threefeathers
member
Domestic disputes, the worst situation for a cop to handle. Looks like the perp has a revolver and he cought the responding officers by supprise.
These mass shootings and the right to keep and BEAR arms,
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*Throws dead conspiracy into the center of the table*
Here's your conspiracy right here. I found it, and terminated it with extreme prejudice. The reason why we have "more" killings during an assault weapon ban possible time is because the media covers the shootings more. How many shootings did we *not* hear about because A. The shooter was incapable of neutralizing his targets B. He got shot, beaten or otherwise defeated before he could start shooting C. The shooting was accomplished with a non-media-sensational weapon (mad gunman kills nine people with worn-out ratted-up duct-taped together jungle carbine just doesn't have the media flair)
We have a description on the weapons used, a 9mm and a .45 pistol. no makes and models yet.
I too heard high-powered rifle and initial reports of 12-14 dead and four wounded.
No conspiracy here, just media massaging to make worthless hippie rudypoo 'help you' types and evironmentalist lesbians that wear fiber sandals and only eat twigs and berries cry out for more legislation.
Here's your conspiracy right here. I found it, and terminated it with extreme prejudice. The reason why we have "more" killings during an assault weapon ban possible time is because the media covers the shootings more. How many shootings did we *not* hear about because A. The shooter was incapable of neutralizing his targets B. He got shot, beaten or otherwise defeated before he could start shooting C. The shooting was accomplished with a non-media-sensational weapon (mad gunman kills nine people with worn-out ratted-up duct-taped together jungle carbine just doesn't have the media flair)
We have a description on the weapons used, a 9mm and a .45 pistol. no makes and models yet.
I too heard high-powered rifle and initial reports of 12-14 dead and four wounded.
No conspiracy here, just media massaging to make worthless hippie rudypoo 'help you' types and evironmentalist lesbians that wear fiber sandals and only eat twigs and berries cry out for more legislation.
Double Naught Spy.
Call me a LIAR if you so choose.
Don't cite sources such as WIKIPEDIA to back up your assault on my personal character.
This thread is about the rights and abilities of armed citizens and how the outcome of these tragic events may have been altered by one person having a gun and willing to use it which, obviously, did not occur.
Save your personal attacks for another day.
Call me a LIAR if you so choose.
Don't cite sources such as WIKIPEDIA to back up your assault on my personal character.
This thread is about the rights and abilities of armed citizens and how the outcome of these tragic events may have been altered by one person having a gun and willing to use it which, obviously, did not occur.
Save your personal attacks for another day.
The NY shooting done by the vietnamese immigrant was done by a man wearing body armor.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/04/national/main4918950.shtml
The guy that engaged the police yesterday in Pittsburgh killing 3 of them was wearing body armor.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/05/pittsburgh-gunman-kills-3-police-officers/
Several recent local home invasions the perps were wearing body armor, some of them posing as LEO.
Doing a quick search I find multiple home invasions in the last month around the nation of criminals wearing body armor and those are just the cases where that fact made it to the news.
Body armor is now a common trend of killers.
Laws that outlaw ammunition fired from standard self defense pistols which is designed to defeat body armor is in place.
Outside of carrying some impractical caliber most rounds would have been defeated COM.
Headshots sounds fine, but is much more difficult when your target is moving and shooting at you. Especialy when your entire body is vulnerable, but key portions of thiers is protected and the platform you are using is a pistol.
So be sure to practice.
Outlawing body armor is of course not the solution, criminals still obtain it, and have been known to make it homemade as well. It is not too difficult to stitch together materials with inserts or connectors that hold materials that can defeat most common rounds.
The thing that makes most commercial armor special is that it is lightweight due to exotic synthetics, not just the ability to stop rounds, the ability to stop rounds and be light enough to wear throughout the day. Not such a concern to a criminal that just needs to put it on long enough to do something.
Organized crime has been using body armor since before LEO or the military though so that is nothing new.
Just another fact I thought I would toss out there.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/04/national/main4918950.shtml
The guy that engaged the police yesterday in Pittsburgh killing 3 of them was wearing body armor.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/05/pittsburgh-gunman-kills-3-police-officers/
Several recent local home invasions the perps were wearing body armor, some of them posing as LEO.
Doing a quick search I find multiple home invasions in the last month around the nation of criminals wearing body armor and those are just the cases where that fact made it to the news.
Body armor is now a common trend of killers.
Laws that outlaw ammunition fired from standard self defense pistols which is designed to defeat body armor is in place.
Outside of carrying some impractical caliber most rounds would have been defeated COM.
Headshots sounds fine, but is much more difficult when your target is moving and shooting at you. Especialy when your entire body is vulnerable, but key portions of thiers is protected and the platform you are using is a pistol.
So be sure to practice.
Outlawing body armor is of course not the solution, criminals still obtain it, and have been known to make it homemade as well. It is not too difficult to stitch together materials with inserts or connectors that hold materials that can defeat most common rounds.
The thing that makes most commercial armor special is that it is lightweight due to exotic synthetics, not just the ability to stop rounds, the ability to stop rounds and be light enough to wear throughout the day. Not such a concern to a criminal that just needs to put it on long enough to do something.
Organized crime has been using body armor since before LEO or the military though so that is nothing new.
Just another fact I thought I would toss out there.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Okay Mr. Honesty, you made up a rule that I can't cite Wiki to back up my statements. I cited Wiki once for data about Kip Kinkel? Fine. It was an easy citation to make, done out of convenience, but I will find other sources...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/01/21/national/main151927.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/US/9805/21/shooting.pm/index.html
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20125465,00.html
There, I stand by my points and do so without citing Wiki, though Wiki was right. Happy?
Ah, but the premises you used to justify your beliefs were not based, in part, on known facts. You made up or misrepresent some aspects in order to justify your conclusion. Since your background information is in error, your conclusion is weakened.
If you think I am personally attacking you because I call into question your misrepresentation of the truth, then prove me wrong and make me look bad. Prove it that the shooter in EVERY one of these mass shootings knew his victims would be unarmed and defenseless. I honestly don't see how you can claim that the shooters knew their victims would be unarmed and defenseless when they were attacking places with cops and/or attacking cops, so please, explain in detail so that I might better understand your perspective.
Oh, and don't cite Wikipedia.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
It happens, it just doesn't make headlines, it's a page 3 story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512561,00.html
No injuries, no blood. No blood, no ratings.
Titan6
member
This is a very bad premise for a thread.
I fail to see how ambushing police as in the CA and PA shootings is expecting to shoot unarmed people.
Many of the other cites are valid as well. An unarmed populace may contribute to the number of people killed but if the killer is expecting to be shot at (Tyler, PA, NY, LA) he brings a vest to the fight.
What we are talking about here mostly are crazy people. Not rational. I guess we could make crazy illegal but who would be left in Washington to run the government?
I fail to see how ambushing police as in the CA and PA shootings is expecting to shoot unarmed people.
Many of the other cites are valid as well. An unarmed populace may contribute to the number of people killed but if the killer is expecting to be shot at (Tyler, PA, NY, LA) he brings a vest to the fight.
What we are talking about here mostly are crazy people. Not rational. I guess we could make crazy illegal but who would be left in Washington to run the government?
ccsniper
member
lock lock lockoty lock, where are the mods?
The_Shootist
Member
I wonder if the shooters take into account the CHL practices of a state. Haven't heard of these events lately occurring in Texas, although the nursing home shooting in NC might poke holes in that theory.
X-Rap
Member
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Didn't the NY shooter have a CHL?
I understand from reports that the Pittsburg shooter had a Dishonorable Discharge without completing basic. Doesn't the law forbid gun ownership?
The Koreans shot a missle and the press is following the prez in Europe, there is hardly a word on the shootings today.
I understand from reports that the Pittsburg shooter had a Dishonorable Discharge without completing basic. Doesn't the law forbid gun ownership?
The Koreans shot a missle and the press is following the prez in Europe, there is hardly a word on the shootings today.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
There is no indication of it. People that go on these sorts of shooting sprees don't usually decide to travelt to another state with stricter gun laws so as to be more successful with their killing. The generally do their work in their home state and either in their home town or work town - usually what is locally convenient and usually where they have experienced problems. As in Alabama, it was across multiple towns (and they have concealed carry).
Atlanta, Georgia, July 1999. A stockmarket day trader goes on a day-long shooting rampage, killing 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.
Omaha, Nebraska, December 2007. Nine people are killed and five others injured after a 20-year-old shooter armed with a military-style assault rifle attacks shoppers in a mall.
Haven't heard of them occurring in Texas lately? How lately?
Tyler Courthouse Shooting 2005
Fort Worth Church Shooting 1999
While not a mass shooting, but a serial shooting, the Beltway snipers sniped victims in AZ and in my home town of Denton, Texas before their shootings around the Beltway.
So, probably not. Concealed carry isn't going to have much of an influence on these folks, especially the crazy ones, when only 1-5% of the adult (legally able to carry) population is licensed to carry and even less of those actually do carry and even less would intervene. In other words, until concealed carry folks number sufficiently to be seen stopping violent crimes on a daily basis, bad guys aren't going to fear being stopped by concealed carry folks. A lot don't even fear being stopped by the cops because there just aren't that many cops available either.
I think the one theme that can be drawn from this discussion is that left unchecked by some intervention this will continue to happen. The intervention may be physical in the moment that an individual commits these terrible acts, or they may be psychological or social in the weeks or months prior.
This is becoming a new form of suicide. These people have no intention of surviving the event. The body armor wasn't so they could survive combat with police and live a long life in prison. It was to give them enough time to exact the revenge they felt they deserved.
This has absolutely nothing to do with guns. Period. Ban the guns and the knives are next, then "aluminum assault bats", cars, then small propane tanks "the bombs in your back yard" c'mon!! For once let's do the hard thing that nobody wants to do because it's hard. Our society is messed up! We are more connected to some fake named nobody in a chat room than we are with our neighbors. (the irony of that is not lost on me)
Isn't it amazing how 2-3 days later the media can find a bunch of people that "aren't surprised" that this person did that? Where were you 3 days ago?
We need to be more proactive as a society and as gun owners. The people will eventually grow tired enough of these tragedies that just like the economy, any action, regardless of consequence, will be seen as acceptable.
This is becoming a new form of suicide. These people have no intention of surviving the event. The body armor wasn't so they could survive combat with police and live a long life in prison. It was to give them enough time to exact the revenge they felt they deserved.
This has absolutely nothing to do with guns. Period. Ban the guns and the knives are next, then "aluminum assault bats", cars, then small propane tanks "the bombs in your back yard" c'mon!! For once let's do the hard thing that nobody wants to do because it's hard. Our society is messed up! We are more connected to some fake named nobody in a chat room than we are with our neighbors. (the irony of that is not lost on me)
Isn't it amazing how 2-3 days later the media can find a bunch of people that "aren't surprised" that this person did that? Where were you 3 days ago?
We need to be more proactive as a society and as gun owners. The people will eventually grow tired enough of these tragedies that just like the economy, any action, regardless of consequence, will be seen as acceptable.
rbernie
Contributing Member
That says it all.
This was a good discussion, but it's time to pull a curtain over it.
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