They'd sell like hotcakes if they were only brought back!

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I would certainly take a semi-auto ruger carbine in 44 mag.

Most of the ones i've seen offered for sale are very well used, to put it politely, and are being offered at premium prices.


I'd also like to point out that there are AR uppers for just about every pistol caliber ever made, that work pretty well from the reviews.

If you really want a 9mm carbine, its reportedly one of the most popular of the bunch.
 
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Aragon said:
Bingo.

There's something else to the equation too. I don't think most gun manufacturers are good at building and marketing a really wide range of guns and making money at it.
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I'm not sure that any amount of marketing could make guns such as the ones you profitable.

Don't get me wrong, I think such guns are interesting and by and large fun to shoot but the average American consumer tends toward the bland and predictable with a bandwagon effect coming into play in most cases.

This tendency isn't limited to firearms, either. For example, American Idol is now in its, what, billionth season, Nickelback is still a profitable band, and on the day the sun finally expands to engulf the Earth, Some schlub will eat the last ever Big Mac. In spite of all three of the above products being about as exciting as unseasoned meatloaf, they make companies a mint.

What does this mean for us guys who are thoroughly bored every time a manufacturer releases yet another AR15cheapboltactionpolymerpistol? It means we have to find a way to make enough money to afford the niche market. Just as a guy who now wants a drilling of decent quality will have to pay several months' salary, in the near future, the guy who wants a pistol caliber carbine will have to do the same.
 
What does this mean for us guys who are thoroughly bored every time a manufacturer releases yet another AR15cheapboltactionpolymerpistol? It means we have to find a way to make enough money to afford the niche market.
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WRONG!!!!

P3040047.jpg
Good luck finding a drum fed STGW57 in any store, at any price (since I'm not selling). You gotta learn to make your own fun, brother :cool:

Gun building is the ultimate hobby for gun tech nerds to get lost in, since even the most capable builder will be slowed sufficiently by the realities of getting the stupid things working (which that drum still isn't :D) to stay entertained. Ultimately, hobbies are about wasting time more than any other resource, and gun building is very good at that. Honestly, it's hard to waste all that much money on it, too, provided you are actually working on projects and not just accumulating. That cost, quality, time thing again.

Just as a guy who now wants a drilling of decent quality will have to pay several months' salary, in the near future, the guy who wants a pistol caliber carbine will have to do the same.
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Case in point, Uzi kits are about 150$, conversion parts another couple dozen, and with proper receiver repair sections (also affordable) can be rebuilt as full or even mini Uzis in a few weekends (or less). For something less practical, Suomi's can be done in a day for just a little more than the price of the kit (150$).

TCB
 
there is no real way to create demand for teh product.

sure the new star wars movie will create some small demand for a c96, but not enough to make them.

some one once said they would do anything for a revolver chambered in 7.62x25. i asked if a single action was good enough. nope. wanted a sw 627 or better.

then again ive seen photos of a colt open top that had a scope mounted on the barrel.

its what you want out of it. its why people have "put up" with somewhat inacurate replicas of falling block rifles. 900 versus 3 grand helps alot.
 
I suspect if Walther/Umarex made a .22 cal C96 they would fly off the shelves. Heck I'd buy one.

The detective special is another classic, though the magnum carry was the same size, easier to mfg and could take more powerful ammo. I am encouraged by Colt testing the waters with a 1903 re-issue, it's a bold move, even in small numbers.

I'd like Ruger to issue another run of 44 mag Vaqueros.
 
Jason_W said:
I'm not sure that any amount of marketing could make guns such as the ones you profitable.

Don't get me wrong, I think such guns are interesting and by and large fun to shoot but the average American consumer tends toward the bland and predictable with a bandwagon effect coming into play in most cases.

This tendency isn't limited to firearms, either. For example, American Idol is now in its, what, billionth season, Nickelback is still a profitable band, and on the day the sun finally expands to engulf the Earth, Some schlub will eat the last ever Big Mac. In spite of all three of the above products being about as exciting as unseasoned meatloaf, they make companies a mint.

What does this mean for us guys who are thoroughly bored every time a manufacturer releases yet another AR15cheapboltactionpolymerpistol? It means we have to find a way to make enough money to afford the niche market. Just as a guy who now wants a drilling of decent quality will have to pay several months' salary, in the near future, the guy who wants a pistol caliber carbine will have to do the same.
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I would agree. It takes strengths in several different areas. It takes extremely flexible and capable manufacturing and distribution abilities. Not a single firearms maker strikes me as being a truly world class manufacturer. Not a single one, not when compared to how other companies operate in far more competitive environments. Part of this is due to artificial (governmental) constraints on the market and how gun manufacturers can operate. Another part is the limited competition, and therefore the limited incentive to truly improve.
 
Since 1956 or so I felt that a .22 Wolverine would be Buck Rogers cool, but I have a Ruger Mark II that just hasn't stopped with almost 30 years use (purchase date Feb 1987).

On the Luger: "It has beauty and nostalgia but was not very reliable."

At the local vintage and modern military matches there are shooters who use Lugers (one of the best competitors uses a 7.65mm Luger formerly Finnish issue). I have not observed reliablity problems. Course of fire is 30 rounds, three 10 shot targets, for score (not counting foulers), seven matches between Mar and October, year after year. Some shoot the same pistol in vintage and modern. I cannot say that Luger is "not very reliable" from my observation. Maybe my fellow shooters who shoot Lugers take better care of their guns than average military general issue, but the Luger shooters don't seem to be having problems.

What would keep me from having a new Luger would be what it would cost to make one right to the old standards.
 
I think many of the great old ones like the Colt Woodsman went away for the same reason the pre 64 M 70 and M12's did, they couldn't continue to put ithe handwork into them and still sell them at a price that their targeted buyers could ever afford.
What would a Woodsman Targetsman cost today built exactly as they were back in the 70's? Who could afford them? And who would build them? Are those craftsmen even still alive?
 
"I cannot say that Luger is "not very reliable" from my observation. Maybe my fellow shooters who shoot Lugers take better care of their guns than average military general issue, but the Luger shooters don't seem to be having problems."
Keeping the guns clean is hard when the whole action flips open, and it is even harder to take the thing apart and clean it out when dirtied. Not an issue for the target shooter, but very detrimental in field conditions.

TCB
 
They weren't selling at the volume necessary to meet the expectations/projections of the assorted marketing departments.
 
Aragon said:
I suggest you don't understand this thread...
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You're right, I didn't.

Ohio has some asinine hunting laws.
They limit a person to straight walled cartridges when hunting deer with a rifle.
So these pistol carbines you mentioned would be perfect for that.
I take my post back, sorry.
 
I don't see much point in pistol carbines either. If am going to carry a rifle or carbine, I want in a rifle caliber. They make pistols to shoot pistol cartridges. You get a little more power but unless you are restricted by hunting laws they make no sense at all. That is except for the few that do buy them, not many think they are good for much.
 
d2wing said:
I don't see much point in pistol carbines either. If am going to carry a rifle or carbine, I want in a rifle caliber. They make pistols to shoot pistol cartridges. You get a little more power but unless you are restricted by hunting laws they make no sense at all. That is except for the few that do buy them, not many think they are good for much.
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And they're so very wrong.
 
+1

A light, compact pumper gun in the magnum .357 would tickle my whistle! Would be a great companion to a GP revolver.
 
d2wing said:
I don't see much point in pistol carbines either. If am going to carry a rifle or carbine, I want in a rifle caliber. They make pistols to shoot pistol cartridges. You get a little more power but unless you are restricted by hunting laws they make no sense at all. That is except for the few that do buy them, not many think they are good for much.
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So how do you Splain the ubiquity of the MP5?
 
I'd like to see.....

....the Ruger Old Army make a comeback. Particularly the short barreled version.

My next pick would be the Star DK. The only sort of version of this out now is the Sig 238 HD. All steel frame. Would like to see an affordable one us working guys can afford. Seems like every time one of these pocket rockets is available to me it happens after I buy something else!:banghead: And I mean EVERY TIME one comes up! And I mean all the variations, Iver Johnson Pony, FI and the few others, doesn't matter, they were all made by Star.
 
If .32 Auto were a much more popular round, the Sauer 38H handgun. Staff decided to flee from the Soviet Army in '45.
A shame that it was not produced after the end of WW2.

Some of the characteristics were incorporated into the Sig-Sauer 230/232.
 
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JMS920 said:
I think many of the great old ones like the Colt Woodsman went away for the same reason the pre 64 M 70 and M12's did, they couldn't continue to put ithe handwork into them and still sell them at a price that their targeted buyers could ever afford.
What would a Woodsman Targetsman cost today built exactly as they were back in the 70's? Who could afford them? And who would build them? Are those craftsmen even still alive?
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I think Ruger took out competitors with the success of their simple, cheap and excellent MK I/II/III. In addition to the Colt Woodsman/Challenger/Huntsman/Targetsman, the Whitney Wolverine feel by the wayside, as did the Browning Medalist and Hi-Standard target pistols.

On the other hand, Browning responded with their Buck Mark line and S&W continues to make their Model 41 which competed directly with Colt's most expensive Woodsman Match Target.
 
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