The Mysterious Taboo Around Open Carry...

[Zedicus]

Whoa whoa, Lots of Replys here, some good, some not so good...

Calm down peeps, lot of you totally overlooked where is said "Where Legal" & "If done Properly".

I'll say it again, This would work Flawlessly if we A) do it right, and B) Be Well Acquainted with Local Laws where we would do this, and C) Have a our Lawyer's Phone no on Cellphone Speed Dial (precautionary measure)

Also Starting in Open Carry friendly areas & Gradually creeping into not so Open Carry Friendly areas, may be a good idea, & at least save the police a lot of headaches.

& I liked the Analogy of how Black People had to Reclaim there Rights.

Other than that, Keep up the Discussion!
Were moving in the Right Direction from the looks of many posts.

If we do this Right, the Anti's will not notice what is happening until it is WAY to late.

Moderators: any chance this may Earn being Stuck to the top of the Threads?

 

[Oleg Volk]

Years ago, the sight of an automobile would have horses breaking their tie-ropes and bolting away in panic.

Nowadays, they ignore them.

I wonder why?

One reason is familiarity --- another is better mufflers. Try driving an unmuffled car, you'll get attention. Same with guns?

 

[sendec]

I intensely dislike the analogy of the civil rights movement, particularly when the carriage of concealed weapons is legal. You are talking about a personal preference versus a denial of basic human rights by force of law and violence. When open carriers are lynched, denied access to voting, jobs and education, and required to use seperate restrooms, then the analogy fits.

I am not certain that there is a "mysterious taboo" about open carry. I have'nt been to Israel, but I understand it is common there. I also have'nt been to Switzerland, but I understand that it is uncommon, though everyone has access to a battle rifle. One place violence is common, the other it is not. It is a complex issue, and not likely to be solved in the foyer of a Starbuck's.

Anyone who thinks that horses cannot be spooked by cars has'nt been around a lot of horses

 

[MikeJ]

Having grown up in Arizona where open carry is legal, I can tell you that most people that are non gun people, not necessarily antis, feel that people who carry guns on their person openly are:
a. paranoid
b. trying to be macho
c. living on the edge in a dangerous lifestyle.

How do I know this, because I was a non gunner until my mid thirties, some 20 years ago. and am very familiar with that train of thought. It was also pretty obvious that the great majority of people that open carried many years ago were for the most part bikers and they didn't have the greatest reputations anyway. No offense to our biking friends out there, I have a friend with a Harley myself.

One point I always bring up to people that are suspicious and afraid of someone that is openly carrying a gun is that in order to have a weapon you have to be law abiding, therefore the folks you see with a gun haven't been convicted of any major felonies. If they had they would be in real trouble again for possessing a firearm.

 

[TallPine]

required to use seperate restrooms

Hey, that's a good idea - they should provide us gunnies with our own gun-friendly restrooms, complete with racks to hang your firearm on while you are taking care of business, and ammo sold in vending machines just in case you run out.

 

[MNCCW]

I intensely dislike the analogy of the civil rights movement, particularly when the carriage of concealed weapons is legal. You are talking about a personal preference versus a denial of basic human rights by force of law and violence. When open carriers are lynched, denied access to voting, jobs and education, and required to use seperate restrooms, then the analogy fits.

I agree that the fight for rights for blacks may not be a sound analogy with ours, but how about the time after they won their rights, but nothing had changed. We have the right open to carry a weapon, but we choose not to because we fear the social repercussions, much like a black man had the right to vote before 1957, but a majority would not (less then 20%). They were required to take tests to prove they could competently vote, and they had the very real threat of violence it they chose to. It wasn't until 1965 that a majority of black people would vote.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I sometimes carry openly, since that is legal here, to acclimate people to the sight of sidearms. Last week, I was at an Asian food market, shopping. After about fifteen minutes, one of the people working there (a nice Koran lady, a co-owner?) walked up to me, saying "Cover it up, you are scaring people!" Seems that a couple of her cashiers decided they were going to get robbed (right after I'd finish shopping). She told them I was a known customer.

I showed her a couple of CHL cards, explained the TN law and gave her link to packing.org, THR and my Human Right site. She also got a 9mm JHP from my spare magazine to keep as a souvenier. Her comment was that I should have stopped by one the weekend when they had people come in, grab a case of beer and walk right out, daring anyone to stop them. Had to explain that drawing on them would not have been a good idea. She said she'd like her husband to get trained, I suggested that safety training would be useful for the whole family. I was apologetic about causing concern to them.

The plus side is that she might investigate this field for herself. The minus side was that they could have just called the cops and let me explain the legality to them. In TN, that wouldn't have been a big deal, fortunately.

 

[MNCCW]

The plus side is that she might investigate this field for herself. The minus side was that they could have just called the cops and let me explain the legality to them. In TN, that wouldn't have been a big deal, fortunately.

Another plus side is that the cashiers(or other people) may notice you interacting with her and have realized that a gun doesn't mean that they are in direct danger.

 

[Kharn]

My Aunt and Uncle open-carry in Tuscon, Arizona, when servicing their businesses (self-serve laundromats and carwashes). They feel its better to deter the crime than to have an ace-in-the-hole when a crime occurs.

They've definitely seen results, my Aunt has been approached several times only to have the person immediately egress the area when she turned toward them such that they could see the pistol on her hip.

Kharn

 

[JohnBT]

Years ago, the sight of an automobile would have horses breaking their tie-ropes and bolting away in panic.

Nowadays, they ignore them.

I wonder why?

____________________________________________________________

Cuz the dumb ones that bolted ran out in traffic and got run over? The less excitabile ones survived.

I'm still not going to carry an exposed gun in downtown Richmond. Or gold jewelry. Or a bunch of C-notes hanging from my belt. Why not just wear a sign that says "Look, I have something valuable here. Please hit me in the head from behind and take it."?

John

 

[44Brent]

Is Open Carry Right for Illinois? My experiences in WY, SD, and MN

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=118&st=0&#entry350

It may be surprising to some people that 33 states allow open carry with or without a license. While the majority of these states, such as Wisconsin, Missouri, and Kentucky allow open carry with no license required, other states such as Iowa and Indiana issue licenses that do not distinguish between concealed and open carry.

Manufacturers have gone to great extremes to design devices that can successfully conceal a handgun. However, in my own experience I have found it difficult and uncomfortable trying to conceal a full size handgun such as a .45 caliber 1911. In addition, a handgun in a side holster is much more easily and quickly retrieved in a critical moment when it is needed the most.

I recently decided to try open carry while on vacation this summer in several Midwestern and Western states. I checked www.packing.org and Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States to determine which states on my itinerary allowed open carry. According to those two sources, South Dakota and Wyoming allow open carry with no license required. Minnesota allowed me to carry openly with my Utah license. In all three states I openly carried a Springfield 5" tactical XD 40 pistol in a Don Hume holster with a thumb-break snap. I carried in travel information centers, rest stops, gas stations, motels, grocery stores, retail stores, and a bank. Although I was somewhat apprehensive in the beginning that I would start a stampede of panicked people, I discovered that most people didn't seem to care, or even notice that I was carrying a gun in a side holster. Other than one instance in which a woman asked if I was a law enforcement officer, no one complained.

HB2821 and SB3132 are identical bills in the Illinois legislature that would establish statewide uniform standards for the issuance of permits to carry concealed firearms. These bills make no provision for open carry, and are currently assigned to the rules committee. However, it is likely that they will be introduced again in the next legislative session. Since this is the only bill currently introduced into the Illinois legislature that establishes a right-to-carry, an amendment to this bill is the best means of decriminalizing open carry.

Contact information for the sponsors of these bills.

Representative Art Tenhouse (Deputy Republican Leader): 217-782-8096
Representative Mike Bost (Assistant Republican Leader): 217-782-0387
Senator John O. Jones: 217-782-0471
Todd Vandermyde (NRA lobbyist): [email protected]

 

[strambo]

The visible presence of a gun has not been proven to be a deterrent, or not. Plenty of LEOs are assaulted, and their attackers must know they are armed.

-Sendec

Not an apples to apples comparison. LEO's have a duty to approach, confront and arrest scumbags and encounter them on every shift. How many more officer assaults would there be if officers carried concealed? I bet more than now. Criminals don't choose to mug police officers...the cops come to them.

A citizen can retreat (and has a duty to do so) when faced with a confrontation and doesn't try to arrest violent suspects. We cannot ever know how many criminals choose not to assault a citizen open carrying, but I bet its less than how often they choose to assault visibly un-armed victims.

We need to get 1000 volunteers in DC to carry open for one year and concealed, or no carry for a year and compare victimization rates. I know which group I'd bet on...I still aggree that concealed is best though for other reasons.

 

[JohnKSa]

my Aunt has been approached several times only to have the person immediately egress the area when she turned toward them such that they could see the pistol on her hip.

I know people who would turn and leave in a situation like that simply because of the presence of the gun--not because they had anything illegal in mind.

 

[Feanaro]

Most of the anti-open carry comments have been about personal safety, criminals making a target of them and so on. These are valid complaints against open carry in general and your safety is your business. But this is a political movement. There is a fear, a growing one it seems, of firearms in general. Open carrying is a way to dispell that. Act normal, be polite and maybe we can convince some people that we aren't all slack-jawed, drooling, beer bellied white men that burn crosses on our off days, while planning to overthrow the government. It might be a bad move tactically but if we hide away from the public, for fear of getting in a little trouble, they myths and preconceptions will remain. Our numbers will dwindle and we will lose.

 

[Atticus]

"Let sleeping dogs lay"....."out of sight out of mind"..."walk softly and carry a big (or small yet powerfull) stick" ...yadda...yadda...yadda. I'm fine with open carry in some situations but I don't think it is a good political tool. It was useful as a protest in Ohio to get the CC law passed...but I think it might have the opposite reaction if carried to the extreme now. Unfortunately for the politicos and state troopers in Ohio...this open carry in the car BS (Ohio) should help us to get a sensible carry- in- the -car law passed soon.

Look at the minority rights comparison- who do you listen to and respect - black people who appear to be normal, polite and sincere in their quest for equality.... or the likes of Al Sharpten and Louis Farakhan? The good thing is that their voices are heard - but the bad thing is that their voices are heard.

If we had minimal rights, then I'd agree - but denying me a flashhider, bayo lug, etc,. and making me pay more for mags is annoying, but not enough to make me burn city hall. I'll carry open in the country - and in my damn car for now- but not at the mall. I just don't see any reason to do that.

 

[Standing Wolf]

No offense to our biking friends out there, I have a friend with a Harley myself.

Hey, that's nuthin'! I had a Negro friend in college.

 

[KadicDeshi]

Hey, 44Brent ...

You may want to be careful of open carrying even in states that allow it. I don't know about the laws in the states you visited or even if you checked into them thoroughly enough to avoid the problem but I thought I'd give you a heads-up in case you wanted to open carry again.

In Arkansas, open carry is totally legal - with the exception of cities, towns, etc. that have ordinances against open carry. Most of the cities of any notable size (population>1000) and even a few with fewer people than that have ordinances that prohibit the open carrying of firearms within the city limits.

A brief story: My father, when he was in his mid-twenties (Guess that makes it about 1970 or so.) was going on a fishing trip. He always carried his H&R 999 .22lr revolver with him loaded with ratshot in case he ran into snakes. Well, this particular day, he forgot to get any .22 shot shells and went into one of the local hardware stores to buy some. Unfortunately, the truck he always went off-road with was a beat-up, old clunker that didn't have functioning door locks. So, he straps the .22 on his hip and walks in and buys a couple of boxes. He told me that at the time he noticed that the clerk was acting kind of nervous but he didn't think much of it and went on his way. Two days later, there's a big to do in the local paper 'reminding' everyone that it is illegal to openly carry a firearm within the city limits per city ordinance #blah-blah-blah.

That being said, I personally think that open carry would be fine and dandy. There's just the little problem of hotheads who will strap on a piece and head out thinking they're Billy the Kid or Jesse James. I agree with Zedicus, if done properly and legally (that would get a rise out of some of my more 2A zealous friends) I believe that it would be beneficial to the gunowning community's image in the long run. Unfortunately, you just can't count on everyone seeing things the same way. And it would only take a few bad apples to spoil it for everyone else. Take, for instance, the bad rap that machine guns have gotten due to criminals using them in assaults on LEOs and in commiting mass homicides.

But, hey, that's just my opinion. And to borrow WildmyheroAlaska's sig, "Remember, my opinion is just as irrelevant as your's." Hope I quoted that correctly.

Barrett

 

[44Brent]

KadicDeshi, I certainly did check the laws as I stated in my previous posting. According to Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States, open carry in Arkansas is "prohihbited under most circumstances (certain affirmative defenses exist)".

Arkansas' law is quite different than that in Minnesota, South Dakota, and Wyoming.

 

[KadicDeshi]

Ah, sorry, I think that may have come out wrong. It was not my intention to make it sound like I thought you hadn't put any research into it and I certainly didn't mean to make it sound condescending. Sorry if I came off that way.

I saw that you had done research into the subject, I was just trying to make certain that you had seen such items as the local ordinances that may prohibit open carry. I try to make certain others know about problems that I have run into whenever I can. At one time, I thought it was entirely legal to carry anywhere so long as it wasn't concealed without a license.

And you are correct, most open carry is illegal within city limits, as I stated and also in public parks. Out in the country and on private property with permission, it's not any problem in my experience.

Sorry again, sometimes what I type doesn't come out the way I want it to when I'm thinking it out.

Barrett

 

[techmike]

Stop...my side hurts

No offense to our biking friends out there, I have a friend with a Harley myself.

Hey, that's nuthin'! I had a Negro friend in college.

Standingwolf...great Minds think alike. That excact same phrase came to mind. I don't open carry on my bike for exactly the same reason many of us don't open carry elswhere. A lot of people are frightened my bikers as it is, I see no need to fan the flames.

Prejudice against bikers is much the same as prejudice against gun owners. A few bad apples give us all a bad name.

back on topic....I do open carry once in a great while...usually on the way to or from the range or the woods. Nobody really seems to notice or care. Life in KY.

 

[sturmruger]

I think open carry is a great idea. The problem is someday I would like to apply for a some NFA type stuff. By pissing off the police chief I will lessen my chance of him signing my paperwork. It just isn't worth it here. If the WCCA ever organizes some type of open carry walk I will be all over that.