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Think before you speak

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by test drive, May 9, 2017.

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  1. test drive

    test drive Member

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    I'm a cwp instructor for SC and as I prepare for a class I'm reminded of something that happened to me back in 2009 in one of my first classes. The question of gun quality and what I thought of Hi Point firearms. I gave my opinion based on what I had seen through the years Wich was not a pretty picture. Unknown to me at the time a young lady that was taking the class had a Hi Point to use for weapons qualification. She was a single mom that had left her abusive husband and moved to SC. She worked 3 jobs to support her and her daughter. She worked at the grocery store, night shift at the gas station on the bad side of town and cleaned houses in between. She had little education and those were her only type options not that there's anything wrong with that but money was tight. Later when we got to weapons qual she came up to me and apologized for having such a "Bad gun" and I knew at that moment I had shattered her self confidence after all she had overcome to get to where she was. Well as to be expected she did not do very well with qualification and a lot of it was my fault. After everyone else shot I ask her to try again with one of my range revolvers a older but very nice Rossi M88. We went over some pointers and she had no problems passing. Knowing she needed protection for her and her daughter and after seeing the grin on her face I had to go a step further to correct my wrong. I told her I was looking for a Hi Point as a demonstrator for class and would she do a one for one trade , my revolver for her used HI Point. And she was thrilled. Not being professional that day cost me but I slept very good that night. And to this day every Christmas without fail we get a card from her and her daughter. So next time your bad mouthing someone's equipment or whatever stop and be professional.
     
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  2. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Sound advice.

    We need more professionals in the industry.

    Thanks for the reminder.
     
  3. Solomonson

    Solomonson Member

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    Why was it "to be expected"? Because she used a Hi-Point pistol to qualify? What was the problem? Was it not properly sighted?
     
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  4. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Heh.

    I guess I have a different take on being a professional. I won't avoid telling people they have a bad gun, especially if it's a ring of fire gun. Those they don't even get to shoot. Hi-points I do stress are not very good guns, but also point out that they are the choice of a lot of people that are down on their luck or not as fortunate as others, not everyone can get an STI, and that with practice many of it's deficiencies can be overcome.
     
  5. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    That was a very nice thing to do, and while I am sure you could have been more tactful, you should never hesitate to give your opinion when it comes to the quality of something someone may bet their life on one day (assuming it's founded in experience and not just "my buddy had a problem with one" or "I heard" stories). You can find plenty of videos online of them working really well, and going through torture tests, but you can certainly find some where they have plenty of problems.
     
  6. TomJ
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    TomJ Contributing Member

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    OP, kudos to you for making it right. In regards to telling people they have a bad gun as mentioned in post 4, what's the upside to doing that? If a gun is not safe to shoot the owner obviously needs to be made aware of that, and if it's being used in a training class the instructor is correct in not letting the gun be used. If it's just not up to someone's standards nothing is gained by speaking ill of the gun.
     
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  7. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    This is true, and can be included in pretty much any thread, about pretty much any gun.

    I've heard of safety issues with some of the "low" guns, such as the Jimenez J/A Nine, and some of the Davis/Cobra/Lorcin models. But the stories on the Hi-Points have eluded me. All I ever seem to hear (read) on them are that they are crude, cheap, ugly, clunky, and utterly reliable. I just haven't heard that they are inherently unsafe. Are they?

    I like how the OP handled it, though.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    OP - well done, sir.
     
  9. svtruth

    svtruth Member

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    I'll remember your line "stop and be a professional"
    very nice
     
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  10. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    I've heard the same thing. On these forums, nothing gets my gall more than someone flippantly saying "just save up another $150 and get a real gun". To some people that is not an option but some people just don't get it. They think everyone can just pull money out of their backside at will. Some people like food or heat more than they like a more accepted gun. Hi Points are fine for those who cannot afford anything more. Bad rapping them because you are a gun snob only makes the person putting them down feel better about their better choices. It does nothing for the person who doesn't have a better choice. As the OP pointed out, it can do more harm than good.
     
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  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Indeed!
     
  12. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    We need more gun owners with this mindset. Good on you.

    And the title of this thread is well warranted for ALL threads and responses on here, myself included.
     
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  13. Milt1

    Milt1 Member

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    Excellent test drive, excellent!
     
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  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    The only Hi Point I have shot is miserably unreliable.
    I have urged the owner to test the claims of effective "customer service"
     
  15. Mayvik

    Mayvik Member

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    I would rather have a HP..or Jennings or a BP single shot..than a sock full of nickels.
    There are no style points in self defense. I would say the old "Fear the man who only owns one gun" could be appended with "and run fast and far if it is a well worn Hi Point."
     
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  16. BullSlinger

    BullSlinger Member

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    I have been shooting handguns for a bunch of years. Forty five plus and have owned low end and high end guns.
    Ever hear of RG? Cheap as they come, brand new cost me $23.95, saw a friends fall apart while shooting. I own several Colts, S&W, Kimber Ruger, Glock, Spring Field and bunch of others.You get the idea. I also own several Hi Point Pistols and Carbines.

    The Hi Points I have picked up in the past few years. They are ugly, they are inexpensive, a bit clunky and cause snickers to come out of the mouths of my shooting companions while on the range. I have found them to be accurate, and very reliable. I have one in the truck and one in the boat. If they are stolen from their vehicle safes I'm not out a lot of money. They are a lot of fun to shoot and if I happen to get it muddy or filled with sand I don't have a stroke cuz it's not a thousand dollar gun or a collectors item. And when it comes down to it I would stake my life on one if needed for self defense. Hi Point also has a life time warranty.

    The quality of a fire arm has nothing to do with the price paid, what happens to be Tac-Ti-Cool at the moment or is printed in the paid for reviews in the assorted gun magazines in circulation.
     
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  17. ontarget

    ontarget Member

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    I typically purchase lower priced guns. Then I typically use those guns to outshoot pretty much everyone I go shooting with.
    Once at an invitational shoot put on by an AR15 manufacturer another attendee saw how I was shooting and asked me if the guns we were shooting were worth the money. I said the rifles were very high quality, and would be money well spent for someone in the market for a 1500.00 AR15. I then told him that I can shoot just as well with my 500.00 DPMS. Cost and cosmetics does not equal bullseyes or reliability.
     
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  18. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    A good night's sleep is always welcome, and I have to think that Rossi M88 Revolver liked its new home!
     
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  19. Kaeto

    Kaeto Member

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    Test Drive you sir, are a credit to gun owners everywhere.
     
  20. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    And that is how a real man takes responsibility for his own mistakes; he goes and fixes them. Well done sir.
     
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  21. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    To the OP - very well done, indeed. Your opinion of cheap guns is likely spot on, but you recognize what effect it had on that woman.
     
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  22. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    My experience has been the same as yours, crude, cheap, ugly, clunky and very reliable. I had heard enough bashing of Hi Points on various forums that I decided to get one for myself. A $120 experiment seemed cheap to me. I found that it's surprisingly accurate and has been as reliable as any other handgun I've owned and I trust it enough to leave one in my garage. If it rusts, who cares, it's a gun I spent $120 on!

    I was impressed enough with Hi Point's value that I picked up a carbine, and it's been just as reliable as the pistol. But I'm not familiar with any "unsafe" stories. You know what firearm I HAVE heard some unsafe stories about? Glocks. And the one I owned experienced 3 jams in the 2,000 rounds I put through it. I considered that unreliable enough that I sold it.
     
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  23. buckhorn_cortez

    buckhorn_cortez Member

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    Uh..huh...that's what we hear all the time on Internet gun forums. I just figure the people you're shooting with aren't very good. When you win a regional IPSC or USPSA championship with "those guns" - then I'm a believer. Until then, the claims fall into the camp fire stories after everyone has had four beers...the fish get bigger too...
     
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  24. vito

    vito Member

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    I doubt that too many gun instructors are shattering the confidence of new shooters by badmouthing their gun, and that is a good thing. I think the real problem is with ignorant or unscrupulous clerks in gun stores who the untrained shooter or potential shooter thinks is an expert. I have heard a gun store clerk telling a tiny, frail, elderly woman that nothing less than a 45acp is acceptable for self defense, and when she said she wanted a revolver because she was told that they are more reliable, the clerk suggested a 44magnum! Right or wrong I intervened and said that the 44magnum was likely more than she could handle, certainly more than she could comfortably handle, and that a 38 Special that could handle +p was more than adequate for keeping by her bedside at home. Once when I was looking at a Glock 36 in a large gun store, the clerk kept telling me that Glocks are "just plastic junk" and that I should really consider this nice Kimber he wanted to sell me. And on and on. So I praise the OP for correcting the comment that might have left the woman unsure of herself with a perfectly adequate handgun, but wish there were ways to get good info out to the general public so that they are not at the mercy of callous or ignorant store clerks.
     
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  25. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Wrong. The truth is the truth, regardless of how anyone feels about it, good or bad. IMHO, people should have all the information possible, even when it's not what they want to hear. This is only a question of delivery. Nothing wrong with owning or using a cheap gun but do so with your eyes open.

    I'm sorry but calling someone a snob because they're honest about cheap guns is like calling them a racist because they don't believe in welfare. I'm tired of this politically correct nonsense and this is just political correctness in the guise of a class war. As if getting offended or hurt feelings are the worst things that could happen. Getting yourself and/or your family killed is a whole lot worse than getting your feelings hurt. I'd rather someone hurt my feelings telling me I bought a piece of junk and needed a better tool than to placate me with false confidence in a tool that might not get the job done. Too much at stake here. I applaud the OP for doing a good deed but to the above quoted post, this "snob" would buy the lady in question an entry-level S&W or Ruger before I'd lie to her about the HiPoint.
     
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