This bullet/cartridge combination always surprises me

[vaalpens]

I have not been testing any of my reloads for a while, but today I had time and I caught up with most of my backlog of testing. I tested 30 different loads today, and probably spent about 4 hours outside in the National Forest. What a beautiful day in the North West.

The testing results were ok, but I did not see any results that I could put in the WOW category. At some point the sun was in a bad sport and I started seeing missing and bad chrono readings. At this time I had one cartridge, 5 loads still to test. Tried a few things with the chrono, but just could not get any consistent readings. I made the decision to just test the last loads even though I would not have any velocity readings.

The last loads were my 357sig loads, with AA#5 using the RMR 147gr Match Winner bullet. For me it seems to be that the RMR 147gr and 357sig is a combination that lends itself to be accurate loads. The previous time I used the bullet was with CFE Pistol, with very accurate results. I had some AA#5, so I decided to try this combination also.

After shooting all 5 different loads, I realized that I did not see any super accurate load, but I also did not see any below par accuracy loads. They were all very similar. The end result basically was that I saw groupings from .59" to .98", with an average of .78". In my book that pretty good for 5 different loads. The test was done at 15 yards.

There were a few velocity readings in the 1060fps to 1080fps range, but I could not tie it to any particular load. Following are the test results (without velocities).

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.1gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.86"
Test Date: 09/14/2023



357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.2gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.59"
Test Date: 09/14/2023



357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.3gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.63"
Test Date: 09/14/2023


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.4gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.98"
Test Date: 09/14/2023


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.5gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.75"
Test Date: 09/14/2023


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, TCFPMW, AA5, 7.6gr, CCI500
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.84"
Test Date: 09/14/2023

 

[41 Mag]

Nice groups. I've had similar results with AA5 over the years. Usually nothing overly spectacular but constantly pretty decent across a wide range of bullet weights and calibers.

 

[Howa 9700]

In previous posts, you mentioned groups were shot off a rest using a scope? Same?

Have a 357 Sig I'm loading for, have AA# 5, but 124 gr RMR nukes vs, the 147. Have you tested the 124s?

 

[DMW1116]

I’m pushing the same bullets from a 9mm so they’re probably only going about 850 or 900. I found at least 2 powders that are very accurate with those particular bullets.

 

[vaalpens]

I’m pushing the same bullets from a 9mm so they’re probably only going about 850 or 900. I found at least 2 powders that are very accurate with those particular bullets.

Thanks for the information. I have never enjoyed loading the 147gr bullet in 9mm, so I will probably just use it in 357sig. It seems to work well for me in 357sig.

 

[vaalpens]

In previous posts, you mentioned groups were shot off a rest using a scope? Same?

Have a 357 Sig I'm loading for, have AA# 5, but 124 gr RMR nukes vs, the 147. Have you tested the 124s?

Yes, I am still using the cheap BSA scope and a rest.

I have not tested the 124gr nukes with AA5 yet, but have done limited testing with other powders. Here is one result using CFE Pistol.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cfe-pistol-and-357sig.877432/

 

[vaalpens]

Nice groups. I've had similar results with AA5 over the years. Usually nothing overly spectacular but constantly pretty decent across a wide range of bullet weights and calibers.

Thanks! AA5 is new for me, but it seems to be a good average powder. I have tested a few in 9mm which shot well in my P365X.

 

[DMW1116]

Thanks for the information. I have never enjoyed loading the 147gr bullet in 9mm, so I will probably just use it in 357sig. It seems to work well for me in 357sig.

I found my 9mm pistols like the heavy bullets after testing some 147 grain XTP vs some 115 grain XTP. I'm sure there are plenty that go the other way. The only exception is the Lehigh stuff I've tried, but they're different.

 

[vaalpens]

I found my 9mm pistols like the heavy bullets after testing some 147 grain XTP vs some 115 grain XTP. I'm sure there are plenty that go the other way. The only exception is the Lehigh stuff I've tried, but they're different.

I can understand that the 147gr bullet does well in 9mm, but for me I just never liked loading the 147gr in 9mm. maybe just because it takes up more space and it seemed to be a tight fit. For 357sig it is perfect since you have the bigger case and setback is always something to watch out for. Grouping consistently also helps.

 

[Thomasss]

You said no WOW groups. Those look very nice. .63 is nothing to cry about. What more do you want? Another way to say that is have you tried a different bullet? OR... An armorer vet of mine said the difference in a WOW group can often be the way you aim at the target. Even the way your head rests on the stock and the way you look down the barrel. You must be very consistent in the way you hold the gun and release the sear.

 

[vaalpens]

You said no WOW groups. Those look very nice. .63 is nothing to cry about. What more do you want? Another way to say that is have you tried a different bullet? OR... An armorer vet of mine said the difference in a WOW group can often be the way you aim at the target. Even the way your head rests on the stock and the way you look down the barrel. You must be very consistent in the way you hold the gun and release the sear.

Thanks for the comments. A clover leave grouping will be nice, but at 15 yards and with my eyes, probably not in the cards anymore. I can't just blame the eyes since I am using a scope, and there is definitely some movement during the shooting process.

I document and rank all my results. The .59" and .63" are ranked overall #21 and #24, and ranked within 357sig #8 and #9. Overall I am very pleased with the results. These loads will be tested again to see if the results are repeatable.

 

[murf]

have you ever tried a mag primer with that load?

murf

 

[vaalpens]

have you ever tried a mag primer with that load?

murf

No, I have not. I normally wait until I have a specific accurate load, then I'll try different primers. Normally I wouldn't use magnum primers, but I have some match primers that I try when fine tuning things.

 

[Thomasss]

I can't just blame the eyes since I am using a scope, and there is definitely some movement during the shooting process.

Scopes are included in my comments. People don't understand, even with scopes, the term "cheek weld". When I site in someone elses gun, especially with a scope, my line of site most often will be different than their's just because of the shape of my face. Now for your test, load the magazine full and without moving your face, concentrate on looking exactly down the scope the same way with every shot. It's very hard because I shoot hunting guns And aiming the scopes also rely on wearing hunting clothing which changes the way I look down the scope to begin with.. Then think about breathing, ...then think about squeezing. I've even heard of people thinking about heart beats. I've seen the difference with the way my buddy, the vet shoots. And then he will tell me which kind of flinch he was working on with the last group.
Another thought for you. Set up a set of targets, one target for each different test load. Shoot 1 cartridge of each test group in a specific target and move on to the nest test group and shoot one those cartridges in the nest target, etc. Then repeat starting at the beginning target again for cartridge number 2, etc. Why? By shooting in this sequence, you will eliminate the possibility of flinching on any one target more than once. You want the ideal cartridge load without that sudden gust of wind or your ichy nose causing multiple deviations or you getting tired of shooting on any one target.
Another thought you might try comes from my eye doctor. He says before releasing the sear, intentionally blink your scope eye several times. This will relax the eyeball, clear your vision of stress and clean your eye for an exact sharp image. He found this technique works while testing older people that stare at the same eye chart for a long time, so he can determine the right settings for their eyes. Ya ever get your eyes checked and the doc says which is better #1 or #2 and you arn't sure? Blink your eyes.

 

[vaalpens]

Scopes are included in my comments. People don't understand, even with scopes, the term "cheek weld". When I site in someone elses gun, especially with a scope, my line of site most often will be different than their's just because of the shape of my face. Now for your test, load the magazine full and without moving your face, concentrate on looking exactly down the scope the same way with every shot. It's very hard because I shoot hunting guns And aiming the scopes also rely on wearing hunting clothing which changes the way I look down the scope to begin with.. Then think about breathing, ...then think about squeezing. I've even heard of people thinking about heart beats. I've seen the difference with the way my buddy, the vet shoots. And then he will tell me which kind of flinch he was working on with the last group.
Another thought for you. Set up a set of targets, one target for each different test load. Shoot 1 cartridge of each test group in a specific target and move on to the nest test group and shoot one those cartridges in the nest target, etc. Then repeat starting at the beginning target again for cartridge number 2, etc. Why? By shooting in this sequence, you will eliminate the possibility of flinching on any one target more than once. You want the ideal cartridge load without that sudden gust of wind or your ichy nose causing multiple deviations or you getting tired of shooting on any one target.
Another thought you might try comes from my eye doctor. He says before releasing the sear, intentionally blink your scope eye several times. This will relax the eyeball, clear your vision of stress and clean your eye for an exact sharp image. He found this technique works while testing older people that stare at the same eye chart for a long time, so he can determine the right settings for their eyes. Ya ever get your eyes checked and the doc says which is better #1 or #2 and you arn't sure? Blink your eyes.

Thanks for all the advice. I will definitely try blinking my eyes. I know toward the end of the shooting, my eyes get tired. Blinking normally helps, but I think I should do it earlier to relax the eyes throughout the shooting.

With the pistol testing, luckily I don't have to worry about the "cheek weld", but I have to try and look through the scope exactly the same way every time. For me I think it comes down to being comfortable behind the rest. This is where I feel I need to improve.

Shooting multiple targets is a great plan since I think it will force you to basically start over and lessen the pressure. I normally have two targets next to each other since they are printed on one piece of paper. I will just need to make sure I load the magazine correctly to make sure each load goes to the correct target.

 

[DMW1116]

I am tempted to try an actual pistol scope now. I always figured I’d be too shaky even off a rest. That was based off my first try with a red dot and the spirited game of racket ball being played inside it. Maybe it’s not as bad as I thought.

 

[vaalpens]

I am tempted to try an actual pistol scope now. I always figured I’d be too shaky even off a rest. That was based off my first try with a red dot and the spirited game of racket ball being played inside it. Maybe it’s not as bad as I thought.

I have a red dot on my P365 with no magnification. There seems to be little to no movement, but for me the target is not that clear. With the scope and 2x magnification, the target is clear, but I can definitely see movement (shaky). This is where I can improve by having a more stable/comfortable base.

 

[Thomasss]

I'm due for new glasses. I'm seriously thinking of getting glasses that will keep my revolver sites sharp instead of a bi-focal for reading. I have 39 inch sleeves. Neither the sites nor the targets are sharp for me. LOL

 

[Dudedog]

I'm due for new glasses. I'm seriously thinking of getting glasses that will keep my revolver sites sharp instead of a bi-focal for reading. I have 39 inch sleeves. Neither the sites nor the targets are sharp for me. LOL

I feel your pain I am in the same boat. Everyone's different but I had glasses made up to make my sights sharp. (measured the distance)
They work well for practice, but not so well for matches where I am running/moving, everything else is to blurry and it gives me a headache to move fast with them on.

We all know getting old is a PITA but the only other alternative is worse.

 

[RashQuestion]

We all know getting old is a PITA but the only other alternative is worse.

From this "Old Timer" to all that subscribe to what @Dudedog said above; Every Day Above Ground Is A GOOD Day!!!

God Bless and be safe out there!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I feel your pain I am in the same boat. Everyone's different but I had glasses made up to make my sights sharp. (measured the distance)
They work well for practice, but not so well for matches where I am running/moving, everything else is to blurry and it gives me a headache to move fast with them on.

We all know getting old is a PITA but the only other alternative is worse.

Yeah, be careful with that. I took a tumble down a flight of stairs at work a few years back because I forgot to take my computer glasses off before running to a meeting. I got vertigo real bad and went down. Just some sore muscles and a sprained wrist but it was not something I want to try again.