The Hunter Marksman Challenge! use your hunting rifle.

[BrobeeBiter]

Hi Folks!

So I am in the final semester of a graduate degree right now, and I managed to set up one of my courses as a project involving my super-awesome-hobby that is gun enthusiasm! For part of the project, I want to get a bunch of folks to try "The Hunter Rifle Challenge" as per this YouTube video I put together:


http://youtu.be/jmP_MYlTtSo


The initial challenge is modelled after the awesome Cabin Fever Challenge put together by RifleChair; I've tweaked the format so it is more conducive to being done with a run-of-the-mill hunting rifle. The concept is pretty simple:

• 8 inch diameter circle target (click here to download)
• 100 meter range, either formal or informal - anyplace that's legal and safe
• Any hunting rifle - optics/irons all good, any caliber, any action
• 2 rounds standing
• 2 rounds kneeling
• 2 rounds sitting supported
• 2 rounds sitting unsupported
• 2 rounds prone
• Time measured from first shot to last shot (easily accomplished if you video yourself)
• Score = (hits x 100) / time in seconds
• Submit your results in this thread!

If you post your results, it would also be AWESOME to read a bit about what type of rifle you use (type, caliber) and why it's the rifle you chose. Even more awesome would be a photograph of you, your rifle, your target, all in the setting where you shot the exercise.

If I can get enough folks to participate and share their results from their first couple attempts, I'll compile some statistics and share them here in this thread, including results I get from other folks on other forums. In my fantasy world, by the end of February I'd like to get a couple of hundred results to stick into my statistical model.

After we get the baseline data on our collective level of skill right now, I'll post up additional challenges that use reduced-scale targets we'll shoot from the 5 field positions (listed above) at 25 meters to see how much we can improve our positional shooting before next fall. Here's a couple of examples of the targets we'll use for phase II:


Bull Elk
Bull Moose


Sincerely hope folks find it interesting enough to try, and would DEEPLY APPRECIATE folks posting their results here. If you are uncomfortable posting your results in a public forum, I'd also be thrilled to get them via PM and rest assured I would ensure your confidentiality.

Can't wait to see what you come back with!

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[jmr40]

I'm gonna give it a try. May be a week or more before I can get back with the results.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Would a custom hunting type rifle qualify? Or what about non-traditional rifles that I may use to hunt with?

1. Custom 1903a3 "fat" scout
2. FN SPR A1

Would these qualify?

 

[Reloadron]

While I can appreciate my friends to the north you may get more takers with 100 yards verse the 100 meters. Personally I like meters, unfortunately all the ranges I shoot at are marked off in yards.
Really a cool challenge, I just hate the cold and don't bend as well as I once did.

Ron

 

[BrobeeBiter]

Would a custom hunting type rifle qualify? Or what about non-traditional rifles that I may use to hunt with?

1. Custom 1903a3 "fat" scout
2. FN SPR A1

Would these qualify?

You becha! The more rifles, the merrier. All I would ask is that if you share your results (and I REALLY REALLY hope you do!), let us know which rifle generated which scores and times.

I think it would be fascinating to build a monster database that had folks initial scores along with some basic stats on their rifles, then another set of scores after they practiced for a bit. Might there be any correlation between a certain type of rifle and improvement in skill of it's operator over a 6 month period? I'd love to check that out.

Cheers, and thanks for checking out the Challenge!

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

While I can appreciate my friends to the north you may get more takers with 100 yards verse the 100 meters. Personally I like meters, unfortunately all the ranges I shoot at are marked off in yards.
Really a cool challenge, I just hate the cold and don't bend as well as I once did.

Ron

I have no issue at all with someone running the test at 100 yards. Please please please have at her and report back!

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I might have to try this after I get the 1903 dialed in, sounds like much more fun than making groups!

I'll probably do both, exciting stuff!

Oh... can prone be supported (sling or bipod)?

 

[taliv]

good challenge! that is going to be tough to clean
you might want to define kneeling, sitting and "supported" and "unsupported" as that may mean different things to different people. is a sling supported or unsupported?

do you expect people to assume traditional olympic positions? in the matches I shoot, generally "kneeling" is defined as at least one knee on the ground and your butt isn't. "sitting" is defined as your butt is touching the ground. those definitions allow competitors to avail themselves of much more practical positions than typical olympic/NRA HP stuff

 

[BrobeeBiter]

good challenge! that is going to be tough to clean
you might want to define kneeling, sitting and "supported" and "unsupported" as that may mean different things to different people. is a sling supported or unsupported?

do you expect people to assume traditional olympic positions? in the matches I shoot, generally "kneeling" is defined as at least one knee on the ground and your butt isn't. "sitting" is defined as your butt is touching the ground. those definitions allow competitors to avail themselves of much more practical positions than typical olympic/NRA HP stuff

I'm hoping that the challenge can be made to be as inclusive as possible, and along the vein of something practical such that it has value for when we go hunting.

I'm pretty casual about the use of a sling, so much so that as far as I'm concerned the use of a sling still qualifies as "unsupported", especially since most hunting rifles that get hunted with will have one. Fencepost/Log/Treebranch/Vehicle Hood/the-back-of-your-hunting-buddy...these are kinda how I think about "supported".

How I think about kneeling vs sitting...kneeling is higher than sitting with at least one foot planted on the ground. Had not considered that you might shoot it with both knees on the ground, but butt off your heels. Seems like they would both be about the same height (i.e.: you are trying to shoot over tall grass), so they both sound good to me! Additionally, I suppose that squatting sets you up at about the same height too, so I would be ok with either kneeling or squatting...hmmm...have not practiced squatting for a while! Given my mass has increased the past few years, it might be worth trying again! Cool idea, super glad your question made me ponder on it.

Really appreciate your feedback!

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

I might have to try this after I get the 1903 dialed in, sounds like much more fun than making groups!

I'll probably do both, exciting stuff!

Oh... can prone be supported (sling or bipod)?

I would say that if you have your bipod on when hunting, then fill your boots! But then I guess you'd also have to have your bipod on when you shot the other positions... Either way, just make a note of what you did vis-a-vis your rig/rifle when/if you shoot me your scores/times.

Cheers!

Brobee

 

[Hardtarget]

There is a "maybe" range trip Sunday (1/31)

 

[Dr.Rob]

Looks like fun! It would be a neat 'standards' course of fire at our tactical rifle matches, but far more challenging with a bolt or lever gun, given the need to reload.

 

[Hookeye]

LOL, I'm not gonna run my break open TC for that.
Too slow.
If I hit the range Sunday I might take the 700 or AR (both used on yotes).
Might be yote hunting though.

Personally, I think 100 yards offhand should be a gimme.

Before deer season I was shooting golf balls at 75 yards with my TC offhand. But that was after stock mods (adding weight to forend). In stock form 2 yrs ago............holy cow, even taking a knee it was hit them on the third pass and really having to bear down to do it.

Amazing how weight and fit can change a gun to make shooting easier.

 

[jmr40]

you might want to define kneeling, sitting and "supported" and "unsupported" as that may mean different things to different people. is a sling supported or unsupported?

I thought about that too, but after viewing the video will use the same techniques used by the OP

 

[agtman]

Would a custom hunting type rifle qualify? Or what about non-traditional rifles that I may use to hunt with?

1. Custom 1903a3 "fat" scout * * *

Would sure love to see a pic of that one.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

agtman, ask and ye shall recieve. Looking back, I should have went with a GI walnut "C" stock, no SMLE JC flash hider, a shorter barrel, and the A3 barrel contour. It sits at 10.2 pounds right now, but once the barrel burns out I'll make it much lighter.



I'll tell you what though, that stock, fits like a freaking glove! My gunsmith did a great job putting her together. (Circlewood Gunshop, Duncanville, Alabama)

I am going to do the challenge with the optic, and then just run the irons, this'll be fun!

 

[BrobeeBiter]

LOL, I'm not gonna run my break open TC for that.
Too slow.
If I hit the range Sunday I might take the 700 or AR (both used on yotes).
Might be yote hunting though.

Personally, I think 100 yards offhand should be a gimme.

Before deer season I was shooting golf balls at 75 yards with my TC offhand. But that was after stock mods (adding weight to forend). In stock form 2 yrs ago............holy cow, even taking a knee it was hit them on the third pass and really having to bear down to do it.

Amazing how weight and fit can change a gun to make shooting easier.

Ha! I would love to see a guy run it with the good ol TC break open. Regardless of what rifle you choose, can't wait to hear how you make out.

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

agtman, ask and ye shall recieve. Looking back, I should have went with a GI walnut "C" stock, no SMLE JC flash hider, a shorter barrel, and the A3 barrel contour. It sits at 10.2 pounds right now, but once the barrel burns out I'll make it much lighter.



I'll tell you what though, that stock, fits like a freaking glove! My gunsmith did a great job putting her together. (Circlewood Gunshop, Duncanville, Alabama)

I am going to do the challenge with the optic, and then just run the irons, this'll be fun!

OMG, that is one hot looking rifle. Just downloaded a picture and stuck it in my "ideas for next build" folder. I like the SMLE JC flash hider on there...why are you thinking of ditching it? Would you use a front sight block from a regular enfield, or are you thinking something else for the front site on your next re-build?

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Well my main reason for having it is because I have a love affair with bayonets. I'd probably remove it though to save weight if possible. I might leave it on though. Yeah I was thinking about putting a standard A3 front sight or some other hooded sight, but this one is great and I LOVE the sight picture, very Grand/M1Aish.

Full build sheet:
AIM Surplus Remington 1903a3 stripped reciever and stripped bolt
Numrich bolt parts + spare complete bolt
Timney Sportsman's Trigger
A3 rear sight from Numrich
SMLE JC Flash Hider from Numrich
SMLE JC Flash Hider front sight (can't remember where, from some guy in England)
Bartlien 4b barrel at 22", 1-10" twist
Savage scope base modded to fit for scout rail
Leupold QRW rings
Richard's Microfit Winchester Marksman stock, heavily modified by my gunsmith
9 o'clock, 4" picatinny rail on forend (not seen in picture)
3 sling studs
T.A.B. sling in brown (coyote tan or something like that)
Gunkote custom brown mix
Weight: 10.2 pounds

 

[R.W.Dale]

Why in the world would a "hunting marksmanship challenge" involve a reload or two out to a ten round rapid fire string?

As an old timer hunting mentor of mine used to say

One shot is for sure
Two is a maybe
Three is a miss
Four or more is bull€¥+#

 

[BrobeeBiter]

Why in the world would a "hunting marksmanship challenge" involve a reload or two out to a ten round rapid fire string?

As an old timer hunting mentor of mine used to say

One shot is for sure
Two is a maybe
Three is a miss
Four or more is bull€¥+#

Fair enough.

I'm a big advocate for taking whatever time and discipline is required to make that first shot count. I've also been thankful a couple of times when I've screwed up the first one and skillfully (as a result of practice) followed up quick with a second. I agree completely that in a genuine hunting situation, beyond 2 rounds you are sinking into the realm of spray-and-pray.

But as an exercise to get folks manipulating their rifles, shooting from different positions, and generally becoming familiar with their limitations, I thought it was maybe not that bad an exercise. What kind of practice do you think would be more effective for a hunter in the off season?

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[agtman]

P.B.Walsh: very nice looking (and interesting) "Scout"-type rifle!

Thanks for posting the pic.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I would say a two shot standing then drop to a single shot kneeling would be realistic without going into the whole reload angle which does not apply in hunting with the possible exception of a single shot.

Which realistically if you can peg that 8" kill zone with the first two standing the kneeling part is rather moot.

 

[jmr40]

Having 10 shots and a reload are not realistic for hunting. But would help to duplicate the stress (buck fever) of shooting at a live animal after being walking uphill.

One other question. When do I start the timer, at the 1st shot, or prior to mounting the rifle?

 

[BrobeeBiter]

I would say a two shot standing then drop to a single shot kneeling would be realistic without going into the whole reload angle which does not apply in hunting with the possible exception of a single shot.

Which realistically if you can peg that 8" kill zone with the first two standing the kneeling part is rather moot.

A couple of the follow up exercises I've got slated to post after folks complete their "baseline" follow this course-of-fire...it's a great suggestion!

Cheers,

Brobee