Schwing
Member
I recently started a thread to get some impressions about whether to buy a new pro1000 or get a Loadmaster. That thread is here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764201
I am starting a new one after having spent some time with both presses. Like every other Lee press thread, I feel the need to preface this by asking those who have nothing but negative things to say about them to leave it at the door. We all know the drill. “Hornady, Dillon and just about every press out there is better…” People buy Lee presses for a reason. Either another press just isn’t in the budget or they have read about how great they can be if set up and tuned properly.
I have had a Pro1000 for a few years now and have been pretty content with it. During the summer months, I shoot about 300-400 rounds per week and it has been more than up to the task. I have yet to replace a single part on it which I find quite impressive. I only reload pistol calibers so I have never seen an urgent need for more than 3 stations. I have wondered for many years though how the Loadmaster and Pro1000 stack up against each other and have toyed with buying the Loadmaster for a long time. Over Black Friday weekend, I finally broke down and took the plunge. I know the question comes up a lot with new reloaders or with folks who want to go from a single stage or even a turret to a progressive on a budget. Until now, I had no idea what to say. Hopefully this will be of some use.
I wanted to spend some time actually using the Loadmaster before sharing any first impressions and comparing it to the Pro1000. It has been a couple of weeks now since the initial un-boxing so I will share my observations so far. This is long and I claim no particular eloquence so feel free to ask questions and I will answer as best I can.
A few years ago as a new reloader, I spent a couple of weeks in frustration over my Pro1000 before swallowing my pride and watching many of the YouTube videos and reading other materials available to improve the press. It truly did transform what I initially thought to be a real peace of garbage into a very reliable and easy to use press. Not wanting to repeat my error I did the research before my first use on the Loadmaster. I can’t stress this advice enough. If you have a new Lee press and have issues with it, check out YouTube and you will have it humming along in no time.
I spent some time polishing the underside of the shell plates and the carrier as recommended. I then increased slightly and buffed the bevel on the indexing rod and buffed out the stamp marks on the bolt that acts as the primer rocker stop. All of this was done with very light motions on a buffing wheel. I then checked all of the other moving parts for any needed finish work and was pleasantly surprised that it didn't need any. These recommendations were found on the www.loadmastervideos.com site. I kept track of my time. It took less than a total of 2 hours to un-box the press and set it up with the work mentioned above. Seriously, this press comes just about ready to roll. Sans the polishing, it is easily up and running in 30 minutes.
I inserted the turret with my .45acp dies installed and spent some time running one case through each station to adjust and verify sizing, flaring, powder drops, bullet seating depth and crimp. After about another hour, and having no issues, I was ready to go progressive.
It was humming along and I was quite impressed until the primer rocker arm shattered. I had read that this can happen if any of the dies are screwed down too far so I double checked all of mine and they were right where they were supposed to be. True as always, Lee shipped me out a replacement and I had it two days later. Unfortunately, Lee had no other suggestions as to what might have caused this besides low dies or a defective part so I still have no idea why this happened. It took about 5 minutes to install the replacement. I then proceeded to load about 120 rounds with no issues. I stopped there and have not had a chance to actually test them for accuracy etc. It is a known load so I don't anticipate problems but I felt it best to test them before getting too industrious.
My first impressions are mixed. The broken rocker arm was quite a let-down, especially so early on so I do have some hesitation about that. Lee took care of it so I guess I can move on… We will see how the new one fairs.
I really like being able to seat and crimp in 2 separate stations but am a little disappointed in the OAL variations I am seeing. I use powder coated bullets so lube buildup is not an issue. I suspect it is shell plate wobble. On my Pro1000, I rarely see variations +- .003. On the Loadmaster, I am seeing variations as high as +-.005. Not huge... but not better and kind of skewers part of my purpose in wanting separate seating/crimping stations.
Indexing… Going from the Pro1000 to the Loadmaster is going to require some changes in mindset and habits as far as indexing goes. While I like how you can manually index the Pro1000 in either direction if the press is mid-stroke, it leaves the door open for double charging the case, especially if you use the return spring modification on the powder measure instead of the chain. It does make it nice when working up loads to be able to remove cases mid-stroke and then put them back in any station and rotate the shell plate to the desired station. You can still rotate the shell plate counter-clockwise on the Loadmaster if the indexing rod is pulled all of the way out but it will not let you rotate clockwise. You could still possibly put yourself in the position to get a double charge this way but it requires a lot more effort. It also means that you can’t just put an already primed case in station 3 and short stroke the press to get it back to station 2 like you can on the Pro1000. The only way to do so would either be to deprime the case again or empty the primer tray so you don’t try to drive a second primer into the case. I don’t think this is going to be an issue once I get used to the operation of the press.
The handle… I had a lot of initial trepidation about that wood ball handle on the Loadmaster having been spoiled with the padded handle on the Pro1000. While I still do prefer the padded handle, the wood ball is no big deal. The longer handle and better leverage on the Loadmaster more than make up for it. There are aftermarket handles that are designed more like the handle on the Pro1000 but they are a bit pricey. Time will tell if one is needed.
De-capping… One of my biggest complaints about the Pro1000 is that the spent primers fall into the base of the press. Eventually, it fills up. If you let it overfill, it jams up the carrier. You have to remove the press from the bench and slide it out over a garbage can to empty it. If you have a crappy memory like I do, you almost always end up with spent primers all over the floor when you remove the press for some other reason and forget it is full of primers. I recently drilled a hole through my bench and mounted a primer catch to eliminate the problem but it still always bothered me that it was designed this way. On the Loadmaster, they improved upon this by channeling the spent primers down into the ram. There is a small door on the bottom of the ram that can be opened to empty it. It kind of killed my hole in the bench modification but it works. At least this way, you don’t forget and spill primers all over the floor.
The priming system… IMHO it is, hands down, better than the Pro1000. On the 120 or so rounds loaded I had no feeding or seating issues of any kind. While I don't often have sideways or otherwise troubled primers on the Pro1000, they do still happen on occasion and they happened frustratingly often until I used the copper wire modification to shake the primer tray more during the up and down strokes. The Pro1000 also takes a lot more effort to seat primers. Having said that, it is odd priming on the down stroke. It kind of takes the "Feeling it seat" factor out of the equation. It also makes me glad I bought the “Explosion shield” as I don’t believe I would be able to feel a primer being crushed on the Loadmaster like I can on the Pro1000. On the Pro1000, it is not uncommon for powder flakes to fall into the primer slide. It is an open slide and it sits nearly directly under the hopper. This is probably the biggest cause of sideways primers or primers hanging up on the Pro1000. On the Loadmaster they corrected this by adding a cover to the top of the slide. It is still too early for me to dub it solid but I would say that the modifications Lee made on the priming system were at least step in the right direction.
For powder… I use the Lee perfect powder measure with the return spring modification instead of the chain to flare and drop powder. It is the same system I use on my Pro1000 and the accuracy of the drops, reliability etc. were similar on the Loadmaster. Double charging is still a danger with this press but less so than on the Pro1000. I will cover that a little bit further down.
Seating and crimping… While done on 2 stations instead of one, seating and crimping were pretty non-eventful except for the disappointing increase in OAL variation mentioned earlier. I intend to see what can be done about that and suspect there are solutions I don’t know about yet. Even if this turns out to be the norm, +-.005 does not cause issues for any of the guns a reload for.
Case ejector and slide… While I recognize that the case ejector and slide might seem like minor things to be excited about, I can say that they are 100% better on the Loadmaster and are a big part of the reason I might lean toward it. On the Pro1000, the ejector rod is just a piece of steel rod. It doesn't take much for it to bend or move. To put it into perspective, I actually replaced mine with a hair pin and the hair pin works better than the original. On the Loadmaster, it is a metal clip that gets screwed down to the shell plate. it doesn't move and the design makes it so it is never going to bend or break. The slide is another huge improvement. On the Pro1000, it is longer and narrow. Rounds tend to log jam sideways about half way down the ramp. This is especially bad on longer rounds like .357 or .44 but it happens with all of the calibers I reload. The slide is wider and shorter on the Loadmaster. With only 120 rounds through it, I can't say it will never be a problem but my initial observations are that it won't be.
Caliber Changes… For those of you who own the Pro1000 and like how easy it is to do a caliber change, it is WAY easier on the Loadmaster. You simply remove the shell plate bolt and the shell plate easily pops off for replacement. You then loosen the thumb screw holding the turret in place and replace it. No tools are required for this and a caliber change can easily be done in less than 2 minutes. If switching from a small to large primers ( or the reverse), it is just a matter of lifting out the primer slide and replacing it before putting the shell plate back on. This adds no more than 60 seconds to the process. On the Pro1000, it is far from difficult but it does require tools and takes me about 10 minutes. I would say around 15 if switching to a different primer size. This is because you have to remove the entire carrier on the Pro1000 to switch to a different primer. I have seen videos where people accomplish this in about 2 minutes but my hands just don’t move that fast. Others opt to just replace the primer slide but I have found this takes about as much time as just pulling the entire carrier.
As far as choosing or recommending one over the other, here are my impressions:
If you reload pistol calibers only and don’t or rarely reload magnum cartridges with crimp grooves, I would opt for the Pro1000 with no reservations. You don’t have any disadvantage seating and crimping in the same station with these rounds. For around $150 with everything you need for one caliber, it is a great value. It takes up less space and things like turrets and shell plates are much less expensive.
If you are going to reload for any rifle caliber, including .223 and/or you reload magnum cartridges with a crimp groove, I would opt for the Loadmaster. While you can reload .223 on the Pro1000, I don’t like the seating and crimping together for that round. I have seen modifications where people grind out the center of a turret on the Pro1000 and use it by manually indexing to reload other taller rifle calibers but it just isn’t worth the hassle when the Loadmaster can be had for about $75 more.
If you do not consider yourself massively meticulous or otherwise are incapable of going slow enough to visually verify the powder charge in each case, the Loadmaster wins again. I have never worried about getting a double charge or a squib with my Pro1000, even with the spring return modification, because I go slowly and I stop and look into every single case every single time. The Loadmaster would give those loaders who just have to crank out 600 rounds per hour the ability to use a lockout die or similar.
If you reload a lot of lead cast bullets and find yourself needing to use a non-powder through die like the Lyman M-die, the Loadmaster wins once again. For my 9MM setup, I have to use a Lyman M-die to get enough flare to seat my oversize bullets. On the Pro1000, I had to run through all of my shells twice, not that this is the end of the world but it sure is nice to have it all done the first time around.
If you reload multiple calibers, like to load a few rounds at a time and are constantly changing between calibers, the Loadmaster is the only way to go. The shell plates and turrets cost a bit more but changing calibers is so simple and quick that it is well worth the cost.
The Bottom Line:
I can’t give my full endorsement to the Loadmaster yet, especially with the broken rocker arm so soon but I plan on doing a high quantity of .45 .357 and .44 over the holidays so time will tell. I will hit the range this weekend and test the rounds I have already loaded but I am confident they will be fine. I have to say that I am impressed with the quality of the press and, frankly, the simplicity of the design after having read so many negative things about it. At the price point it is certainly worth it. One of my buddies has a Hornady and a Dillon. He has been so impressed with it that he is thinking about ordering one. He is single with no kids so...
I hope this is helpful for anyone trying to decide between the two presses. As stated earlier, feel free to ask questions and I will answer if I can.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764201
I am starting a new one after having spent some time with both presses. Like every other Lee press thread, I feel the need to preface this by asking those who have nothing but negative things to say about them to leave it at the door. We all know the drill. “Hornady, Dillon and just about every press out there is better…” People buy Lee presses for a reason. Either another press just isn’t in the budget or they have read about how great they can be if set up and tuned properly.
I have had a Pro1000 for a few years now and have been pretty content with it. During the summer months, I shoot about 300-400 rounds per week and it has been more than up to the task. I have yet to replace a single part on it which I find quite impressive. I only reload pistol calibers so I have never seen an urgent need for more than 3 stations. I have wondered for many years though how the Loadmaster and Pro1000 stack up against each other and have toyed with buying the Loadmaster for a long time. Over Black Friday weekend, I finally broke down and took the plunge. I know the question comes up a lot with new reloaders or with folks who want to go from a single stage or even a turret to a progressive on a budget. Until now, I had no idea what to say. Hopefully this will be of some use.
I wanted to spend some time actually using the Loadmaster before sharing any first impressions and comparing it to the Pro1000. It has been a couple of weeks now since the initial un-boxing so I will share my observations so far. This is long and I claim no particular eloquence so feel free to ask questions and I will answer as best I can.
A few years ago as a new reloader, I spent a couple of weeks in frustration over my Pro1000 before swallowing my pride and watching many of the YouTube videos and reading other materials available to improve the press. It truly did transform what I initially thought to be a real peace of garbage into a very reliable and easy to use press. Not wanting to repeat my error I did the research before my first use on the Loadmaster. I can’t stress this advice enough. If you have a new Lee press and have issues with it, check out YouTube and you will have it humming along in no time.
I spent some time polishing the underside of the shell plates and the carrier as recommended. I then increased slightly and buffed the bevel on the indexing rod and buffed out the stamp marks on the bolt that acts as the primer rocker stop. All of this was done with very light motions on a buffing wheel. I then checked all of the other moving parts for any needed finish work and was pleasantly surprised that it didn't need any. These recommendations were found on the www.loadmastervideos.com site. I kept track of my time. It took less than a total of 2 hours to un-box the press and set it up with the work mentioned above. Seriously, this press comes just about ready to roll. Sans the polishing, it is easily up and running in 30 minutes.
I inserted the turret with my .45acp dies installed and spent some time running one case through each station to adjust and verify sizing, flaring, powder drops, bullet seating depth and crimp. After about another hour, and having no issues, I was ready to go progressive.
It was humming along and I was quite impressed until the primer rocker arm shattered. I had read that this can happen if any of the dies are screwed down too far so I double checked all of mine and they were right where they were supposed to be. True as always, Lee shipped me out a replacement and I had it two days later. Unfortunately, Lee had no other suggestions as to what might have caused this besides low dies or a defective part so I still have no idea why this happened. It took about 5 minutes to install the replacement. I then proceeded to load about 120 rounds with no issues. I stopped there and have not had a chance to actually test them for accuracy etc. It is a known load so I don't anticipate problems but I felt it best to test them before getting too industrious.
My first impressions are mixed. The broken rocker arm was quite a let-down, especially so early on so I do have some hesitation about that. Lee took care of it so I guess I can move on… We will see how the new one fairs.
I really like being able to seat and crimp in 2 separate stations but am a little disappointed in the OAL variations I am seeing. I use powder coated bullets so lube buildup is not an issue. I suspect it is shell plate wobble. On my Pro1000, I rarely see variations +- .003. On the Loadmaster, I am seeing variations as high as +-.005. Not huge... but not better and kind of skewers part of my purpose in wanting separate seating/crimping stations.
Indexing… Going from the Pro1000 to the Loadmaster is going to require some changes in mindset and habits as far as indexing goes. While I like how you can manually index the Pro1000 in either direction if the press is mid-stroke, it leaves the door open for double charging the case, especially if you use the return spring modification on the powder measure instead of the chain. It does make it nice when working up loads to be able to remove cases mid-stroke and then put them back in any station and rotate the shell plate to the desired station. You can still rotate the shell plate counter-clockwise on the Loadmaster if the indexing rod is pulled all of the way out but it will not let you rotate clockwise. You could still possibly put yourself in the position to get a double charge this way but it requires a lot more effort. It also means that you can’t just put an already primed case in station 3 and short stroke the press to get it back to station 2 like you can on the Pro1000. The only way to do so would either be to deprime the case again or empty the primer tray so you don’t try to drive a second primer into the case. I don’t think this is going to be an issue once I get used to the operation of the press.
The handle… I had a lot of initial trepidation about that wood ball handle on the Loadmaster having been spoiled with the padded handle on the Pro1000. While I still do prefer the padded handle, the wood ball is no big deal. The longer handle and better leverage on the Loadmaster more than make up for it. There are aftermarket handles that are designed more like the handle on the Pro1000 but they are a bit pricey. Time will tell if one is needed.
De-capping… One of my biggest complaints about the Pro1000 is that the spent primers fall into the base of the press. Eventually, it fills up. If you let it overfill, it jams up the carrier. You have to remove the press from the bench and slide it out over a garbage can to empty it. If you have a crappy memory like I do, you almost always end up with spent primers all over the floor when you remove the press for some other reason and forget it is full of primers. I recently drilled a hole through my bench and mounted a primer catch to eliminate the problem but it still always bothered me that it was designed this way. On the Loadmaster, they improved upon this by channeling the spent primers down into the ram. There is a small door on the bottom of the ram that can be opened to empty it. It kind of killed my hole in the bench modification but it works. At least this way, you don’t forget and spill primers all over the floor.
The priming system… IMHO it is, hands down, better than the Pro1000. On the 120 or so rounds loaded I had no feeding or seating issues of any kind. While I don't often have sideways or otherwise troubled primers on the Pro1000, they do still happen on occasion and they happened frustratingly often until I used the copper wire modification to shake the primer tray more during the up and down strokes. The Pro1000 also takes a lot more effort to seat primers. Having said that, it is odd priming on the down stroke. It kind of takes the "Feeling it seat" factor out of the equation. It also makes me glad I bought the “Explosion shield” as I don’t believe I would be able to feel a primer being crushed on the Loadmaster like I can on the Pro1000. On the Pro1000, it is not uncommon for powder flakes to fall into the primer slide. It is an open slide and it sits nearly directly under the hopper. This is probably the biggest cause of sideways primers or primers hanging up on the Pro1000. On the Loadmaster they corrected this by adding a cover to the top of the slide. It is still too early for me to dub it solid but I would say that the modifications Lee made on the priming system were at least step in the right direction.
For powder… I use the Lee perfect powder measure with the return spring modification instead of the chain to flare and drop powder. It is the same system I use on my Pro1000 and the accuracy of the drops, reliability etc. were similar on the Loadmaster. Double charging is still a danger with this press but less so than on the Pro1000. I will cover that a little bit further down.
Seating and crimping… While done on 2 stations instead of one, seating and crimping were pretty non-eventful except for the disappointing increase in OAL variation mentioned earlier. I intend to see what can be done about that and suspect there are solutions I don’t know about yet. Even if this turns out to be the norm, +-.005 does not cause issues for any of the guns a reload for.
Case ejector and slide… While I recognize that the case ejector and slide might seem like minor things to be excited about, I can say that they are 100% better on the Loadmaster and are a big part of the reason I might lean toward it. On the Pro1000, the ejector rod is just a piece of steel rod. It doesn't take much for it to bend or move. To put it into perspective, I actually replaced mine with a hair pin and the hair pin works better than the original. On the Loadmaster, it is a metal clip that gets screwed down to the shell plate. it doesn't move and the design makes it so it is never going to bend or break. The slide is another huge improvement. On the Pro1000, it is longer and narrow. Rounds tend to log jam sideways about half way down the ramp. This is especially bad on longer rounds like .357 or .44 but it happens with all of the calibers I reload. The slide is wider and shorter on the Loadmaster. With only 120 rounds through it, I can't say it will never be a problem but my initial observations are that it won't be.
Caliber Changes… For those of you who own the Pro1000 and like how easy it is to do a caliber change, it is WAY easier on the Loadmaster. You simply remove the shell plate bolt and the shell plate easily pops off for replacement. You then loosen the thumb screw holding the turret in place and replace it. No tools are required for this and a caliber change can easily be done in less than 2 minutes. If switching from a small to large primers ( or the reverse), it is just a matter of lifting out the primer slide and replacing it before putting the shell plate back on. This adds no more than 60 seconds to the process. On the Pro1000, it is far from difficult but it does require tools and takes me about 10 minutes. I would say around 15 if switching to a different primer size. This is because you have to remove the entire carrier on the Pro1000 to switch to a different primer. I have seen videos where people accomplish this in about 2 minutes but my hands just don’t move that fast. Others opt to just replace the primer slide but I have found this takes about as much time as just pulling the entire carrier.
As far as choosing or recommending one over the other, here are my impressions:
If you reload pistol calibers only and don’t or rarely reload magnum cartridges with crimp grooves, I would opt for the Pro1000 with no reservations. You don’t have any disadvantage seating and crimping in the same station with these rounds. For around $150 with everything you need for one caliber, it is a great value. It takes up less space and things like turrets and shell plates are much less expensive.
If you are going to reload for any rifle caliber, including .223 and/or you reload magnum cartridges with a crimp groove, I would opt for the Loadmaster. While you can reload .223 on the Pro1000, I don’t like the seating and crimping together for that round. I have seen modifications where people grind out the center of a turret on the Pro1000 and use it by manually indexing to reload other taller rifle calibers but it just isn’t worth the hassle when the Loadmaster can be had for about $75 more.
If you do not consider yourself massively meticulous or otherwise are incapable of going slow enough to visually verify the powder charge in each case, the Loadmaster wins again. I have never worried about getting a double charge or a squib with my Pro1000, even with the spring return modification, because I go slowly and I stop and look into every single case every single time. The Loadmaster would give those loaders who just have to crank out 600 rounds per hour the ability to use a lockout die or similar.
If you reload a lot of lead cast bullets and find yourself needing to use a non-powder through die like the Lyman M-die, the Loadmaster wins once again. For my 9MM setup, I have to use a Lyman M-die to get enough flare to seat my oversize bullets. On the Pro1000, I had to run through all of my shells twice, not that this is the end of the world but it sure is nice to have it all done the first time around.
If you reload multiple calibers, like to load a few rounds at a time and are constantly changing between calibers, the Loadmaster is the only way to go. The shell plates and turrets cost a bit more but changing calibers is so simple and quick that it is well worth the cost.
The Bottom Line:
I can’t give my full endorsement to the Loadmaster yet, especially with the broken rocker arm so soon but I plan on doing a high quantity of .45 .357 and .44 over the holidays so time will tell. I will hit the range this weekend and test the rounds I have already loaded but I am confident they will be fine. I have to say that I am impressed with the quality of the press and, frankly, the simplicity of the design after having read so many negative things about it. At the price point it is certainly worth it. One of my buddies has a Hornady and a Dillon. He has been so impressed with it that he is thinking about ordering one. He is single with no kids so...
I hope this is helpful for anyone trying to decide between the two presses. As stated earlier, feel free to ask questions and I will answer if I can.
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