The Old COnfederacy; and a Conservative Confederacy

[stressed]

I was wondering what people here thought in general of the Confederacy, and if they would prefer they won and current rule under Confederate government. And to make this thread OK on this forum, I will ask what the gun laws may be in this day and age under the CSA had it survived. And if another could be created, it wouldn't be just the South in this day and age. A Confederacy of Conservative Red States would encompass new borders.

One trend I've noticed in the 21st century, is many native Sotherners disowning the Confederacy or disrespecting it, and Northerners and those in the Midwest and far westerns states respecting it. and supporting it and justifying it.

I was born and raised in Florida, as a 10th gen Floridian I have Florida rebel ancestors, although I live in the Midwest now. Many locals here respect the CSA with the utmost passion, and wish they had won or another current similar government could form. This surprised me.

What are your opinions? Thanks.

 

[Nugilum]

We already proved that a confederacy of states doesn't work. That was the first Gov't the USA had set up during the Revolutionary War.

The Second Gov't the US tried was/is the Constitution.

 

[robert garner]

Well every time you see some one mutter about "States Rights" you are hearing an echo of the old Confederacy, and you see what Federalism has wrought.
As to what a Southern win would have developed into,I don't have the mentality to say,though I would hazard a guess and say that God would not have been chased out of our daily life,which couldn't hurt.Being a GGrandson of a Veteran of the 15th Ala (infantry)I haven't turned on my heritage nor would I stand mute should another do so.
As to gun law, since there would have been no need of "Jim Crow" laws I would like to imagine the law would have remained very liberal,and I can't imagine a more Liberal law than one which allows all citizens the right to keep(own) and bear(carry) arms. Could any other law prevent us from degrading into a police state...O wait...we are there aren't we,yea Federalism.
robert

 

[BigBore44]

Will be interesting to see how long this thread lasts. I'm from Oklahoma. Born and raised. I appreciate the souths traditions like proud gun ownership, and being neighborly. But there are certain aspects of the south that I completely disagree with (shouldn't be to hard to figure out the main one).

In regards to the gun ownership laws should the confederates have won, I think it is impossible to know what it would be like. Especially since they didn't win. I think having our gun ownership rights protected federally is better for the longevity of those rights.

Now, before any of you Yankees (lol) out there start yelling thats you're proud gun owners and you always help your neighbors, I wasn't saying that you aren't or don't. I'm simply stating that those are two things the south is known for. Whether you are from Maine, Washington, Arizona or Florida, makes no difference to me. We are all on the same team now. And that's how I prefer it.

 

[45_auto]

I will ask what the gun laws may be in this day and age under the CSA had it survived.

Most likely 2 different sets of gun laws depending on your race. Hard to imagine any government wanting armed slaves. What happens if they have guns and decide they don't want to be slaves anymore, and decide to overthrow your new government? Isn't that kind of the whole premise of the 2nd Amendment?

Many locals here respect the CSA with the utmost passion, and wish they had won or another current similar government could form.

It would be more interesting if you could provide us with info on what percentage of your locals who wish the south had won are black.

I was born and raised in Florida, as a 10th gen Floridian I have Florida rebel ancestors, although I live in the Midwest now.

I was also born and raised in Florida (Tallahassee), but I still live in the south. Many locals here also wish the south had won, but it seems that a common denominator among them is that very, very few of them ever managed to finish high school. Want me to send you a "South will rise again" bumper sticker?

 

[1911Tuner]

If the south had won, we'd be under British rule today.

 

[ACP]

"...God would not have been chased out of our daily life."

God hasn't been chased out of our daily lives. A Christian God has been chased out -- rightfully -- as the face of an American government, which represents a variety of faiths.

To the OP, who knows.

 

[Zoogster]

Considering where slavery has gone in the rest of the world I doubt it would still exist in the south either had the Confederacy won. It certainly would have remained for awhile, but would have disappeared by now.
There would probably also be equal rights by this point. Just look at apartheid South Africa, one of the last holdouts.
Or for an opposite example Brazil, the last nations to abolish slavery in the Western Hemisphere, yet one of the fastest to reach no restrictions and a culture of hardly noticing race.

It is very unlikely that had the South won that slavery would have existed even another 50 years.



The original government of the United States was a Confederacy. The framework of that Confederacy was the ideal of the founders at that point. However they found it was weak because it couldn't force the collection of tax dollars and as such had no guaranteed source of financing. It also had no standing army as the founders felt it would inevitably be used against the people in a tyrannical fashion as had been the case throughout history.
At a time when the tax burden to a citizen could range anywhere from 3-5% and mostly came in the form of tariffs on imports and exports, with no income or similar modern taxes, the government needed the limited tax dollars it was due to function.
When the miliitias failed to even try and stop the Whiskey Rebellion the case in favor of having a standing army (federal law enforcement falls under thier definition of such) became strong.

So they were forced to give up thier ideal government, and make one that posed a higher risk of tyranny but didn't depend on the generosity of the states to stay funded. As a result of the increaded risk of tyranny by having a government that could enforce tax collection, and one that would now have a standing army, they sought to add safeguards to minimize that risk.


It is less likely the later Southern Confederacy would have survived long term.
It is also likely the impact the fractured United States would have had in world events would have been greatly reduced. The outcome of World Wars or a similar later event for example quite different without involvement of either US troops or US industry being the prime producer for the allied forces.
As a smaller less powerful group of nations it is also quite likely what replaced the US would not have became a super power, and some other bigger more influential nation would have become and been the cultural influence the US was in the world. Our values or various forms of them would be less prevalent, and something else would have had more influence in the World shaping its perspective of rights and what is normal and acceptable.

If the south had won, we'd be under British rule today.

Unlikely since they would have likely been under German rule without the US industrial base to supply them when blockaded from the mainland.

 

[45_auto]

If the south had won, we'd be under British rule today.

Why? They've lost everything else they ruled in 1860 - Canada, Australia, India, South Africa, etc, etc, etc. See British empire in 1860 map below. What makes you think that they would currently be ruling the southern US?

http://www.drben.net/ChinaReport/So..._Dynasty/Map_World-British_Empire-1860AD.html

 

[stressed]

Here is a perfect example of someone raised in the south, who disowns and mocks it. I have rightfully predicted the attitude of most those in the current south, based on their marked locations (I don't even reside in the "south" anymore)

By the way, are you referring to me as "stupid" with your little comment about most who believe have not graduated and your bumper sticker comment? I have a four year degree, that must be odd for you to hear. I see you take the Hollywood approach. And I am sorry, there are no African Americans where I live. I'm guessing by your location listed as South Louisiana, there are many where you live. But I already knew that, I was there dealing with people in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina..

And as I referenced before, it's not north and south today, and the issue isn't slavery. Alaska and Montana would probably be leading states for another secession, and they are not located geographically south. But the parallels of one right leaning nation, and one left leaning nation are one in the same.

One thing I have predicted is that if the 2nd AMND is ever abolished, no one will fight back to preserve it, because most can't agree on something amongst themselves to join up together.

 

[Deanimator]

The Southern Confederacy was the embodiment of human degradation as a sacrament.

Apart from its similarly shortsighted military prowess, I have no respect for NSDAP Germany, which also practiced slavery. I have no more reason to respect practitioners of that bestial custom here.

 

[Deanimator]

Considering where slavery has gone in the rest of the world I doubt it would still exist in the south either had the Confederacy won. It certainly would have remained for awhile, but would have disappeared by now.

And nobody subjected to it had the slightest duty to wait for that to happen. In fact, they had the innate right to do whatever was necessary to escape from it, including kill.

 

[Walkalong]

Not seeing this as on topic. Slavery anywhere in the world of any kind is an abomination, but not what we are here to discuss.