The Kel-Tec KSG got an upgrade!
- Thread starter Precision
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I love how these posts always become some kind of referendum on the Saiga 12.
I think the KSG is extremely innovative and am glad it's a pump. I run pump shotties or double barrels. And it's a bull-pup, that's cool! Its compact! And 14 rounds on tap that I can switch between buck or slug, that's nice! And good lord if I run through 14 rounds and need to reload (quickly), I've got major issues. I think it's a really optimal, realistic home defense shotgun (or truck gun/survival gun). I'm looking forward to the street price, availability and beta testers reports. It's a very cool idea, but I won't be one of the first to get one.
I think the KSG is extremely innovative and am glad it's a pump. I run pump shotties or double barrels. And it's a bull-pup, that's cool! Its compact! And 14 rounds on tap that I can switch between buck or slug, that's nice! And good lord if I run through 14 rounds and need to reload (quickly), I've got major issues. I think it's a really optimal, realistic home defense shotgun (or truck gun/survival gun). I'm looking forward to the street price, availability and beta testers reports. It's a very cool idea, but I won't be one of the first to get one.
PT92
Member
I'm not even certain it's a Saiga vs Pump issue here or even in the thousands of other similar threads. I think it's more a pump vs. semi debate synonymous with the age old revolver vs. semi argument.
For me an average civilian, it's never really been a concern as I have and use all of the above all with complete confidence.
That being said, I am a semi-auto kind of guy when it comes to a SHTF type situation (that is why I think you see almost entirely semi-autos in the Military and LE).
So for me, when push comes to shove and while I have COMPLETE confidence in my Mossberg 500, if the SHTF, this is what I will be using:
For me an average civilian, it's never really been a concern as I have and use all of the above all with complete confidence.
That being said, I am a semi-auto kind of guy when it comes to a SHTF type situation (that is why I think you see almost entirely semi-autos in the Military and LE).
So for me, when push comes to shove and while I have COMPLETE confidence in my Mossberg 500, if the SHTF, this is what I will be using:
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Purgatory
Member
That's a sweet set-up, PT.
I could probably deal with that being my primary long gun in many situations.
How many shells does that mag hold?
I could probably deal with that being my primary long gun in many situations.
How many shells does that mag hold?
PT92
Member
Thanks Purgatory,
This particular one holds ten rounds. The original factory mags ship with IZHMASH five round mags (due to the import capacity restrictions) but I did manage to locate some eight round original IZHMASH magazines which are the best IMHO.
Of course, they make nice twenty round drums as well but for me, weight becomes a bit of an issue at that point. But that being said, my buddy uses his Saiga 12 with the drum and he is very proficient with it.
I love my Remington 1187-P model, but there's something incredibly reliable about the AK action that just works all of the time in a simple mechanical manner. Conversely, when I break down the gas systems on my Remingtons, they seem a bit more complex and delicate relative to the elements.
-Cheers
This particular one holds ten rounds. The original factory mags ship with IZHMASH five round mags (due to the import capacity restrictions) but I did manage to locate some eight round original IZHMASH magazines which are the best IMHO.
Of course, they make nice twenty round drums as well but for me, weight becomes a bit of an issue at that point. But that being said, my buddy uses his Saiga 12 with the drum and he is very proficient with it.
I love my Remington 1187-P model, but there's something incredibly reliable about the AK action that just works all of the time in a simple mechanical manner. Conversely, when I break down the gas systems on my Remingtons, they seem a bit more complex and delicate relative to the elements.
-Cheers
Mike1234567
member
Don't neglect the budget-priced 12 round ProMag drums for the Saiga 12ga. Unlike their stick mags they have an excellent reputation and they're tiny compared to the 20 round drums. They're small enough to keep out of the way and much shorter than hi-cap stick mags... an excellent compromise, IMHO.
Shadow 7D
Member
The trick with a PUMP shotgun is you don't have to worry about what type of round you are shooting
Door buster
Bean bag, taser, baton, stingers (rubber shot)
Heavy Mag 000 buck
Try shooting a mag of those through a semi,
something like a S12 will either beat itself apart, or choke on the light rounds.
Pump will eat them all,
One of the Ideas behind this gun is one mag could be less lethal and the other slug or shot (Don't think a good idea...)
Or one could be buck, the other slug.
Door buster
Bean bag, taser, baton, stingers (rubber shot)
Heavy Mag 000 buck
Try shooting a mag of those through a semi,
something like a S12 will either beat itself apart, or choke on the light rounds.
Pump will eat them all,
One of the Ideas behind this gun is one mag could be less lethal and the other slug or shot (Don't think a good idea...)
Or one could be buck, the other slug.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I think it's mostly about having higher capacity and possibly running one tube of buck and one of slugs.
When it comes to using less-lethal tools, everything I've ever seen shows a deliberate attempt on the part of policy makers to draw a pretty bright distinction between weapons that are less lethal and weapons that are most assuredly lethal.
When it comes to using less-lethal tools, everything I've ever seen shows a deliberate attempt on the part of policy makers to draw a pretty bright distinction between weapons that are less lethal and weapons that are most assuredly lethal.
MCgunner
Member
For 600 bucks, I could get that BPS 10 gauge I kinda still want. 
I have a Kel Tec 9mm carry gun I love, not a basher. I just don't need a tacticool shotgun.
I have a Kel Tec 9mm carry gun I love, not a basher. I just don't need a tacticool shotgun.PT92
Member
Not to go completely off the thread subject, but I have both a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 9mm Carbine and their P11 9MM and they are two of my best value for the dollar guns if you will (meaning that at the time I would rather have bought a Ruger or S&W but didn't have the fully available funds) and fun as heck to shoot. That being said, I have not yet fired 1000 rounds through either (just my personal test for durability) but I am relatively confident that they will both hold up (Sub-2000 has fired 600 and the P-11 just several hundred rounds so far and no problems using all types of ammo with the one caveat being that I did do the fluff and buff on the feed ramp on both guns to ensure HP cycling). Along those same lines, I am proud to say that I have fired 10K rounds with my Ruger P-95 which for me personally is the most ammo I have fired via one particular weapon. It looks a bit worn here and there but is utterly reliable like a freaking tank.
-Cheers
-Cheers
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Purgatory
Member
Originally posted by PT92:
Not to STAY off topic, but I have been interested in the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm myself. One restraining factor has been the lack of a significant increase in 9mm velocity going from handgun to rifle barrel.
I know 9mm is just fine out to 100 yards, but how does it do beyond that out of the longer barrel?
Just briefly, so we can get back on topic, how has yours performed accuracy-wise, etc. at the farther ranges?
Not to STAY off topic, but I have been interested in the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm myself. One restraining factor has been the lack of a significant increase in 9mm velocity going from handgun to rifle barrel.
I know 9mm is just fine out to 100 yards, but how does it do beyond that out of the longer barrel?
Just briefly, so we can get back on topic, how has yours performed accuracy-wise, etc. at the farther ranges?
PT92
Member
Purgatory,
I have shot mine only up to 100 yards (that's the best range I have available in my area) so I cannot personally speak to the accuracy of the Sub-2000 beyond that.
However, according to some research I did prior to buying it, it is reported to be accurate at over 100 yards. Here's a quick link speaking to such (I saw some youtube vids that showed 100+ yard shots as well):
http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec_Sub2000.htm
-Cheers
I have shot mine only up to 100 yards (that's the best range I have available in my area) so I cannot personally speak to the accuracy of the Sub-2000 beyond that.
However, according to some research I did prior to buying it, it is reported to be accurate at over 100 yards. Here's a quick link speaking to such (I saw some youtube vids that showed 100+ yard shots as well):
http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec_Sub2000.htm
-Cheers
MCgunner
Member
My P11 has well over 11,000 rounds through it in the 15 years I've owned, fired, and carried it as a primary CCW. Ths Kel Tec is durable enough. I'm sure the shotgun is, too.
Precision
member
The KSG is compatible with any and all AR-15 accessories and upgrades, such as red dot sights, foregrips, flashlights, lasers, and BUIS. As far as flipping tubes, yes you have to do it manually but it takes less than a second and frankly gives you much more versatility than having it do it for you. If you don't like the idea of manually flipping the switch, just remember that on ANY other gun, including a Saiga, a quick-slug changeover would take several seconds, possibly even 5. The KSG is literally good to go with a flip of the switch and a rack of the pump.
451 Detonics
Member
I have owned 6 Kel Tec firearms, my brother owns 4 and my Dad 2, none of us have had to do anything to make the guns functional. There are some things you can do to make the gun more comfortable to shoot, look better, have a better trigger but they all worked flawlessly straight from the box.
MCgunner
Member
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You left a the same link in a thread in the autopistol forum. Neither link works. You should polish your spammer creds.
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lanternlad1
Member
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I'll wait until Ruger steals the design before I buy one...
Purgatory
Member
Originally posted by Snakyjake:
With all due respect, Jake, did you watch the short video on the Original Post?
It answers all these questions.
I am FAR from a Kel-Tec fanboy, don't even own a single model, but this design doesn't seem that complicated or issue-laden to me.
I get the impression some people are really 'reaching' to come up with issues with this shotgun.
Disclaimer: And I'm not referring to anyone in particular.
With all due respect, Jake, did you watch the short video on the Original Post?
It answers all these questions.
I am FAR from a Kel-Tec fanboy, don't even own a single model, but this design doesn't seem that complicated or issue-laden to me.
I get the impression some people are really 'reaching' to come up with issues with this shotgun.
Disclaimer: And I'm not referring to anyone in particular.
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