American_Fusilier
Member
Looks cool. But I already have a Ruger pc carbine, and I definitely don't need 2 PCCs.
The New S&W “Response” 9mm carbine
- Thread starter Pat Riot
- Start date
Mick Boon
member
As the others said, there's matches for them now. I shoot mine in IDPA PCC matches and it makes a great trainer for my other ARs. It doesn't screw up my AR500 tgts at CQB distances, and has recoil closer to a standard 5.56 (actually more due to the blowback). I ran a .22LR AR15 for a while, but the realism just wasn't there. It's cheap to shoot as I just run my regular 9mm reloads though it, literally no screwing with brass prep like I have to do with my 3Gun .223 ammo.
For running drills it's a great tool and always a crowd pleaser when folks come out.
Mine's (Colt AR6951) set up just like my HD AR15 (Colt LE6920):
When I head out back to run drills or just plink it's what I grab about 90% of the time.
That's my point exactly, it's a toy rather than a real rifle.
Chuck R.
Member
Kinda narrow minded, and not really worthy of any counter-point.
Cheaper to shoot, loads of fun, everyone loves shooting my 9MM AR
someguy2800
Member
Its half the cost to buy ammo, and half the cost to reload it as well, and takes half as much time to hand load it because you don't have to trim cases or refill the case and powder feeder as often. There is nothing negligible about it.
md7
Member
Seen a few posts about it being blowback. I don’t know much about why this is or isn’t desirable.
Why the negative thoughts on blowback?
Serous question… I don’t know much about it
Why the negative thoughts on blowback?
Serous question… I don’t know much about it
Mick Boon
member
If you are happy with a 9mm carbine then I'm very happy for you.
I would personally chose a 22 rimfire rifle over a 9mm rifle any day. A 22 is consistently accurate at distances of 100 yards and over, and makes a 9mm look like a blind man is shooting it.
9mm makes for a good short distance bullet sprayer, not a lot else.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Most folks with firearms don't reload. Most folks live in the cities. Many city folks only go to indoor shooting ranges due to urban sprawl pushing outdoor ranges further away. Many indoor shooting ranges don't allow firing rifle cartridges. 9mm is sufficient for practice, games, and home defense no matter what length of barrel it comes out of.
I don't pick .22 LR for home defense, and I'm no longer a shotgun guy (due to indoor ranges), so a 9mm PCC works for me. - chicharrones, victim of urban sprawl
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OP
OP
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Your opinion. Definitely not mine. I like my PC Carbine and I like my SFAR in .308. I have no need of or use for a .223/5.56 AR.
I don’t have a problem with my PC Carbine, but I do know a lot of people who don’t care for for blowback guns because they’ve had reliability issues. If a load isn’t powerful enough the gun won’t cycle and reliability goes downhill with shot residue and crud after a while. In my opinion they do require more maintenance.
Jim Watson
Member
The leading complaint against a blowback carbine is that the heavy bolt running back and forth gives a harder recoil than the gas operated rifle. As I said, there are delayed blowbacks available, at a price.
I think one cause of lower reliability is the competitor using the lightest load allowable.
I think one cause of lower reliability is the competitor using the lightest load allowable.
Mick Boon
member
M1 Carbines make mush better rifles than any blow back 9mm.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
The felt recoil really isn't bad. I figure the recoil argument makes the most sense for fast shooters wanting less muzzle bounce.
Suppressor users also come to mind, excess gasses out of the ejection port or something like that.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
M1 Carbines make mush better rifles than any blow back 9mm.
I can't recall the last time a non-reloader like me could add a box or two of Carbine ammo to my range fee at the local shooting range. Barring an ammo panic, there is always 9mm at the local ranges I go to.
someguy2800
Member
I am very happy with my 9mm, my 22's, and also my rifle cartridge AR's.
I put a scope on my AR9 once to see what kind of accuracy potential was there. It shot about a 3" group at 100 yards. I was just shooting it this morning at 150 yards with the iron sights.
I would definitely agree with you there if not for the cost and availability of brass and ammo, and the 9mm also has the niche of shooting subsonic suppressed.
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Lefty38-55
Member
One other option is that one could then have/use/deploy both a pistol and carbine that took the same magazines. There is an intrinsic benefit to that ...
And with that said, me thinks that none less than the famous SAS has a pretty good track record of taking out bad guys with such a pissy 9mm round, LOL!
someguy2800
Member
Blowback 9mm's have a surprisingly harsh recoil impulse because the bolt needs to be very heavy to slow down the extraction, so you have a very heavy bolt hitting the back of the receiver at a very high speed. You can mitigate this somewhat with hydraulic buffers and very stiff recoil springs, but its an inherent issue. Also when shooting suppressed you get what it called "port pop" because the round is being pushed out of the chamber when there is still quite a bit of pressure in the barrel so they are much louder suppressed than a delayed blowback or gas operated gun and you do get a lot of gas in your face and eyes.
This is where I landed for a 9mm PCC. Its the same lower as the post above but has a Scheel MFG roller delay buffer tube, and I built a seperate upper to shoot suppressed with a 5" faxon barrel. My non suppressed upper has a 10.5" faxon barrel. They are both very very accurate. It is also now a registered SBR. It is waaaay quieter with the 5” barrel and the roller delay system than it was with a 10.5” barrel and blowback with the same suppressor.
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burrhead
Member
I don't see any advantage over my home defense AR. I'll pass.
t
Why do you insist on poo pooing the topic of the thread? Let the folks who like the thought post about it and enjoy.M1 Carbines make mush better rifles than any blow back 9mm.
gotboostvr
Member
9mm suppresses alot better than 5.56, and is a heck of a lot cheaper than 300blk for one.
Crosshair
Member
Why on God's green earth would they copy the poor ergonomics of an AR charging handle?
Polomer frame only makes sense if it gives a weight savings, which it typically doesn't with rifles. Might as well go with an aluminum Ruger.
Polomer frame only makes sense if it gives a weight savings, which it typically doesn't with rifles. Might as well go with an aluminum Ruger.
Because 9mm is cheaper, interchangeable with handguns, and works just as well for practical purposes.
md7
Member
Thanks all, for the input on blowback. Now I know what I didn’t before.
Trey Veston
Member
Great. Another cool firearm I can't buy in WA state.
OP
OP
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Good point. I forgot to mention that above.
On my PC Carbine I installed an MCARBO buffer pad and I put an Odin Works Atlas 9 compensator on the barrel and these two thing reduced felt recoil by about a third, I would guess.
Crosshair
Member
People think "Blowback" = "Increased Felt Recoil".
I disagree. Back in the 2000s, before that belief took hold, new shooters I took out loved my old model PC-9 and how little it kicked.
That current belief is due to two PCCs. The Sub-20000 and Hi-Point. The Sub kicks because it uses a really light bolt with a metal tube stock. The Hi-Point stock flexes slightly upwards and "slaps" your cheek when the bolt hits the rear of the reciever. Increasing perceived Recoil.
Delayed Blowback guns main advantage is lower weight.
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