The myth on not saving when hand loading 9mm ammo.

[jmorris]

NEW THREAD—

Topic: What is or isn’t productive?

Reading a book? But for the second time?

Watching a movie? But on Hallmark channel?

Buying 100 rounds? Or loading 100 rounds?

Unloading 100 rounds?

BTW, you can’t sit and NOT think. You may think you’re not thinking but that’s thinking.

In addition to time, to be accurate your reloading costs have to include costs of all equipment. Unless it’s hobby equipment then its cost free.

What is “productive”, is in the eyes of the beholder or beer holder…

At what point is my equipment amortized or do I have to keep charging myself for the same equipment over and over? Pretty sure that SD my Brother and I went in 50/50 on 39 years ago ($65 each) was paid for by the ‘90’s.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

NEW THREAD—

Topic: What is or isn’t productive?

Reading a book? But for the second time?

Watching a movie? But on Hallmark channel?

Buying 100 rounds? Or loading 100 rounds?

Unloading 100 rounds?

BTW, you can’t sit and NOT think. You may think you’re not thinking but that’s thinking.

In addition to time, to be accurate your reloading costs have to include costs of all equipment. Unless it’s hobby equipment then its cost free.

First you have to define cost. Then define value. The definition of work is defined by physics (Newtonian - Quantum Physics is not overly concerned about the subject). Finally, determine the difference between cost and value with respect to work.

Has everyone reading this ever heard the saying, “If you’re doing something you love, you’ll never work a day in your life”?

When work goes to zero, the final product of the equation also goes to zero.

QED.

 

[CQB45ACP]

What is “productive”, is in the eyes of the beholder or beer holder…

At what point is my equipment amortized or do I have to keep charging myself for the same equipment over and over?

Yes eye of beholder BUT that’s not the original proposition of this thread. Nor was it value nor worth.

It was about savings and for that one needs empirical, real data with which to compare. The better the data, the better the result.

And yes amortization is the correct answer.

 

[CQB45ACP]

First you have to define cost. Then define value. The definition of work is defined by physics (Newtonian - Quantum Physics is not overly concerned about the subject). Finally, determine the difference between cost and value with respect to work.

Has everyone reading this ever heard the saying, “If you’re doing something you love, you’ll never work a day in your life”?

When work goes to zero, the final product of the equation also goes to zero.

QED.

You don’t have to do any of that to answer whether you can save money by doing one thing vs another thing.

 

[Demi-human]

Well, my popcorn is gone.

First, I can’t believe I read the whole thing.
It’s not like any way of thought will be swayed here.(Even with empirical evidence!)

Second, a very warm thank you to @Walkalong ! Sometimes we need some frivolity! And thanks to We. You know, for keepin’ it civil.

The irony of spending time online, to tell others what is, or not, a waste of time, is not lost on me. (Took 64 posts, but Frogfurr got it first!)

A better bunch of shooters to hang out on a soggy Sunday and load the bull with, I don’t think I’ll find.

I do think this horse has been lethally whipped though…

 

[higgite]

What is “productive”, is in the eyes of the beholder or beer holder…

In the eyes of this beer holder:

non-productive = Debating the cost of one's time to reload 9mm

productive = Reloading 9mm

entertaining = This thread.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You don’t have to do any of that to answer whether you can save money by doing one thing vs another thing.

I disagree. Money is nothing more than a commodity for open trading. Its value is measured by what it can be traded for. If a thing has no monetary value - but it does have intrinsic value - then it still has value but can’t be bought or sold.

I say again - it’s fairly easy to make money reloading 9mm. If you love the process. The money spent on commodities is meaningless compared to the intrinsic value of the craft and art of the process. No one can pay me enough money not to engage in that process. Therefore, money is made.

 

[ballman6711]

I think some of you have touched on the real value of reloading.

You can make what you want, when you want it, assuming you have the components.
You aren't dependent on finding it in the store, which was a problem these past few years.
You can have your zen time to just get away from the real world and real problems for awhile.
You can make better ammo, tailored to your gun, than you can buy.

Saving money per round is just a bonus. I can make 480 Ruger for less than 1/4 of "inexpensive" store bought ammo. Still not cheap at almost $8 for twenty rounds, but certainly cheaper. Making .223 or 9mm may be harder to justify but I was able to shoot it when I wanted to these past few years, whether it was available on a shelf or not. So that's another benefit.

I don't make money reloading, and I don't count my time since I would just be doing something else around the house anyway, but I do enjoy it and find it relaxing. I don't want to do it everyday, just now and then.

My equipment has paid for itself in savings per round at this point in time, and if I choose to reload a new caliber I only have to make/save enough to pay for the dies and shell holder.

chris

 

[higgite]

Eureka! I’ve done the research (aka.. web searches) and found the definitive answer to the age old debate on the cost of reloading vs buying factory ammo. This should settle it once and for all. No further need for discussion. You’re welcome.

Cost Comparison Factory Ammo vs. Reloaded Ammo- Is It Cheaper to Buy Ammunition or Load Your Own?

www.youtube.com

P.S. Anyone who can watch the whole video and not use fast forward will win an all expense paid 911 call to their local psych ward, if their head doesn't explode first.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Him: Honey, I going to start reloading instead of buying ammunition.

Her: Really, how much will that cost?

Him: Well that’s the great thing. I’ll actually save money.

Her: Why haven’t you done this before if you can save money? When are you going to start?

Him: Well, first I have to get some equipment—a press, some dies, and some projectiles, powder, primers, brass cases. Just some basics.

Her: That sounds expensive.

Him: No, not at all, I’ll be saving money.

Him again: Oh, one more thing, can you mow the lawn, I won’t have time.

 

[higgite]

Him: Honey, I going to start reloading instead of buying ammunition.

Her: Really, how much will that cost?

Him: Well that’s the great thing. I’ll actually save money.

Her: Why haven’t you done this before if you can save money? When are you going to start?

Him: Well, first I have to get some equipment—a press, some dies, and some projectiles, powder, primers, brass cases. Just some basics.

Her: That sounds expensive.

Him: No, not at all, I’ll be saving money.

Him again: Oh, one more thing, can you mow the lawn, I won’t have time.

I’m pretty sure his alimony payments will eat up any savings he might see from reloading.

 

[BreechFace]

This topic comes up often and there are ALWAYS a few of the same argument.

It’s nonsense I can definitely save money on reloading 9mm over factory offerings. I have primers handed down from my great-grandfather they cost $0.002 / primer. For brass I pull up my car roll down the window next to shooters and their guns eject the spent casings right into my case tumbler filled with my own crushed walnuts collected from my walnut tree. What was nice about my great-grandfather he passed down a life long amount of pistol ammo powder (Titewad powder if you were wondering) and only paid $0.01 / loaded round for the powder. For bullets I just put a bucket under the steel targets and catch all the free spalling off the targets, I then use a free cast iron Dutch oven I found at the dump to melt the lead scraps over a fire. The wood for the fire I collect from construction sites on the way home from work after the framer gets done with his cutoffs. I horse traded a second cast iron Dutch oven I found at the dump to my friend for a 124gr SWC bullet mold he had laying around. My press and dies were a gift from my father who stopped reloading 5 years ago.

So my reloaded cost per round on 9mm is:

Primer: $0.002
Powder: $0.01
Gas to collect firewood and dump collections amortized over 10,000 rounds so far: $0.01

So I can reload 9mm for $0.022 / round.

But I do have to pay someone to mow my lawn as I’m usually reloading during the time I would do that.


Don’t get too worked up, just playing here.

 

[BreechFace]

The next comment comes in like this:

Well I may have trouble buying current component prices and staying cheaper than 9mm range ammo. But I can save half the cost when loading 9mm defensive rounds.

Or I can save 5x the cost loading my 6.5 superboomer over factory rounds

Or my loaded rounds are so good they will shoot a 9mm into a .232” MOA group

Well no kidding…

 

[BreechFace]

I’m all for reloading, including 9mm but I don’t kid myself. When reloading 9mm range ammo is close to the prices of buying 9mm range ammo, I’ll take that opportunity to save my components (to a certain extent) and get some fresh brass and ammo to replenish.

When the situation is like above I use my limited time resources to load self-defense ammo, specialized hunting, target, subsonic and varmint cartridges.

This just makes good sense in the use of my time. Purchase range ammo in 9mm and 556 are perfectly adequate to keep my training up on paper and steel targets.

This also preserves my components for 9mm and 556 when one cannot buy ammo or components for them, which happens all too often these days.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Day two of family budget meeting—

Her: Honey I’ve been thinking more about your reloading to save money and have some questions.

First, my arthritis is pretty bad these days and following the loss of my right leg, I just don’t think I can mow the lawn. Can’t you continue to do it?

Him: Well my time’s way too valuable these days so we’ll just have to hire the kid down the street.

Her: But doesn’t that mean this reloading thing is getting more expensive after all?

Him: No, no, you poor dear. Let me explain it in terms you’ll understand. This is a hobby and you just can’t apply the same financial terms to hobbies. I’m sure you get it.

After all you wouldn’t want me to try to figure the costs of your hobbies, cooking and doing laundry, would you?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Him: Honey, I going to start reloading instead of buying ammunition.

Her: Really, how much will that cost?

Him: Well that’s the great thing. I’ll actually save money.

Her: Why haven’t you done this before if you can save money? When are you going to start?

Him: Well, first I have to get some equipment—a press, some dies, and some projectiles, powder, primers, brass cases. Just some basics.

Her: That sounds expensive.

Him: No, not at all, I’ll be saving money.

Him again: Oh, one more thing, can you mow the lawn, I won’t have time.

You skipped the part of the conversation where she says, “I hate to say I told you so but I’ve been saying that about shoe sales for decades. You do your little bullet things. I’m going shopping for some new shoes. Oh, and little Ronnie down the block asked if he could mow our lawn. He wants $20 or something. I said it was fine. Ta!”

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I’m all for reloading, including 9mm but I don’t kid myself. When reloading 9mm range ammo is close to the prices of buying 9mm range ammo, I’ll take that opportunity to save my components (to a certain extent) and get some fresh brass and ammo to replenish.

When the situation is like above I use my limited time resources to load self-defense ammo, specialized hunting, target, subsonic and varmint cartridges.

This just makes good sense in the use of my time. Purchase range ammo in 9mm and 556 are perfectly adequate to keep my training up on paper and steel targets.

This also preserves my components for 9mm and 556 when one cannot buy ammo or components for them, which happens all too often these days.

“Range ammo.”
Just buy blanks. Same boom and smoke. About as accurate, too.
I don’t load a 9mm using “range ammo” components. It’s like a drive through burger vs. prime rib.

 

[CQB45ACP]

You skipped the part of the conversation where she says, “I hate to say I told you so but I’ve been saying that about shoe sales for decades. You do your little bullet things. I’m going shopping for some new shoes. Oh, and little Ronnie down the block asked if he could mow our lawn. He wants $20 or something. I said it was fine. Ta!”

$20?? Oh, just front yard.

After we got kids our clothing budgets shifted dramatically for the next 20 years. Including her shoe thing and my neck tie thing. And I couldn’t have dreamt of reloading until the boys graduated college.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Day two of family budget meeting—

Her: Honey I’ve been thinking more about your reloading to save money and have some questions.

First, my arthritis is pretty bad these days and following the loss of my right leg, I just don’t think I can mow the lawn. Can’t you continue to do it?

Him: Well my time’s way too valuable these days so we’ll just have to hire the kid down the street.

Her: But doesn’t that mean this reloading thing is getting more expensive after all?

Him: No, no, you poor dear. Let me explain it in terms you’ll understand. This is a hobby and you just can’t apply the same financial terms to hobbies. I’m sure you get it.

After all you wouldn’t want me to try to figure the costs of your hobbies, cooking and doing laundry, would you?

And that’s when the fight started.

So basically, you are saying everyone who disagrees with your position is an insensitive bass turd with a disabled wife who he treats like a slave?

Nice.

See that massive mountain range ahead? The one you can’t see the peaks? That’s the moral high ground you now need to reattain. After a few weeks I’ll unblock you and see how you’re progressing.

Blanket insults are low road, not high road.

 

[CQB45ACP]

And that’s when the fight started.

So basically, you are saying everyone who disagrees with your position is an insensitive bass turd with a disabled wife who he treats like a slave?

Nice.

See that massive mountain range ahead? The one you can’t see the peaks? That’s the moral high ground you now need to reattain. After a few weeks I’ll unblock you and see how you’re progressing.

Blanket insults are low road, not high road.

Oh good grief. That’s absurd.

Edit: C’mon it was Babylon Bee worthy! Don’t block me! You’ll miss far too much.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Depending on what you load you can save on loading 9mm.

This is the OP’s first line and defining statement. “Depending on what you load…”
Compare the cost of top-shelf defense and hunting ammo with the cost of handloading and handloading comes out cheaper every time. Most of that ammo is sold in boxes of 20 and runs better than a buck a shot.

 

[CQB45ACP]

This is the OP’s first line and defining statement. “Depending on what you load…”
Compare the cost of top-shelf defense and hunting ammo with the cost of handloading and handloading comes out cheaper every time. Most of that ammo is sold in boxes of 20 and runs better than a buck a shot.

As always inciteful. AndI mean it.

 

[PapaG]

My reloading components for handgun rounds and some rifle ones were bought at a time that does allow me to beat factory loads. Most of what I load will equal or exceed factory rounds for my purposes. I still have a fair amount of $5-10/lb powder, $35/1000 primers as well as a bunch of lead, lube, and gas checks. Five lube sizers bought for pennies on the dollar save me setup time.
Considering dad and I started with a TruLine Jr, a two cavity 357446 mould and a number 45 lube sized in 1955, what I have now is immense. Pity my wife and kids.

 

[Kaldor]

Hmm, let's try this one...we'll go with the one everyone says it is not economical to make, 9mm.
Labor - $0. Why? If I want to make money, I'll go work overtime. This is a hobby.
Brass - $0. A buddy works on local ranges and brings me bucketloads of brass every so often. Still working on the last one from two years ago.
Bullet - wait for it - not QUITE zero, but close, the cost of the electricity for the lead pot and the powder coating oven. Maybe $.25 per thousand? Wild arsed guess, of course.
Primers - don't move, but....$0. Why? My wife bought me a thousand and a buddy bought me three thousand recently - they really like going out shooting with my handloads. Now if we go with the ones I did buy, that's about $8 per hundred, pretty stiff, so we'll call it $.08 per round.
Powder - ya got me. Home made black powder does NOT work in 9mm, and my pistols have a hankerin' for Accurate Number 2. Last time I bought a pound it was $35, roughly, IIRC. So, 7000 grains per pound, 3.6 grains per load, say, $.018, or more reasonable 2 cents per round.
That comes up to...10 cents a round. IF we use my primers. $5 per 50. I'm good with that, especially since I really don't care what I spend on my hobby.
Speaking of black powder, I am thinking of shooting more of that, especially since I figured out how to make my own. Talk about a cheap shooting hobby, especially if you use a flintlock!

I was taking a worst case scenario. I consider my time to be free when I reload, because it feeds my shooting hobby.
I just consider the cost of bullet, primer and powder.
But you really are taking it to the extreme

 

[Reeferman]

How much do you people pay yourselves to go to a movie? How much do you pay yourselves for taking care of your kids?
I don't know how you can afford to cook your own meals at charging yourself $100.00/hr. My God, you'd starve to death. You'd have to eat at a restaurant every night.

How do you afford to pay yourself to shoot. You better quit before you go broke.

I don't understand this paying yourself thing. Like someone else said, unless your reloading is taking you away from working for money, your time has no value. It's the time you have to do what you want, when you want. If you don't want to reload, then don't, but I must ask, why are you posting here if you don't,

Do you pay yourself to take a shower, eat your meals, go shopping, How much do you pay yourself an hour for sleeping?

And I don't want to hear about people that don't have time to relaod, I work 12 hr days and I still find the time to do it. When I do find the time I make it count.

I don't figure how much money is lost because of what my time is worth. I figure how much I saved because of money I don't have to pay out.
That means I'm working for myself and my pay is the $4.00 a box for every box of 9mm I don't have to buy.

My Hornady press will load 600/hr. So in an hour's time I'm loading 12 boxes of ammo at a savings of $4.00/box = $48.00/hr I'm making by loading my own 9mm's.


At 2 boxed a week, I'm paying myself $416.00 a year for a very part time job of loading the 9mm. Add .357mag, 327FM, 243 Win, 308 Win, 30-06 Spring, 8mm Mauser and whatever else I load for, my part time wage keeps going up higher and higher.

I can't afford not to reload.

And, I control the quality and the recipe, so I get what I want when I want it, vs having to suffer with what an ammo company tells me I am going to shoot, or I don't shoot at all.

Best one yet.