convinced that something else seperate from their way of doing things may just work in other's lives

 

[Derek Zeanah]

We are talking about The Bill of Rights and our Constitution and you are quoting the Declaration of Independence. Hellloooo...wake up Derek Zeanah!

The Declaration of Independence is a foundational document -- it's the "why" and "what we want to do" that's at the source of our nation.

Now, it says "all men are created equal," blah blah rights blah government protects those rights. The The Second Amendment says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms..." You want "the people" to mean "folks born here, or nationalized in some way." I'm of the opinion that if we reflect back to the wording of the DOI (foundational document and all that) it makes clear who "the people" in the Bill of Rights refers to.

"Wake up?" Sorry - I assumed the thought process would be clear without having to spell it out.

 

[Big Calhoun]

In a way, I think the gun control debate should be over. IMO, we have seen (time and time again) that the individual behind the gun is the problem, not the gun itself; we've seen that gun-control laws do nothing to control the mind of an individual, and we've repeatedly seen where 'feel good' laws lead to 'don't feel so good now' situations. But the debate will rage on.

The way I see it, this will only strengthen the resolve of some anti-s to go beyond gun-control and push for all out oppression/confiscation. Alot of pro-gun control folks still see gun owners as blood thirsty, off-balanced, rambo wanna-bes. No doubt folks will exploit those pictures of Cho in a futile attempt to prove their point. Hehe, the debate is only beginning and there is still A LOT of headway that must be made.

 

[DawgFvr]

There were no Citizens of the United States of America when the Declaration was drafted! Do not compare apples and oranges...you argue like a liberal Democrat. I am talking about the 2nd Ammendment to our Constitution...written for and by Citizens of the United States! What....you want to arm Arab Terrorists...cuz they are people just like you and me...born equal and free?? Plllleeeze!

 

[engineer151515]

Whatever you think you gained in CCW

you are about to loose with restrictions on large capacity ammunition feeding devices (magazines).

The 2nd Amendment debate has only begun.

 

[alucard0822]

As mutch as I would love to say gun control is dead, im reminded of another hot issue.

There is no better time to kick the gun control crowd than when they are down

 

[Derek Zeanah]

you argue like a liberal Democrat

Thanks, I guess.

There were no Citizens of the United States of America when the Declaration was drafted! Do not compare apples and oranges

So, in 1776 every man had the right to carry a gun, as per the Declaration. Then as of December 15, 1791 (the day the bill of rights was ratified) non-citizens no longer had those rights.

Where, exactly, in that time period did non-citizens lose their rights, and why?