THE Unofficial Countdown to AWB II Thread...

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Rather than just concede point by point to the antis, match them demand by demand with a list of our own. Compromise is where each side gives up something for the common good, so fat all our side has done is give. Time to start taking back our rights.
 
Rather than just concede point by point to the antis, match them demand by demand with a list of our own. Compromise is where each side gives up something for the common good, so fat all our side has done is give. Time to start taking back our rights.

No, the time to start taking back our rights was BEFORE tuesday ... now the antis are in power so its their government ... no we have no more say (and thats just the way they like it).
 
yep...

...No one wants this to escalate to the point of sucession and civil war, but...

maybe we should take a momentary breath and see what exactly THEY do, and then we can take it as far as we want. MAYBE, just MAYBE, this won't be the hell we are anticipating. I don't really belive that for a second, but I see no reason to call the sky "falling" just yet.

Rapidly looking heavier maybe, with cracks appearing, but not yet falling.
 
Rather than just concede point by point to the antis, match them demand by demand with a list of our own.

"Ok fine, we'll let you outlaw AR-15 lower receivers if in return, M-16 lowers are made completely legal, including new manufacture" :D
 
The majority of gun owners could care less if there was a new AWB. I doubt too many people will try to fight it. If you like Assault rifles than I would stock up now since they will probably banned by end of next year.
 
Buddy, we should have stocked up on assault rifles during prohibition, before the NFA.
Worst comes to worse, we need to teach the politicians who they really work for: not the government, but the people.
 
Rather than just concede point by point to the antis, match them demand by demand with a list of our own. Compromise is where each side gives up something for the common good, so fat all our side has done is give. Time to start taking back our rights.

You are in denial and are not seeing reality.

Compromise is possible only when each side in a situation has roughly equal leverage. Then both sides work out how they can walk away with less than they want but more than they might otherwise have. That situation does not exist today, and it can't be faked.

Gun owners now have no leverage. They have demonstrated to everyone with a brain that they cannot be counted on as single-issue voters and that they will not support anyone who doesn't meet their impossible standards as "friends." So most of their partial and only friends are gone or weakened by lack of support, and those who remain would have to be idiots to believe that they can either count on gun owners to support them if they help or fear that gun owners will not support them if they don't.

Gun owners now have no credibility either. By not being a credible voting block, they have weakened the NRA as a credible spokesman for them. Read what they Brady Campaign says about the matter. They have whipped the NRA, which is no longer a force to be reckoned with.

The fatal flaw in taking an "All or nothing" position is that sooner or later you wind up with nothing and no way to negotiate anything at all. You've lost your bargaining chips. You can't compromise when you don't have chips.

In fact your strategy might be clever in an odd way. When you "demand" anything at all, there's a chance that some people on the other side might become incapacitated by a fit of uncontrollable laughter. Then you can steal their wallets and run like hell. It might work, but it's the only thing that stands a chance now.

This game is over. Gun owners threw it away. What happens next is unpredictable only in how it will be done and when. The festivities will begin in January, when the new Congress is seated, and the Democratic leadership will determine the dance card. You have the rest of November and all of December to store the memories that must last your lifetime. I think it would be foolish to buy anything more: in the near term it's likely to be so heavily taxed, regulated, or controlled that you won't be able to keep it. In the long run--perhaps only a matter of months--it will be banned, confiscated, or "bought back" for trivial sums as was done in Australia. Law Enforcement Officers should not expect to be exempt either. Anti-gun people don't like or trust them either and consider them a necessary evil. My guess is that LEOs won't be allowed to retain anything but departmental issued weapons, and those only under strict control by their departments.

By the way, it is not helpful for lunatics to make violent threats because they can't have their way. It scares the majority of the people, those of us who do not want nut cases to have weapons. Many of the anti-gun people already believe that gun owners are nuts. No good will come of reinforcing their beliefs. Those gun owners who are not insane don't like it either.

It will take a far more intelligent and inventive person than I to see a way out of this predictable mess. I don't see any way out at all. It was predictable and some of us warned repeatedly that it would surely happen if gun owners did not join together and vote the NRA recommendations, but that's the past and it can't be reclaimed.
 
I posted something similar in another thread, but my opinion is that we deserve this....

When the repubs took office, we didn't repeal gun laws and change everything. We left it as is. We let the AWB sunset and NO ONE brought a new on to the table. We just left things as is and I am tired of that.

The Liberal Dems always get pandered to by their party. We don't get squat from our party. When the Dems get elected, everyone starts screaming GUN BAN TIME and it happens.

When our party gets elected NOTHING FREAKING WELL CHANGES. From now on my vote is TOTALLY condiitonal. I want a REPEAL OF ALL GUN LAWS. Two can play this game. I want a Consitutional amendment taking that stupid MILITA word out of the 2nd amendment, so that it is clear that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I say that is what we push for. No more of this just stupidly supporting the repubs. I want the repubs to act like the Dems, but pro gun.

:banghead:
 
I think an AWB is coming and I'm surprised it hasn't come yet. IIRC, that was one of Ws reelection promises, to resign the AWB back into effect.

My thinking went (and sorta still) goes along these lines: I would of thought W would have signed it before the recent elections in order to help the Republican base. He did not. I still think he could use this as an 'ace in the sleeve' come '08 elections as something positive the Reublicans can add to their record, unless of course, the Dems get to it first.
 
Oh fantastic. Just what we need, more doom-and-gloom, sky-is-falling, end-of-the-world prognosticating in the absence of any available evidence. Are you people all thirteen years old? Do you get some kind of satisfaction by letting all the angst out? Has hysteria suddenly become trendy among the conservative set?

Grow up. The sky is not falling, the end is not near.

Worst possible case is that we get some manner of anti-gun bill out of committee toward the end of January 2007. That's the soonest it can possibly happen. All that we know for certain at this point is that the Democrats have the committee seats to allow a floor vote in the House. That's it. It's entirely unclear whether the Dems have the votes to pass in the House, much less the Senate. Frankly, until Congress convenes there's no point in speculating.

People, the war is not over just because we lost one lousy battle. We've had two days to sob and lick our wounds, and that's enough. No more blubbering, no more defeatism, and if you really want to express your tortured angst, do it on MySpace or something. Let's hear some discussion about how we're going to weather the upcoming storm, how we can shift the GOP in a more pro-gun/anti-government direction, anything but this constant whinging.

- Chris
 
I keep reading thread after thread of some of the most depressing talk I've ever seen on these boards. Maybe I'm just young, naive, and idealistic, but I think we still have a good shot at avoiding a new AWB. Yes, the Dems took control of Congress. But they did it with new faces from "red" states, many of which purport to be pro-gun. These are the people who generally feel more pressure from their constituencies.

Instead of giving up and consigning ourselves to a new AWB, we need to lean hard on these new Congresscritters to support us and remember that their terms can be brutally short. We're not out of the fight yet, so stop acting like we are.

Of course, I'm still going to blow my tax return on an new AR-15:eek:
 
I think the dems will try to win 2008, a new AWB will assure they loose.

Agreed, but take it a step further. If they (the Dems) do capture the White House in '08, the Second Amendment will be effectively gutted under the guise of anti-terrorist legislation.

And don't be so sure that it won't happen under Bush's remaining two-year lame-duck term. He's already commented that he would sign the AWB if Congress passed the bill. Fortunately, the (then) Republican Congress let it expire. That last bastion of restraint is now gone. :(
 
Oh fantastic. Just what we need, more doom-and-gloom, sky-is-falling, end-of-the-world prognosticating in the absence of any available evidence. Are you people all thirteen years old? Do you get some kind of satisfaction by letting all the angst out? Has hysteria suddenly become trendy among the conservative set?
Do I have to say it yet again?

Those who plan for defeat, usually achieve it!

Anybody who thinks their assault weapons are going to be taken away should PM me so that I can discuss purchasing such of them as I find pleasing. The doomsayers sound like a bunch of Joe Kennedy's running around in a tizzy trying to figure out how they can cut a deal with Hitler.

The rest of us should however keep fighting, refusing to compromise and making life hell for those who want to turn us all into victims.
 
" ... opinion is that we deserve this ..."

WHAT??

No. The encroachment of civil rights is never "deserved."

The. Right. To. Keep. And. Bear. Arms.

It's not a priviledge, or something we get as a concession.

It is a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Defend it loudly. Use the First to protect the Second.

Make it clear that the Second is not a "second class" amendment.

FIGHT, DAMN IT!

There is ALWAYS A WAY.

I'll be damned if I will sit and snivel while someone gleefully attacks my rights.

Find a way. Do NOT back down. The Constitution and its Bill Of Rights is not subject to bargaining.

Somewhere among 80 million gun owners there have got to be enough grassroots faithful that a serious, non-ignorable movement can be brought to bear.

There's no smiley in the list with a lightning bolt, but that's what belongs here.
 
Hey buddy,

Read the rest of what I wrote. Next time, we will demand that (just like the Gun grabbers on the other side) that our party take up our call to arms, or we will find us another horse to ride.

I saw we push for an amendment to the 2nd amendment that takes out Militia. Also, that we begin overturning the older NFA's and so on...
 
If worse comes to worse we have the right to free ourselves of tyranny. We can even remove all politicans from D.C. and replace them with people who are going to do what is right for the country. To work for us and protect our rights and country from all threats. It seems that all parties forgot how they got there. It was by us voting them in. That dosent give them the right to move on their personal agends, but the ones we want moved on. They work for us, we pay them. What would happen to any of you if you treated your company, boss, or client the way they do. Besides that half the things they do dont even fall into what the constitution says they should be doing. If they did only what they were supposed to the country would have a huge surplus of money to boot. These are just some of my opinions. But we dont have to sit back and live with a bill that the minority of people in the country can agree with. Now I understand why my teacher said the minority not the majority of people often get things voted in their favor.:cuss:
 
Will they be able to take the hi-cap mags you currently own? Man, if that happens I will leave this country. Thats like communist control and thats not what we are supposed to stand for:fire: I wonder what Canada's gun laws are like...hmmm better do some research. :)
 
Possible, but never mentioned at "Beltway Sniper" time

Now *that* would have been an opportune moment for people who wanted to ban military-style rifles (or more highly regulate longarms / guns in general).

There have certainly been some other sniping psychopaths lately (Arizona, perhaps some other places, too), and while they might inspire literal terror to those in the neighborhood, I haven't heard any hue and cry raised to ban their weapons as a preventative measure. This doesn't mean there hasn't been such a hue and cry -- perhaps Arizonans can enlighten here. I remember somewhere in the mid-south (TN? VA?) there was a series of roadside shootings, too, where drivers in a certain stretch of blue highway were being targeted, but the timing is hazy, and I'm not sure if that was before or after the beltway one.

But in the Beltway shootings, I didn't hear too much anti-gun sentiment in response. Was there a blame-the-guns twitch from Rosie O'Donnell and friends?

timothy

p.s.Two guys and a rifle certainly caused (very legitimate) fear; turns out, my sister was working alone in an office at a strip mall while they were briefly parked there -- luckily for her they weren't shooting anyone that night. *If* someone was a genuine terrorist rather than an ordinary extortionist as Malvo & Co. turned out to be, a bunch of one-shot snipers at various exits around D.C. would certainly serve to stir up panic.
 
I don't know if the Dem will try a new AWB.


I think thay will try to sneak something in the back door.

You know semiauto ,ammo or .50 cal bill, onto a big bill that Bush want to pass.:uhoh:
 
Once the Democrats start digging up dirt on the remaining Republicans in the House and Senate for past abuses. The Dems will effectivly blackmail the Republicans into supporting any new legislation including Anti-gun bills. The pro gun Dems that where elected will also have to toe the line or else they won't get any treats by the Dem leadership. Their will be no grid lock. I expect a new AWB early mid next year.
 
Ancient Chinese Curse :

"May you live in interesting times."

LawDog Files
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/11/ancient-chinese-curse.html


I am also comforted by the fact that the last time the Donks were in power the World Wide Web was still a figment of Al Gore's imagination. The Democrats have never been the majority power with the entire Blogosphere breathing down their necks, analyzing their every move, and (metaphorically-speaking) going six feet up their fourth point of contact with a microscope when required.

One tiny bit of whimsy: it's been easy for the Democrats to throw rocks at the Republicans running things. Now it's the Democrats turn in the barrel. It's their turn to do the catching while the other party does the pitching.


LawDog seems to know how far to lead a Chicken Little ...I'm betting Dawg is a Swing Shooter and knows the value of follow through once he slaps trigger.
;)

Nice shot Dawg

Steve
 
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