Two tier Carry Permit System

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I think you guys missed my original point:

The proposed suggestion was for states that would have no possible chance of having "open carry" laws. Perhaps an "incremental" approach would get us closer to the ideal.

In no way was I suggesting a "two-tier" system for states that have even a half way chance of getting open carry laws passed.

Again...for me... it should be evident that the "right to bear arms" is a God-given right.
Of course, that includes "open carry" of arms.
 
Remind me, which part of the Constitution lists the right not to feel uncomfortable?

That would be the "Clinging Tightly to Mommy's Skirts Clause" of the Preamble. Perhaps you missed it.

Let me correct you... it's not "SHOULD..." it's "IS."

Not if you've read Scalia's opinion in the Heller decision. SCOTUS has clearly stated that there are legitimate restrictions on the 2A. They just haven't had the cojones to establish a level of judicial scrutiny, yet.

Count me firmly in the single tiered carry camp- You own a gun; you carry it however you damn well please.
 
+1 to the above

And Zoom read my whole post, I agree with you, people perception of carry should have nothing to do with it.
 
AZ isn't done yet either ... there are many legislative bills on the docket that will make things even better here for the good guys. AZ, VT and AK might be the holy grail for gun ownership but each still has a ways to go ... they are just further along the path than most states. There is always another layer of the legislative onion that needs to be pulled back. The government has piled on so many layers of gun restrictions that it will take years to undo what they have done.

Good luck in whichever state you live.
 
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Why????? Calling the police on someone when you have no legitimate reason to believe he's committing or about to commit a crime is just plain pathetic and stupid. It's what the anti's do here in CA when people open carry anunloaded gun....merely for carrying the gun, they don't have any reason to believe a crime is being committed. Who are you to decide what he should and shouldn't be able to carry for self defense? Why bring the law into a situation where you're imposing your standards on what constitutes legit self defense tools when there's no reason to?
As for "an over-the-top Mall Ninja"......*** does he need a "serious talking-to" about, doing something that you don't approve of?

In my case (and I speaking strictly for myself), the mere carrying of the magazines wouldn't make me whip out the cell phone. And I am not talking about a person who is going about his business openly carrying a holstered pistol and a couple of magazines, high capacity or not, in a carrier. If we had open carry, that would be me. As I mentioned earlier, I have 20-round magazines for my Beretta PX4, so I could easily be carrying 61 rounds of 9 mm.

Heck, if someone wants to walk down the street with a fancy, tooled-leather two-gun rig, I might ask him to stop for a moment so I could admire it but that would be it.

Outside of that, a call would depend on the carrier's demeanor and actions. Lurking? Nervous? In the case of the Mall Ninja, acting like a total jerk? Believe it or not, there is a difference between open carrying for self-defense and dripping with ordnance.

And, yeah, I don't approve of total jerks who give all of us a bad name by going over the top. They're more ammo for the anti-gun crowd who already see all of us that way. Leave the fully stocked Molle vest at home.

But I wouldn't call the police if I didn't have some reason beyond the mere presence of a firearm and spare ammunition. Beyond not wanting to disturb the peace of a fellow traveler, it would be a waste of the cop's time and mine.

In California, some district attorneys and law enforcement agencies have adopted a policy of harassing lawful open carriers with repeated stops and over-aggressive approaches. I certainly haven't forgotten that one cop who "would prone them out" while covering the law-abiding open-carrier with an M16. BTW: He was later "disciplined" but he should have been relieved of his badge, job and pension as an example to others. It must give an anti a frisson of delight to be able to bring about the public humiliation of a person with whom they disagree.

But Californians are masters of their own fate. A look at the political leanings of California counties shows relatively small pockets of ultra-liberalism in a sea of moderate-to-conservative with significant areas of ultra-conservative. This indicates to me Californians are perfectly capable of electing representatives that will not only curtail the harassment but repeal the 1967 act that stripped Californians of their right to open carry loaded handguns. That law, signed by Ronald Reagan, was the direct result of an "invasion" of the state capitol by radicals exercising their right (at the time) to open carry loaded weapons into the capitol. In other words, the legislators felt threatened and, instead of making the capitol a no-carry zone, passed a law prohibiting the carrying of a loaded weapon.

I have been somewhat surprised, and rather disappointed, that lawsuits haven't been filed against either the state of California or the more hostile agencies for official oppression.

Nevertheless, the abuse of police power in one state does not mean one should not be watchful in another. I believe we call it "situational awareness."
 
Criminal laws should regulate criminals - not law-abiding citizens
:what::confused::eek:

MAN, WHAT A CONCEPT! maybe our GOVERNMENT should READ this post!

i have never been able to understand why the overwhelming majority of law abiding citizens had to pay for what our criminal element does. this applies to all aspects of our lives, not just the firearm area. in other countries, they have public punishment, that is supposed to do two things. 1) it adds humiliation to the punishment, and 2) it shows the rest of their society what to expect if they are dumb enough to follow in the guilty persons footsteps. :cuss::banghead::fire:
 
In my case (and I speaking strictly for myself), the mere carrying of the magazines wouldn't make me whip out the cell phone. And I am not talking about a person who is going about his business openly carrying a holstered pistol and a couple of magazines, high capacity or not, in a carrier. If we had open carry, that would be me. As I mentioned earlier, I have 20-round magazines for my Beretta PX4, so I could easily be carrying 61 rounds of 9 mm.

Heck, if someone wants to walk down the street with a fancy, tooled-leather two-gun rig, I might ask him to stop for a moment so I could admire it but that would be it.

Outside of that, a call would depend on the carrier's demeanor and actions. Lurking? Nervous? In the case of the Mall Ninja, acting like a total jerk? Believe it or not, there is a difference between open carrying for self-defense and dripping with ordnance.

And, yeah, I don't approve of total jerks who give all of us a bad name by going over the top. They're more ammo for the anti-gun crowd who already see all of us that way. Leave the fully stocked Molle vest at home.

But I wouldn't call the police if I didn't have some reason beyond the mere presence of a firearm and spare ammunition. Beyond not wanting to disturb the peace of a fellow traveler, it would be a waste of the cop's time and mine.

In California, some district attorneys and law enforcement agencies have adopted a policy of harassing lawful open carriers with repeated stops and over-aggressive approaches. I certainly haven't forgotten that one cop who "would prone them out" while covering the law-abiding open-carrier with an M16. BTW: He was later "disciplined" but he should have been relieved of his badge, job and pension as an example to others. It must give an anti a frisson of delight to be able to bring about the public humiliation of a person with whom they disagree.

But Californians are masters of their own fate. A look at the political leanings of California counties shows relatively small pockets of ultra-liberalism in a sea of moderate-to-conservative with significant areas of ultra-conservative. This indicates to me Californians are perfectly capable of electing representatives that will not only curtail the harassment but repeal the 1967 act that stripped Californians of their right to open carry loaded handguns. That law, signed by Ronald Reagan, was the direct result of an "invasion" of the state capitol by radicals exercising their right (at the time) to open carry loaded weapons into the capitol. In other words, the legislators felt threatened and, instead of making the capitol a no-carry zone, passed a law prohibiting the carrying of a loaded weapon.

I have been somewhat surprised, and rather disappointed, that lawsuits haven't been filed against either the state of California or the more hostile agencies for official oppression.

Nevertheless, the abuse of police power in one state does not mean one should not be watchful in another. I believe we call it "situational awareness."


In that case, I agree with you. In your other post, it sounded like you'd call the police simply because of the method of carry and/or what he's carrying. I misunderstood that. There definitely needs to be a legitimate reason for calling the police.

As far as the Mall Ninja type goes, if it's a polite suggestion that he doesn't wear that type of gear, I'd be fine with that as long you didn't push the issue with him. I think there's a fine line between being so careful to not offend anybody and being bold in the exercise of our rights. For example, I've heard many people say that if you're going to open carry that you should dress semi casually (or at least not work clothes) so people won't get offended by a guy wearing a gun and dirty working clothes. That's not acceptance of the practice of a right...it's acceptance of a certain group's exercise of that right. Bottem line is that both talking to someone about not wearing Mall Ninja gear and wearing whatever gear you want needs to be done with tact and in a manner that doesn't cause damage to our cause.

And I agree with you about California. I live in California and I hate only having the options of openly carrying an unloaded gun (one reason I don't like Regan so much), or carrying an unloaded gun in a locked case. People- at least where I live in socal- are slowly becoming more accustomed to the idea of openly displayed firearms in public.

Every once in while conservative candidates will run for office and it'll actually a close race. A big problem is apathey...many conservative voters have the mentality that their one vote won't make a difference since there's so many libs, so they don't vote.

There are actually quite a few lawsuits going on against the state and county governments, mainly due to the Calguns Foundation. Slowly but surely more counties are becoming shall issue. There are, however, currently no lawsuits against the state of California to change the "may issue" laws..yet.
 
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