Thinking about replacing a Kahr P-9 ...

[goon]

Although my Kahr has been an excellent carry gun for about the last 3 or 4 years, I have come to the conclusion that there are a few things I don't like about it:

- It's not much fun to shoot. I only shoot a couple mags through it every few months just to make sure I can still hit with it. Even with the limited practice, keeping my shots inside the 9 ring at 25 yards isn't that hard. But I'd rather have something more pleasant to shoot because I figure that being able to shoot more means I'll be a better marksman with it.
- It doesn't really fit my hand very well. Slim is great for CCW but since I can't change the grips on it I'm stuck with a thin polymer grip that doesn't fit my large hands. I'd like something that I can change to fit me better. I have tried Hogue Handall's in the past but I don't like how they slide around during recoil or carry so that isn't really an option for me.
- It's small enough to carry a lot of the time, but not so small that I can carry it anywhere, anytime.

I'm thinking about selling or trading it for a Kahr K-9 or maybe a J-frame .38 or CZ-83 to take care of the first two problems. The K-9 would probably be the best option so I could keep my spare mags and holster and just have a little heavier gun to soak up recoil and the ability to change the grips.
Can anyone give me a comparison about what the K-9 is like in terms of comfort at being shot for longer periods? What aftermarket grip options are there?

To over come the last problem, I'm thinking about a Kel-Tec P-32. Although I wouldn't consider them anywhere near "adequate", they are still better than a sharp stick.
The ones I have shot were remarkably accurate little guns for what they are. I wouldn't shed any tears about having one in my pocket and it will probably be at least as useful as the other, larger guns that I have to leave at home.

Any thoughts?

 

[wally]

I think the K9 to practice with and the P9 to carry is a good setup. I have a PM40 for carry and a KM40 for practice, but for the last couple of years I've been using a CW9 for practice for the much cheaper ammo. The extra weight helps.

Used K9 are pretty easy to find as the trend is to trade them in for the lighter Polymer guns.

A .38Special J-frame and a CZ83 are downgrades in terms of power. The CZ83 is a good bit larger than your P9 and being a blowback .380 not as soft shooting as you might expect.

I think more frequent shorter shooting sessions will get your skill up faster than less frequent but longer sessions will.

I try to run 50 rounds thru my CW9 at least once a week.

--wally.

 

[Neener Neener]

I am looking at a Kahr for a CCW piece, among a few others. Let me know if you are wanting to get rid of it, as I might be interested.

 

[dfariswheel]

The K9 is rather famous at the big shooting schools, because it's one of the very few "micro guns" that's comfortable to shoot for long periods.

I read an article in which one owner of a shooting school said that most micro gun shooters were worn out by the end of the first day, and often had to be given a loaner gun to finish the course with.

He said that K9 owners were still going fresh and strong by the end of the class.
To many of us, the K9 grip feels like a small Browning HP, and just seems to be easier to shoot than a lot of small guns.

 

[goon]

Neener Neener - I'll try to keep you in mind.
I don't really want to get rid of it per se.
It's been a great gun and I have full confidence in its reliability and accuracy.
But I am thinking very hard about stepping over to an all steel model.
For my CCW uses, the extra weight wouldn't hurt any.
I'll probably try to trade somewhere in my area first so I can test fire anything I'm considering trading for.
(The last online deal I did on a gun resulted in my getting screwed by a THR member so I'm a little hesitant to try that again.)

Wally - you have a good idea but I can't really afford both. At this point in my life it's kind of an "either/or" decision.
I could probably afford the extra $200 or so for a used P-32 (especially since they'll go places where the Kahr wouldn't) but not the extra $500-$800 for a second Kahr.
I think I probably will try to go with the Kahr though. I'm already familiar with their use and like I said, I already have accessories. I considered the .380 because I shot a friend's .380 Makarov and it wasn't at all unpleasant. I could have shot it all day without even the slightest discomfort. Even the old 9x18 Mak I used to have didn't have quite as stout of recoil as my Kahr.
It's not exactly bad or painful, but I also don't want to shoot more than 3 or so mags at a time from it.
I'm not terribly worried about stepping down to a .380 because I still think that 3 or 4 .380's will stop just about as well as 3 or 4 9mm's. The downside is that it would mean another caliber of ammunition I'd have to worry about.
I think I will skip the J-frame though.
Just never been much good with a revolver...

dfariswheel - thanks. I'm thinking very hard about seeing what I can do with a trade of some sort. I appreciate your input.

 

[CPshooter]

I can see where you are coming from, but switching from a P9 to a K9 or a snubby revolver would just be switching a "problem" for a "problem."

9mm doesn't have much recoil at all. I don't think going from a P9 to a heavier K9 is a wise choice. The size of the grip is negligable too. In the end you will be getting a heavier gun for a SLIGHT increase in shootability. Kahrs are all-day carry guns. They aren't meant to be all-day range guns. A J-frame revolver basically means the end of fun range sessions and decent accuracy...all for a questionable increase in reliability. Not to mention a 5rd capacity...yuck. Then again, I'm an auto kind of guy. The cylinder of a J-frame revolver is also fatter than your Kahr.

I would just keep the P9 and add another gun to your collection later when you can afford it. I've learned my lesson and found out first hand that selling your handguns only leads to regret

A Ruger LCP .380 is now available for around $300 dollars. It is THE perfect .380 pocket gun IMO. If you want "go anywhere" carry the LCP is perfect.

You can find a used Glock or XD for around 400 bucks. These are much more versatile guns than those made by Kahr. All-day shooting comfort is never an issue with a service sized gun like a Glock or XD. Greater magazine capacity and the ability to use LED tactical lights makes them great choices for home defense as well.

 

[usp9]

Can anyone give me a comparison about what the K-9 is like in terms of comfort at being shot for longer periods? What aftermarket grip options are there?

The K9 is easier to shoot but not what I'd call an "all day gun". A much easier shooter IMO is the T9, but the K9 is quality and reliable.

Aftermarket grips are limited to Hogue wood grips sold by Kahr and the original rubber grips. A Hogue Handall works well and I think A-Grip makes stick-ons.

You may want to try the Hogue Handall on your P9 before trading it in. It makes a big difference for only $6.95.

 

[goon]

USP9 - Are you aware of any way to keep the handall from sliding around?
I've used them before and they would never stay put. That's about the only thing I have against them.

One other thing -I bought it used and have no idea how many rounds were fired before that. I've probably put 700 or so rounds through it.
How long do Kahrs get between recoil springs?

CP shooter - I already have a S&W M&P9 that's a much better range gun than the Kahr.
But I'd prefer to be able to practice enough with my CCW gun to be reasonably competent with it.
It is the one that I'm most likely to need to use so it's probably the one I should be the most capable with.

 

[makarovnik]

Don't do it.

 

[romma]

Sounds like you have a nice accurate piece to me. I would think a couple few rounds at the range would be about all you would want to stay competent with your CCW... That's all I have ever done.

Maybe you are just a little bored, and want to try something else??

 

[Josh Aston]

Hairspray will keep the HandAll from slipping. As for the recoil of the K9 vs the P9. Night and day difference IMO. The K9 is like shooting a full size gun, with the caveat that the grip is really a bit too small.

 

[saltydog452]

My K9 and P9 are primarially house guns with tritium sights. The K-9 gets shot more, the P-9 is carried more, especially in deep Texas summer. I can see the sights on both w/o having to call for a 'time out' to find my reading glasses.

For home security use, the DAO system makes more sense to me.

Like you, I like the compatability of accessories.

The recoil springs get changed more often than necessary. 500 rds, or less. Midnight-dark-thirty would not be a good time to be concerned with weak recoil springs. Mine get changed every time I change the oil in my bride's Granny Van. Springs are/were 7.00 each from Kahr.

At my stage in life, my memory does occasionally need a crutch to activite whats left of functioning brain cells. The oil change is that, just another way to 'remember'.

I like playing around with BHPs and Commanders, so the Kahrs don't see as much range time as they deserve.

I have regertted almost every gun that I have sold. With that in mind, and the financial beating that you'd take from selling and trading, I'd try to buy a used K-9 and keep the P-9 and accessories.

A K-9 is one of those products that can't be much improved on, so it'd be kinda unlikely that Bubba has smithed on it with a rat-tail file and a cross-peen hammer at the kitchen table. In other words, a used K-9 might not be as much a gamble as some other models.

When the kids were all on the domestic payroll, all of us who had a CHL used the same pistol to qualify...the K-9.

I like mine...they aren't the best thing in the world since grits and tomato gravy, but they do suit me and mine just dandy.

Thats my, rather lengthly, two cents worth. Your mileage and circumstances may differ.

salty

 

[The Bushmaster]

And yer sellin' it for how much?

 

[dfariswheel]

An alternative to the Hand-All is the ORIGINAL "Glock sock".
This is a section of bicycle inner tube stretched over the butt.
Unlike the Hand-All, the tight inner tube will not move on the grip, and it's certainly cheap to replace.

My early stainless K9 owner's manual states that the K9 recoil spring should be changed every 2000 rounds.
Personally, I think 1500 to 2000 rounds, depending on the gun.

 

[goon]

Maybe you are just a little bored, and want to try something else??

I'll admit to having done that before and I've even had regrets.
But the truth is that I don't shoot this gun much because I can't really control it very well.
The normal fix for that is to shoot it more. I don't shoot it more because it's unpleasant to shoot, which causes me to not shoot it well...
It's a cycle that isn't going to go away.

It isn't the recoil exactly because the recoil really isn't that bad. It is more noticeable than a full sized gun, but not unpleasant by itself and not as bad as the 9mm Mak or .357 snubby that I had before (and I shot both of them pretty well).
I can't really place what it is, but there is something decidedly not fun about shooting it.
Guns that aren't fun to shoot don't get shot much.
Less practice with a gun that I bet my life on is a bad thing.
I figured that whatever it is that makes the P-9 not fun to shoot might be mitigated by the steel frame of the K-9, which adds some extra weight and gives a more secure way of attaching more comfortable grips.
But it isn't boredom. I don't have the same perspective on guns that I once did - I try not to buy and sell on a whim anymore.
Function is beauty and the P-9 is an excellent gun in that regard. I have no complaints with the function of this one and wouldn't ever consider selling it if I could get through more than three mags at a time without asking myself "What the hell is it about this gun that makes me not want to shoot more than three mags at a time?"

From my point of view, even if I did keep the P-9 and buy a K-9, I'd still always shoot the K-9 and probably carry it more. The extra few ounces wouldn't hurt me any in that regard and if I could shoot it more I'd be more comfortable with my abilities. I'd probably carry it exclusively and leave the P-9 in storage. It still wouldn't do me any good.
Besides, I can't afford both.

I wouldn't really want to sell it outright if I decide to replace it because I probably wouldn't get enough on a sale to replace it. Trading with someone fairly local would be preferable because then we could meet at my range and each try a few rounds to know we were both getting reliable guns that are exactly what we want.
Plus if I just sold it I'd be without a CCW sized handgun and I don't want to go there.

I don't think this gun has had anywhere near 1500 rounds through it yet. I've probably only put 400 or so max through it (maybe 500) and it hadn't been shot much (if at all) when I bought it.

 

[owlhoot]

Believe me there is a big difference in recoil between the steel and polymer Kahr guns.

Today being a lovely spring day, I spent it on the range. I put 400 sv rounds through my Kahr MK9. Right now my hand is saying, let's go back and do it again tomorrow.

I have ten different 9mm's. The MK9 is the one I enjoy the most. The larger K9 would probably be even better. But I am extremely happy with the MK9 for a carry gun as well as for a range gun.

So I say trade the P9 for the K9. You will find many folks who will make the trade and pay you a little boot. Everybody wants the light weight versions.

 

[Prototypeperson]

What about a Glock 26 or a Springfield XD Sub-compact 9mm? The double stack mag will fill your hand better, and give you more ammo, in addition to weighing more than your 14 ounce Kahr. Less recoil, larger grip, and more ammo.

 

[goon]

I've thought about that too only I was considering an M&P9 compact.
But I really do like the compact little package that the P9 provides.
I think I do eventually want to make the switch, but it will probably have to wait a month or so.
Just won't have the time to do it before then.

 

[hank327]

I have a K9 and it is a very comfortable pistol to shoot. The stock grips suit me just fine and I too think the pistol feels like a mini Hi-Power. While I haven't tried to shoot it all day, I've put a 100 to 150 rds through it while at the range ( I take two or three different pistols to the range) and never felt any discomfort at all.

I never liked the feel of the P9 exactly because the thinness of the grips. The weight of the K9 is not a factor for me as I carry it in a good holster and belt combo. If you like the P9, I'm sure you'll love the K9. I'd look for a used K9 if money is an issue as they are a very solid gun. Mine is one of the electroless nickle models that I bought used 9 or 10 years ago and it has never given me a problem.

 

[elsullo]

Trade It!

I have the K9, first generation all steel, with the glorious rubber grips, and you will NOT regret getting one. These semi-soft grips seem to grip back on my hand! Most people think they want light weight for a carry gun, but like you I prefer a heavier gun that my HAND has no fear of so that I can train more! I too have had slip-on grip sleeves slide around on hot days, ruining my accuracy. There is dramatically less recoil felt in the hand with a heavier gun. My K9 has never tired my hand after shooting 100 rounds at a time. Yes, its heavier to carry, but my hand has full confidence in it................elsullo