I've seen a couple of forum comments (not here but elsewhere) that are patting Remington on the back for "doing right" by their customers. These individuals evidently have no concept that owners who purchased their guns in March have not had a functional (for its intended purpose of SD carry) firearm for more than 4 months. These same individuals (assuming they aren't shills for the company) also ARE NOT applying any sort of critical thinking to the matter or in the interpretation Remington's update. Anyone who think that the "new" R51 will be out in October, and/or that they will have a replacement, I believe is foolish. Remington released an update (7/25) that they are "replacing" all R51s. Production of the new guns is "expected" to start sometime in October. [not very committal at all...] Note, this DOES NOT mean anyone will be getting their gun replaced in October (which will already be over 7 months from when Remington started getting the malfunctioning guns back on RMA) - rather it means that they might [or might not] be producing the parts required for the production of the new guns on or by 10/31. There is NO ETA on when owners might actually get a replace gun back or the R51 will be back on the market. Oh, and I should mention that the "new" R51s will be produced in a brand new plant, in a different state, presumably staffed with brand new employees who've not even worked in the firearms industry. I honestly could not have imagined a more sorted, ugly, steaming pile of feces than what this matter has turned into. From gun writers (who presented themselves to be the corporate whores many of us always thought), to magazines supposedly staffed with "experts" who aren't "expert" enough to know that a firearm is having dire issues, to the filthy underbelly of the commercial gun press environment (and the coziness between the "journalists" and the corporations on paid for corporate junkets), to a company that would release a gun that could literally get someone injured or killed (either through inherit DISfunction, if not through a propensity to fire out of battery), then keep peoples guns for the much greater part of an entire year, I just couldn't imagine anything worse - until the slap in the face of the "update" that was actually provided.
This is my take on Remington’s “update” on the colossal mess that is otherwise known as the R51. First and foremost, let me speak to Remington’s claim “we determined the pistols were safe. . .” – I find this statement to be an utter falsehood. The R51 was and has only been marketed as a self-defense oriented, designed for concealed carry, combat handgun. Any firearm intended for this role, which is anything less than scrupulously reliable, is for certain *dangerous* in that it cannot be trusted to function if absolutely required to do so in a life or death situation. The R51 has shown a grievous LACK of reliability related to not one, not two, but SEVERAL well documented issues. These issues include (but are not limited to): an almost ubiquitous trait of not going fully into battery when being loaded, a propensity for repetitively exhibiting failures to function (mainly related to failure to extract), magazines that regularly fall out of the gun while shooting, and (most seriously) a documented (in multiple guns) ability to fire out of battery (a dangerous condition taken alone) which leads to the massively deformed case locking up the gun.
The bracketed inserts below are my comments and opinion.
“Earlier this year, we launched the innovative R51 subcompact pistol to critical acclaim.
[But that acclaim was NOT based on a functional review of the gun- which was conspicuously NOT present at the 2014 Shot Show Range Day]
During testing, numerous experts found the pistol to function flawlessly.
[So called “experts” who by in large shot the guns at Remington paid for corporate junkets where said “experts” were wined and dined, and treated to days of free shooting by Remington? Experts who later reported that the Guns HAD malfunctioned at the Gunsite launch – but attempted to explain away the malfunction as caused by wind and dust at the range?]
In fact, they found it to have lower felt recoil, lower muzzle rise and better accuracy and concealability than other products in its class.
[What obnoxious marketing crap given that they have had some people guns back on RMA for over 120 days now and have yet to state anything of significance to these individuals in this so called “update”!]
However, after initial commercial sales, our loyal customers notified us that some R51 pistols had performance issues.
[“Some R51 pistols?! SOME? Really?!! They are going to use “news speak” to paint an image that only “some” guns had issues?]
We immediately ceased production to re-test the product.
While we determined the pistols were safe [As an owner of 2 of these Guns I whole hearted disagree that these guns are “safe” at all], certain units did not meet Remington’s performance criteria.
[And how, pray tell, did these “some” guns make it out the door?]
The performance problems resulted from complications during our transition from prototype to mass production. These problems have been identified and solutions are being implemented, with an expected production restart in October.
[With an “expected” restart of production? Does anyone really believe this? What exactly does “expected restart of production” mean anyhow? That on October 31st they might start making the parts again that ultimately are required to be assembled into functional pistols to return to owners? How long does it take from the “expected restart” to when fully functional guns are shipping to owners? Does anyone serious think that they will be getting their gun back before mid-December at best?]
Anyone who purchased an R51 may return it and receive a new R51 pistol, along with two additional magazines and a custom Pelican case, by calling Remington at (800) 243-9700.
[My opinion on what this means – “we’re recalling this turd, but don’t want to call it that – so instead we’re “replacing” any R51s that have already been purchased.”]
The new R51 will be of the same exceptional quality as our test pistols, which performed flawlessly.
[We’re supposed to take this company’s word that they ever produced a quality product in the first place? Why, because the “experts” they are so cozy with reported only SOME issues with “pre-production guns?” Because of the “critical acclaim” that was based on NOT shooting the R51? What about durability by the way? Anyone going to mention the fact that the current guns have been showing a propensity to shred themselves severely in fewer than 100 rounds? That upon cleaning your gun after a burning a box of ammo at the range, metal chips fall out of it?]
We appreciate your patience and support.”
[Patience? I purchased 2 R51s in mid-March - by the time I expect I will actually receive replacements in mid-December *9 MONTHS WITHOUT A FUNCTIONING GUN WILL HAVE PASSED.* And my compensation is to be a plastic case in lieu of the cardboard box originally provided with the gun?]
I’ve learned to be very careful about saying “never” about anything in life. However, I will NEVER be purchasing another Remington product again. I don’t care if they truly do get the bugs worked out of the R51 [Something I seriously doubt] and they somehow work as claimed.
I also want to get his on record now. In the end, even if these guns can be debugged enough to function on some level that could reasonably be called "reliable" I believe the guns will STILL face a durability issue that will ultimately destroy them the longer they are shot. My honest belief (based on my guns and the wear they show from just a few hundred shots) is that these guns will have a service life of 1500 hundred rounds.
Read more:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/07/25/remington-r51-pistol-update/#ixzz38m5XFBcJ
