The realities of the street
- Thread starter SouthernBoy
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Trunk Monkey
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Demilled said:
Even though the word never appears in the state penal code?
Trunk Monkey
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Apparently in Texas under TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY of the Texas Penal Code specifically CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES section 1 paragraph 8 (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
Which is what I'd call fanning your shirt over the firearm with the intent to intimidate G
he is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
So umm where are you moving to?
Which is what I'd call fanning your shirt over the firearm with the intent to intimidate G
he is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
So umm where are you moving to?
Trunk Monkey
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DeMilled said:
Then I suggest that it's more imortant what the state penal code says brandishing is than what Merriam Webster says it is.
Trunk Monkey
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fedlaw said:
Based on your user name I assume you are a cop. Surely you know that there are things you can get away with that the average citizen can not?
Trunk Monkey
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So I am going to bed, I assume that by the time I wake up this thread will be locked. I just want to put out this last thought; I’m not so much saying that Burned Out LEO’s advice is absolutely wrong as I am saying that you should be aware of your state’s laws and understand the risks involved with following his advice.
I also want to point out that “I read it on the internet" is not an affirmative defense any where (that I know of) in the USA.
Good night THR.
I also want to point out that “I read it on the internet" is not an affirmative defense any where (that I know of) in the USA.
Good night THR.
KY does not define it, they just go with the already established definition that's been in use for quite a few years now.
All the KY penal code does is lay out the charge for doing it; classA misdemeaner.
This was one of the many topics covered in the class I took to get my CCDW permit...
cowtownup
Member
subscribing to this thread....
JRH6856
Member
The difference is, Texas requires that a deadly weapon actually be involved in the threat. Colorado apparently only requires that you imply or claim to have the weapon (the reason I said to avoid Colorado).
If I flap my coat the only thing you are possibly threatened with might be damage to your hairdo from the breeze. Even if I do it to make you think I might be armed, in Texas, there is no threat.
Nor is there a threat from that action if I am armed and you actually see the holstered weapon. Recent Texas law protects CHL holders from prosecution for brandishing in the event of an inadvertant display. ("I'm sorry, Officer. I was reaching for my keys." or "I was just checking that I did not forget my wallet.")
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
As we say over and over (and over again) here - there is no substitute for knowing the law regarding self defense in your jurisdiction.
And it is critical to be aware and observant, and to be able to clearly articulate why you as "a reasonable person of ordinary firmness (which essentially means courage)," as my state phrases it, perceived a person or persons as a threat according to the standards established by statute and case law in your state.
And if you get any of that wrong, it's advisable to have the business card of a good criminal defense attorney in your wallet and enough money to pay him or her in the bank. Carrying a concealed weapon is serious business, and going about it lightly, carelessly, uninformed, with a bad attitude etc. is potentially troublesome and expensive.
And it is critical to be aware and observant, and to be able to clearly articulate why you as "a reasonable person of ordinary firmness (which essentially means courage)," as my state phrases it, perceived a person or persons as a threat according to the standards established by statute and case law in your state.
And if you get any of that wrong, it's advisable to have the business card of a good criminal defense attorney in your wallet and enough money to pay him or her in the bank. Carrying a concealed weapon is serious business, and going about it lightly, carelessly, uninformed, with a bad attitude etc. is potentially troublesome and expensive.
Derry 1946
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I second Fred's wise counsel. Know the laws where you live and travel. LEOs with decades on the job may be more skilled at and trained in recognizing early signs of an impending attack. They may also receive some deference in court due to their position. They almost certainly have a uniquely informed insight into the criminal mind. None of these will help non-LEOs to justify being quick to present (or pretend to present) or to use a firearm.
Old Dog
Member
... nevermind
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SleazyRider
Member
I possess neither, which is why I choose not to carry. To complicate matters further, I happen to live in a tri-states area, and it is not uncommon to find myself visiting 3 states in a single day. How can one stay abreast of the nuances of individual state law, let alone have the presence of mind to retrieve that information under duress?
You can't, that isn't how the mind works under life or death stress. If you are truly in fear for your life, protect yourself. Use of up to and including deadly force is legal in all 50 states if your are in reasonable fear of serious imminent bodily harm or death.
Like I said in an earlier post, if you are consciously wondering if it is OK to use deadly force, the answer is likely no. If deadly force is truly needed, you won't be wondering.
Trunk Monkey
member
I’ve mentioned this before but my first concern about this article is that we really don’t have any way of knowing who burned out LEO is, so we have no way to evaluate the validity of his advice.
What I do know is that some of what he’s advising would be a crime in most jurisdictions and that is something that definitely needs to be taken into account when deciding whether or not to follow the advice.
I want to be very clear that I’m (not that my advice would have any merit either) not saying disregard BOL’s advice here but if you choose to follow it you have to understand what you are risking if you’re wrong, especially if you’re wrong (or even if you’re right) and someone else does call the police.
I wouldn’t risk what I know is a crime in my jurisdiction unless I was fully prepared to articulate specific actions on the part of G that made me seriously believe he was getting ready to rob me and I’d also understand that just because I perceived that I was about to be robbed I’m not going to jail or going free based on my assessment.
It’s your life, you make the decision and you live with the consequences
What I do know is that some of what he’s advising would be a crime in most jurisdictions and that is something that definitely needs to be taken into account when deciding whether or not to follow the advice.
I want to be very clear that I’m (not that my advice would have any merit either) not saying disregard BOL’s advice here but if you choose to follow it you have to understand what you are risking if you’re wrong, especially if you’re wrong (or even if you’re right) and someone else does call the police.
I wouldn’t risk what I know is a crime in my jurisdiction unless I was fully prepared to articulate specific actions on the part of G that made me seriously believe he was getting ready to rob me and I’d also understand that just because I perceived that I was about to be robbed I’m not going to jail or going free based on my assessment.
It’s your life, you make the decision and you live with the consequences
Trunk Monkey
member
strambo said:
Just remember you aren't the one that decides whether or not you were justified in your fear
JRH6856
Member
Yes, know that up front and make a decision now whether or not to let that affect your decision then. When G approaches, do you act upon your fear of G, or fail to act because you fear what a jury might think? Which do you fear more? The consequences of your action or your inaction? That is a decision each of us has to make for ourselves. Considering it in advance can reduce hesitiation at a critical moment.
Yes, but if I am truly in fear for my life, what does that matter in that moment?
You either protect yourself or be victimized...
I'm not being flippant about the law either. While I'm far from a legal expert, I have a Crim. Justice degree and a bit of CCW instructor experience.
It is just that if you truly are in fear for your life you need to act not hesitate. Deal with the legal issues afterward. If you weren't truly in fear for your life, but talked yourself into pre-mature action, then you will probably have a higher legal price to pay (or higher attny. price to pay to get out of it).
Good advice.
Excellent advice.
About the only things one might add are
- Avoid risky situations whenever possible, and
- do everything you can to evade, deescalate, and escape.
The way he has described it, yes indeed.
Most experts would recommend against doing so.
Honest question for you guys; if a person can put off a bad guy from planning an attack on them by legally letting him know they are armed would you consider that a manner of deescalation?
I see it as heading trouble off before the bad guy can start it.
Bad guy sees that I am aware of him, now he sees that I have my pistol, bad guy decides not to start trouble.
Just another tool in the tool box, not to be used in every situation but still an option.
I see it as heading trouble off before the bad guy can start it.
Bad guy sees that I am aware of him, now he sees that I have my pistol, bad guy decides not to start trouble.
Just another tool in the tool box, not to be used in every situation but still an option.
Old Dog
Member
I've waited to see what kind of responses the OP generated.
In my opinion, "BurntOutLEO" needs to retire. When you're seeing bogeymen under every bed, you've got issues.
While I share his sentiment about bad people -- there are people who are irredeemably bad, who take pleasure in causing good people physical pain and mental anguish -- his advice is plain wrong.
You think a criminal won't call the cops on you? Better believe that the bad guys do take delight in using the system against citizens or law enforcement officers. Ask any patrol cop or correctional officer whether or not criminals will file complaints even attempt to press criminal charges against them ...
You'd BETTER make the phone call. Yeah, you'll probably lose some of your precious time making explanations, but absent any damning video or the bad guy actually coming forth to file a complaint against you -- if you draw your weapon, you sure better be ready to articulate why you felt you were in a deadly force confrontation.
My state has laws against brandishing -- any display of a firearm that might "warrant alarm" can prove to be very, very subjective and get you in very hot water.
"Well, these two guys approaching split up in a classic fan-maneuver ..." You wanna see the responding officer or prosecutor laugh and ask you what your experience is?
More to come. I have a few additional thoughts on this topic.
In my opinion, "BurntOutLEO" needs to retire. When you're seeing bogeymen under every bed, you've got issues.
While I share his sentiment about bad people -- there are people who are irredeemably bad, who take pleasure in causing good people physical pain and mental anguish -- his advice is plain wrong.
You think a criminal won't call the cops on you? Better believe that the bad guys do take delight in using the system against citizens or law enforcement officers. Ask any patrol cop or correctional officer whether or not criminals will file complaints even attempt to press criminal charges against them ...
You'd BETTER make the phone call. Yeah, you'll probably lose some of your precious time making explanations, but absent any damning video or the bad guy actually coming forth to file a complaint against you -- if you draw your weapon, you sure better be ready to articulate why you felt you were in a deadly force confrontation.
My state has laws against brandishing -- any display of a firearm that might "warrant alarm" can prove to be very, very subjective and get you in very hot water.
"Well, these two guys approaching split up in a classic fan-maneuver ..." You wanna see the responding officer or prosecutor laugh and ask you what your experience is?
More to come. I have a few additional thoughts on this topic.
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