This is how we roll in Utah - video of our shoot

[Hoploholic]

I have to berate you some Corriea. I noticed a number of people shooting on a road. That is a no-no itself, but it gets worse. The road dips and breaks to the left behind the targets so you have no idea what might be back there making its way to the lines of fire. You have some really cool pieces and everyone was having fun. All it takes is one mishap to blow that all to heck though.

 

[Nightcrawler]

PvtPyle was at the Danger Cart...

Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns....ASSEMBLE!

 

[mephisto]

where did this take place? Looks like a nice place to take some ammo and have fun.

 

[OEF_VET]

Man, I REALLY need to visit UT. I'll bring my toys, which aren't nearly as cool as yours, yet.

I'll drag Oleg with me, so he can take pictures.

We can write it all off our taxes as a business expense!

 

[grizz]

I wanted to go soooo badly, but alas, my girlfriend made me go engagement ring shopping, and I have to work 2pm - midnight.

Hopefully next time the shoot will be on my week off (I work 7 on/ 7 off). If so, I'll be there with fists full of cash for belt fed goodness. I'll bring some toys of my own too.

Next time, we should get an old car, drain it of fluids, remove battery, and try to shoot it in half by the end of the weekend.

 

[Correia]

I have to berate you some Corriea. I noticed a number of people shooting on a road. That is a no-no itself, but it gets worse. The road dips and breaks to the left behind the targets so you have no idea what might be back there making its way to the lines of fire. You have some really cool pieces and everyone was having fun. All it takes is one mishap to blow that all to heck though.

Feel free, to berate, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.

The road didn't dip and break behind the targets. We parked vehicles on the roads to block access to the backstop area. (notice the Explorer, that's mine). We took control of an entire valley and blocked off access to an entire mountain to serve as our backstop.

That's why we camped out. We blocked access to the backstop area at the crack of dawn to keep anybody from parking in the rear.

Legally we were okay to shoot on the road. According to Utah law you are supposed to be 100 feet off of a road, but according to the way the laws are interpreted out in the desert, these trails do not meet the normal criteria for a road or highway per Utah law.

When we first started the day's activity, PvtPyle and I gave a safety briefing. The briefing ended with me saying that if I saw anybody do anything stupid, I would personally whoop their *** and toss them the hell off the mountain.

Everybody there was responsible for safety, and anybody could call a ceasefire at anytime. We ran a hot range. Unorganized shoots, with an open invite to the public are by their nature dangerous, and only through serious effort can be kept safe. Overall we had a very safe bunch. A few people got sloppy, and were quickly corrected.

 

[P95Carry]

Larry - GREAT vid

Much was suppressor heaven LOL - and that M1 and the ''tinggg'' was a classic.! I liked that reactive steel target too - nice and simple and effective - that is on my list for a project for next year.

As for Pvt Pyle and 250 rounds well - I wonder who was bending their pocket book for ammo LOL. I'll bet a lotta lead was expended but hey - what a great shoot.

Thx for the chance to share the enjoyment - even if peripherally!

 

[Correia]

And on another note, yes suppresors really are that effective. The audio doesn't do it justice. .223 is my favorite thing to suppress. Imagine what it sounds like with no hearing protection. Then imagine shooting a .22 LR with no hearing protection. That's about what you're hearing.

 

[loki.fish]

All I could hear from the AR-15s was the bolt cycling. I couldn't believe how quiet they were. There is no subsonic rifle ammo other than .22LR, right? For some reason I thought .223 would be a bit louder than that. Makes me want a suppressor even more.

Pity the only thing like that I know of around here is the Knob Creek shoot. I definately wanna shoot a belt fed.

 

[Hoploholic]

I do know what I am talking about. A trail that is not. It is a road and sees significant enough travel to stay clear of vegetation. It also sees regular maintenance as there no runoff ruts. No matter how you blocked the road someone could still have found a way to put foot or atv traffic on it. Your choice of a back stop, or lack thereof, was irresponsible. You cannot rationalize that away. While you may be a moderator on a board and part owner of a CIII business you are still required to conduct yourself with a modicum of common sense.

I also noted that the guy firing the Makarov with the can was doing so while there were others foreward and adjacent to him on what could only very loosely be called a line. Either your RO's were remis in their duty or there were no RO's. As you were operating a range I must assume there were RO's. There are only 4 rules, and they are very simple. Follow them and everyone stays safe. Stray and you are putting yourselves and everyone in the locality at dire risk.

Insult away at your own pleasure, but the facts will remain the same.

 

[OEF_VET]

I also noted that the guy firing the Makarov with the can was doing so while there were others foreward and adjacent to him on what could only very loosely be called a line. Either your RO's were remis in their duty or there were no RO's. As you were operating a range I must assume there were RO's. There are only 4 rules, and they are very simple. Follow them and everyone stays safe. Stray and you are putting yourselves and everyone in the locality at dire risk.

You've obviously never attended any dynamic training. It is possible to conduct a range where firers are not lined up, toeing the line. Such a range just requires A LOT of supervision, and A LOT of common sense. It is not something for beginners, but it is something which can be done with experienced, disciplined, well-trained shooters. Between just Correia, PvtPyle, and Nightcrawler, there was a lot of experience present. Add to those three the other shooters of their experience, and that was likely one of the safest, ad hoc ranges on which you could shoot.

You are watching a video. They were present at the time the firing was being done. If Correia, PvtPyle, or Nightcrawler say that the range was perfectly safe, I have zero doubt that it was. Of course, the guy watching the Super Bowl on TV is likely to be a better quarterback than the guy throwing the ball down the field for the winning team as well.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Hoploholic, I personally don't have a problem with you raising safety concerns where you see them.

The problem is you didn't see them. You weren't there, and you've most likely never been to the site we were shooting at, so you can't possibly know the layout. You're going off of what you see on a hastily edited video, and that's not a lot to go making claims of lack of safety and calling people irresponsible.

By the end of the day there were clusters of people scattered throughout the valley, shooting in different directions. THe one thing they all had in common is, like us, they had a hillside as a backstop. It's par for the course when you go out onto public land to shoot. It's not a range and no one is going to hold your hand. You've got to keep your eyes open.

As for us not toeing the line...it happens. No one swept anyone with a muzzle, and no one was downrange enough to pose a safety concern. One of our ROs is a weapons instructor for some Fed agency; another (PvtPyle) has an Army SF background. There was plenty of experience out there, and we didn't have any real problems. Believe it or not, being a foot farther forward than someone shooting in the same direction as you isn't a safety hazard unless that person is a retard and has no muzzle discipline.

But yes, it was a hot range, and it was live. You had to pay attention.

Anyway, the suppressed .22s sounded like staple guns. We had a suppressed Ruger and a Walther P22 with a can there, and they honestly didn't even sound like firearms. They sounded like a staple gun, or maybe a paintball gun cycling.

 

[lionking]

I think you guys qualify as bonified gun enthusiasts

If I ever make it out to Utah...well I might never leave it.

great vid,thanks

 

[armoredman]

I like the PPsH-41, didn't know any of those were in the US. Must be hideously expensive. Maybe that semi auto clone will come out eventually.

 

[Correia]

Hoplo, you weren't there.

However, present at the shoot we had:

A Utah CCW instructor
A Utah Hunter's Safety instructor
An Army Marksmanship unit instructor
A Department of Homeland Security Firearms instructor
Local law enforcement
3gun match directors

Between them, we had over 100 years of experience running ranges.

We coordinated, and came up with the best solutions that we could. It was an open invite shoot out in the desert. We didn't know each other. It was random strangers off of the internet.

You watched what is basically a hastily edited music video, and now you're the expert?

Considering that, we ran a very safe range. Yes, people do tend to get forward of the line. When that happens, you correct them.

That's why I used the trail as the range demarcation line. It was obvious.

And I don't give a flying crap how you interpret the law in your area. Here in my area, we were fine. The law enforcement that was in charge of enforcing said ordinances had no problem with what we did.

We controlled the backstop as much as possible. Everyone was responsible for calling a ceasefire if there were any signs of movement in the backstop area.

We don't have trees here. So it's kind of hard to sneak up on us.

 

[Correia]

It is a road and sees significant enough travel to stay clear of vegetation. It also sees regular maintenance as there no runoff ruts.

WRONG!!!!

That road is at the top of a very large valley which locals call The Bowl. You need to climb several hundred feet up a rutted dirt road to get to it. It is damn near impossible to access with out a 4x4 or at least something with some clearance. (bravo to George Hill for getting a Ford Contour up there).

We did a ferry service for shooters with out 4x4s. They parked at the bottom and we went and got them.

Trust me, that place has never seen a road grader or gravel truck once ever. Maintenance consists of people driving their trucks on it often enough to kill the sagebrush.

The road we were shooting on did not exist five years ago. I created it by driving across the desert through the same spot until the vegetation died. Yes, that is how it works here. Welcome to Utah.

 

[ChefJeff1]

nice job, rock on!

 

[Hoploholic]

Sorry guys I am just can't buy it. What I saw was pattenly unsafe. If it was unlikely that you might have traffic on that road from atv's or pedestrians, that still does not rule out the possibility. It is the unlikely that will bite you in the hind quaters and get someone hurt. I pray that your shoots remain safe and that you take some of what I have said to heart. All it takes is one oh crap and all you have worked for will belong to someone else as you lose it in civil court over a wrongful death...not to mention the loss of a life. It can happen even in the safest of settings, and complacency is your worst enemy.

As someone noted, live fire dynamic exercises do occur on a daily basis with no ill mishaps...with trained professions supervised by trained professions. So yes, you can have a firing line that is not clearly deliniated...under certain and very controlled circumstances. A pay to spray machine gun shoot, no matter how fun, is not one of those circumstances.

This is my culture and I want to see it prosper. My biggest fear is that I will return from my current stint on Okinawa and the firearms I love will be contraband. We need to look out for each other and take care of each other because of the country is out to get us. Food for thought. Give it serious consideration please.

 

[Correia]

Get off of your high horse Hoplo. Footage of me yelling at people to control their muzzles and keep their fingers off the triggers doesn't make the best music video, but it happened.

Your self-righteousness is killing me.

You weren't there. A whole bunch of us were. Many of us are very experienced.

Accidents happen. Some of the people you are preaching too have had to clean the brains off the walls when there have been accidents. So yes, thanks for the info.

Deal with it and move on.

 

[George Hill]

The trail there does look like a road... I'll give you that, hoplo. But it is not a road. It's not even close to being a road. The reason it isn't is because it is just a bald spot that serves as a starting point for some serious off roading trails. You need a rather serious 4x4 just to get to that point.
I didn't think I'd be able to get my tour up there... and I'm still not sure how I did it... but just because I've got years of wheeling and off road rally under my belt probably helped. Your average shmo parked about 100 feet lower elevation and 200 yards away to the south... what you don't see in the photos.
So don't pass judgement... you were not there... you don't know the area... so just drop it. It was SAFE. Not only were several LEO's in attendance, but another deputy came up because of some one not in our group calling 911 about automatic fire. He rolled up (gawked at the little countour up there) checked everything out, saw it was perfectly safe and sound, and left.
Like larry said, they had control of an valley. It was safe. It was perfectly safe.
And if you don't think so - you are welcome to come out and see the area for yourself. Or google-earth it... it's across utah lake from provo, south of the rock quary. There isn't a road in the whole area save the one that runs along the bank of the lake, and we were 300 yard from that.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I had a lot of fun. As for safety concerns, ad a NRA certified RSO who actually worked at a range(until they shut it down because they sold the armor plate system last year)to the *safety patrol* list....

Yes the firing lines were a little ragged, but NOWHERE near unsafe.

George- Thanks for the sandbag!! Hope she gets her gun soon. How'd my pictures turn out?

 

[PvtPyle]

Sorry guys I am just can't buy it. What I saw was pattenly unsafe. If it was unlikely that you might have traffic on that road from atv's or pedestrians, that still does not rule out the possibility. It is the unlikely that will bite you in the hind quaters and get someone hurt. I pray that your shoots remain safe and that you take some of what I have said to heart. All it takes is one oh crap and all you have worked for will belong to someone else as you lose it in civil court over a wrongful death...not to mention the loss of a life. It can happen even in the safest of settings, and complacency is your worst enemy.

Since you only see part of the video, and really none of the area or how it was blocked off, you really are not in a position of even minimal knowledge to make any statements or assumptions about the area or how we set up the ranges.

As someone noted, live fire dynamic exercises do occur on a daily basis with no ill mishaps...with trained professions supervised by trained professions. So yes, you can have a firing line that is not clearly deliniated...under certain and very controlled circumstances. A pay to spray machine gun shoot, no matter how fun, is not one of those circumstances.

Again, the video does not show the firing line. The pistol and rifles ranges were set up along the ground in a fairly straight line. They did bend around a bit opening the fan a bit. But the fact that you see a Makarov in the video, when there was not one just shows how little you can tell by the video. And the shooter was on the far end of the line actually shooting away from the line at a steel target. But with the cameras position you really can't tell that he was away from the line and angled away. Again, you are commenting on something you really don't know about since you were not there. The angle of the camera can distort things a great deal.

This is my culture and I want to see it prosper. My biggest fear is that I will return from my current stint on Okinawa and the firearms I love will be contraband. We need to look out for each other and take care of each other because of the country is out to get us. Food for thought. Give it serious consideration please.

As the President of FBMG, a Marksmanship and Foreign Weapons Instructor for 19th SFG(A), and a Marksmanship Instructor for the Utah National Guard, when I tell you it was set up in a safe and orderly manner you can take that to the bank. If you choose to believe it is up to you. But if someone did get hurt I am the one that would have to live with it. I have never had anyone hurt due to negligence and don't plan on it anytime soon.

Your comments are welcome but since you were half a world away and not there to see how it was actually laid out, are unfounded and baseless. When you get home you are free to come out and see how we do things. Then you will be in a position to make an educated and informed judgement about the way we roll.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Guys one more thing-

You're in trouble with me now. Letting my wife shoot belt fed stuff was a very bad idea!! Now she knows her wizz-bang stuff is fairly weak in the grand scheme of things, and she's all upset that we(she) can't have one.

But a supressed weapon is now on her shopping list. That little supressed ruger 22/45? Yeah I'm in trouble.

Be seeing you with my Christmas bonus I suppose.........

 

[1KPerDay]

Looked like a blast to me... wish I could have made it. I used to shoot near there all the time until they built all the friggin' houses (down in the valley where The Ranches is now).

 

[mephisto]

Perhaps you could shoot a video of the safety precautions that you implemented. I believe there is someone here that would rather watch that than the bang bang videos. Not me though. Sat Cong.