The Senate needs to act, gun owners need to speak on this one - S. 659

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We all knew this day would come... the first real battle in the war to eradicate the AW Ban. The gauntlet has been thrown down, my friends. The only question left is... how are you going to respond to the challenge???

Are you going to stand up & be counted or are you going to continue to wallow in apathy & cynicism?

Are you going to continue to talk tough, but do nothing? Are you an Internet commando, or are you going to sacrifice your time, $$$, and effort to protect & restore our RKBA?

Are you a fair weather patriot, or are you willing to make room in your life for the political activism needed to ensure that the AWB is cast upon history's ash heap of failed & discarded ideas?

Are you ready to acknowledge that this is not just a hobby or pastime that we are engaged in?

Are you willing to admit that this is a bare knuckles brawl to reclaim our birthright as free men?

Can you finally see that this a battle to preserve & restore the cultural & philosophical legacy that is the grand American experiment?

Are you ready to shoulder the burden that this is YOUR fight, YOUR chance to shape the course of history, YOUR responsibility, and YOUR opportunity to forge a legacy of liberty and freedom for your nation's future?

No free rides... The Essential "End the AW Ban" Contact List & Sample Letter Thread... and no excuses!!!
 
New Mexico senator Jeff Bingaman is trying to have it both ways. His rep. said he would like to support it, but he has concerns about protecting the public from defective firearms. This is bull, the law doesn't stop suits" for firearms with "defect in design". I've called 23 friends today in NM and asked them to call Bingaman's number. I bet most will. 1-800-443-8658(Bingaman's #). Don't let these guys off the hook. Tell them you strongly support S659 WITHOUT amendments. The NRA site is just one that has your senator's phone number.
 
I spoke with people at Hatch and Bennett's offices in Utah and Washington today. Apparently they are getting absolutely bombarded with calls about this bill! :) Keep up the good work guys.
 
NY Patriot offered the following, worth reading too:

We all knew this day would come... the first real battle in the war to eradicate the AW Ban. The gauntlet has been thrown down, my friends. The only question left is... how are you going to respond to the challenge???

Are you going to stand up & be counted or are you going to continue to wallow in apathy & cynicism?

Are you going to continue to talk tough, but do nothing? Are you an Internet commando, or are you going to sacrifice your time, $$$, and effort to protect & restore our RKBA?

Are you a fair weather patriot, or are you willing to make room in your life for the political activism needed to ensure that the AWB is cast upon history's ash heap of failed & discarded ideas?

Are you ready to acknowledge that this is not just a hobby or pastime that we are engaged in?

Are you willing to admit that this is a bare knuckles brawl to reclaim our birthright as free men?

Can you finally see that this a battle to preserve & restore the cultural & philosophical legacy that is the grand American experiment?

Are you ready to shoulder the burden that this is YOUR fight, YOUR chance to shape the course of history, YOUR responsibility, and YOUR opportunity to forge a legacy of liberty and freedom for your nation's future?

No free rides... The Essential "End the AW Ban" Contact List & Sample Letter Thread... and no excuses!!!

I hear, in his comments, an echo of things I've previously said here and in other places. He might be somewhat more emotional or eloquent than I, but let that pass. The points made, I think, CANNOT be overstressed.

Ladies and gentlemen, the thing lies in YOUR hands. If you blow this one, and remember, there are other aspects too, do not scratch your head tomorrow, in wonder regarding all the bad things that suddenly happened.
 
Everyone should call both of their Senators now, both in Washington & their state offices.

To call Washington, the Capital Switchboard has two (2) toll free numbers:

1-800-648-3516

1-800-839-5276

Let them know, NO AWB, no renewal, no new bill, and NO COMPROMISE!
 
I called both my senators in virginia this morning, and think I got the same nice girl both times, to give my little speech about if they vote for or support a awb renewal, they will lose the vote they had from me, and I will give it to a libertarian or democratic canidate, but definitly not them. I also sent emails today, and If I get the chance Ill write a snail mail letter friday. This crap may happen, but I can at least say I gave it my all in fighting it.
 
Calls made - Sen Mc Traitor, er, Mc Cain said cloture HAD been passed. The floor calender for today -
Floor Calendar for Thursday, February 26, 2004

The Senate will convene at 9:30am to resume consideration of S. 1805, the Gun Liability bill. Upon taking up the bill, Sen. Daschle will be recognized to offer his perfecting amendment. There will be up to 30 minutes debate in relation to the Daschle amendment. Following the expiration or yielding back of time, Sen. Boxer will be recognized to offer a gun lock amdt. There will be up to 30 minutes debate on the Boxer amendment. Upon the expiration or yielding back or expiration of the 30 minutes, Sen. DeWine will be recognized to offer his relevant 2nd Degree amendment to the Boxer amendment.

Upon the expiration or yielding back of time, there will be stacked Roll Call Votes on the the DeWine 2nd Degree amendment, and the Boxer amendment.


Senators should expect the first Roll Call Vote of today's session to occur at approximately 11:00am.


As stated in the previous order, printed in the front of the Calendar of Business for Feb. 25, 2004, multiple amendments will come to the floor under time agreements, so Senators should expect Roll Call Votes throughout today's session.
Click to expand...

Who's DeWine, and what is the 2nd Degree Amendment?
 
braindead0:

S. 1805 was substituted for S. 659, I don't know why, as so far as I can tell, they both say the same thing.

On 25 February, cloture was voted, means no fillibuster, look at who voted nay.

Today, amendments to be offered, and voted upon, likely roll call votes throughout the day.

Final vote on S. 1805/S.659 scheduled for next Tuesday. Supposedly, a vote on Assault Weapons Ban scheduled for same day. Keep after your Senators.

end
 
Quick summary of today's events as of now:

Here is an update:

S.Amdt. 2620 was passed 70-27. This is the Boxer gunlock amendment. No text is available for it yet; but it is presumed to look similar to the Kohl bill that amended it.

The text of that bill is here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67534

S.Amdt. 2617 - Motion to waive Cantwell Unemployment Extension Amendment failed as it needed 60 votes and only got 58.

S.Amdt. 2628 - Frist Amdt. No. 2628; To exempt any lawsuit involving a shooting victim of John Allen Muhammad or John Lee Malvo from the definition of qualified civil liability action that meets certain requirements. - Passed 59-37

S.Amdt. 2627 - Mikulski Amdt. No. 2627; To exempt lawsuits involving a shooting victim of John Allen Muhammad or Lee Boyd Malvo from the definition of qualified civil liability action.-REJECTED

For the very important difference between these two amendments that look the same see Publicola: http://publicola.blogspot.com/

S.Amdt XXXX - Third Frist amendment of the night - says that law enforcement can sue under S.1805 like everyone else - Passed 60-34

S.Amdt XXXX - Corzine amendment - says law enforcement is immune from S.1805. REJECTED 56-38

Right now, two amendments are scheduled to be debated today and two more to be debated on Monday with no votes scheduled until Tuesday - when the big votes, AWB Renewal and Gunshow background check, will go down.

You can read the Senate daily digest here:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_108_2.htm

It includes a list of how Senators voted and the text of amendments (where available) - although the roll call votes seems to be getting swamped and disappeared even though some of them where there earlier...

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_108_2.htm
 
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Bart Roberts noted, in part, the following:

You can read the Senate daily digest here:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L..._menu_108_2.htm

It includes a list of how Senators voted and the text of amendments (where available) - although the roll call votes seems to be getting swamped and disappeared even though some of them where there earlier...


Roll Call Votes "dissappeared", how convenient, how wonderfully convenient, who was it that observed that "In the U.S. we have the best Congress (House and Senate) that money can buy". Guess which side has the benefit of a bunch of those "heavy hitters"?

Do I sound bitter?

By the way, respecting exempting the victims of the D.C. Sniper from the provisions of the proposal, could anyone explain to me, by what stretch of ones imagination, other than operating a LEGAL BUSINESS, was Bushmaster, in any eway at all, culpable? I get rather curious as to that sort of thing. By the way, if some drunk driver has run through a bunch of people, killing several, would the Chevrolette Division of General Motors be responsible? Funny, the things I get curious about, isn't it?
 
By the way, respecting exempting the victims of the D.C. Sniper from the provisions of the proposal, could anyone explain to me, by what stretch of ones imagination, other than operating a LEGAL BUSINESS, was Bushmaster, in any eway at all, culpable? I get rather curious as to that sort of thing. By the way, if some drunk driver has run through a bunch of people, killing several, would the Chevrolette Division of General Motors be responsible? Funny, the things I get curious about, isn't it?
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I think this legislation is bunk. If we're going to do anything it should hold all manufacturers of any product not liable if their product is used in an illegal act (drunk drivers, random loonies, parents not monitoring 5 gallon plastic buckets, etc). (Landowners as well).

This law is creating a special class of manufacturer with legal protections beyond what any other manufacturer has.. simply because our legal system isn't dismissing these lawsuits right off the bat (as they should).
 
alan - Roll call votes were back last time I looked, I think it was more a function of heavy server traffic than a deliberate effort to hide the votes.
 
braindead0:

I noticed that you quoted part of my comment, please excuse the odd typo, as I grow older, my typing grows worse, as measured on a logarithmic scale.

In any event, respecting your objections to the proposals, S.659/1805, correct me if I'm wrong, you complain of the creation of a "special class of manufacturer". You also made mention of the fact that the law (courts)aren't dismissing these suits as quickly as they should. You might well have a point there, and in my opinion, the courts aught to levy costs against the parties bringing these frivilous suits. I hadn't noticed any doing that, nor do I know if such as that is doable. It might well be that all the trial judge can do is to dismiss a frivilous suit, with prejudice, which means that it cannot be brought later on. He or she might be able to censure an attorney, but I expect that that would be a real stretch.

Do to the state of the law and the courts, the enactment of S659/1805 might actually do a lot more than create the "special class of manufacturer" that you spoke of, for later on, down the road, in other actions, the courts might well extend the protection offered to others not mentioned in present proposals, others, who like gun makers now, are the victims of actions brought to drive them out of business if possible, that goal has been voiced, rather than simply recovering money damages arising from the demonstrably culpable business practices of the defendant.

So sir, I suggest that you carefully consider aspects of this issue that might have escaped your attention. Anyhow, thanks for reading what I offered.
 
So let me get this straight?

Right now as the bill stands, if it passes on Tuesday, it will exempt gun manufacturers from lawsuits where their product was used illegally AND it will force me (gun owners) to use locks that must be included with all new guns sold?
 
TheOtherOne:

I don't think that you have it quite right. First thing is that ANY differences between House passed version and whatever the Senate ends up passing will have to be ironed out, if possible, not always the case.

Second, there are at least a couple of amendments pending, to be voted on next tuesday, as I understand. One by Senator Ben Nighthorse Cambell, that would allow retired leo's to carry concealed throughout the country. This isn't anti-gun, however since it does NOT allow licensed citizens, other than retired LEO's, to do the same, it is less than acceptable. Also, Senator Kennedy is, once again, proposing to ban "armor piercing ammunition", which by his lights include most if not all "sporting rifle" rounds, for instance the 30-06, which blows through most, if not all "body armor" without even slowing down.

Third, as for that gun safety lock business, as I understand it, the gun maker has to provide one, you the gun purchaser, do not have to use the fool thing. There was also an amendment accepted by the Senate, to establish an exception for leo's, that is they could sue a gun maker, based on a bad guy's criminal use of a firearm. You, Mr. Ordinary Joe, couldn't. Re the machinations of the anti-gunners, such as this essentially guts S. 1805, it's a killer amendment.

As I mentioned at the outset, re differences between House passed version and Senate passed version, any differences must be ironed out. Failing this, no legislation is enacted. If you read S. 659 and S. 1805, then read the House passed legislation, you will note that they all say the same thing. Amendments adopted by The Senate change the story, and could well spell the end of the whole thing.

The Senate SHOULD hsave passed a clean bill. They chose to play the amendment game, a problem that appears to lay directly in the laps of Republican leadership, most especially Bill Frist. The foregoing reflects my, perhaps faulty understanding of the thing. Check it out for yourself.
 
bjengs

"Why is everyone so upset? I am very confident that President Bush will veto this bill. He is, after all, pro-RKBA."



Karl Rove will not allow President Bush to even hold that veto stamp let alone put ink on it!
 
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