This is why locks and doors are more important than guns

[45CalPal]

I can think of few strategies that would be less prudent.

"Protecting homes since...? well whenever we domesticated dogs" and with his deep loud bark, the signs posted i have never (nock on wood) been broke into, or even any attempts.

here is just one of the best friends/guard dogs. his name is Sam, he's almost 3yrs, abd weighs (last week) at 138.40 lbs

 

[Kleanbore]

"Protecting homes since...? well whenever we domesticated dogs" and with his deep loud bark, the signs posted i have never (nock on wood) been broke into, or even any attempts.

here is just one of the best friends/guard dogs. his name is Sam, he's almost 3yrs, abd weighs (last week) at 138.40 lbs
View attachment 1053916 View attachment 1053917

Read this and heed:

Read before Posting: Legal Considerations of Posting on the Internet

Those signs could also do you in.

 

[Elkins45]

Well it does not come right out and say that "if you trespass, I will shoot" but the message is pretty clear.
View attachment 1053914

In case anyone wants them too!..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133462466958

No thank you.

Protecting property with deadly force is a crime in almost every state with some very limited exceptions. What you have there is a sign advertising your willingness and premeditation to commit a felony. If you ever shoot someone there’s a fair chance that sign will be used as evidence to send you to prison.

 

[bdickens]

Mere trespassing is not a capital offense.

Neither is breaking and entering (or whatever you legal pedants want to call it; you know what I mean) and neither is theft.

Besides the obvious legal implications (well, obvious to anyone with 3 functioning brain cells), these cute little "we don't call 911" and "Trespassing is the quickest way to meet God" signs quite frankly make you look like a loudmouth blowhard with a chip on your shoulder. A little ankle-biting yapper dog.

People really ought to pull their egos out of this and act like adults.

A fence with a closed gate, maybe some purple paint and a simple "no trespassing" sign without the unnecessary - and in fact childish - editorializing is more than enough to establish your boundaries and actually makes a stronger statement.

 

[45CalPal]

As-is with anything there are always going to be oppinions, good and bad. I am man enough to dismiss them as such and I hold no Ill will towards anyone who speaks thier mind. but in the same sense, its like every tom/ ***k and harry sees my post and has to "Macho" up and offer thier assumption of what they believe is the only correct reasoning.

People really ought to pull their egos out of this and act like adults.

I could not agree more, if people would come down from thier throne once in a while they would realize that not everything is as they percieve it to be.
If I want to put a sign on my fence or property, then thats my business, and does not open the lines of commentary for people to go on a rant again,
"of what they believe is the only correct reasoning.

One with adult reasonng would just ignore them and move on.
It's not criticism which I always welcome, it's personal propaganda oppinion bordering on bullying and hypocritical theory.
Thanks for the eye opener, haven't even made it 3 weeks as a member before the thrones of the Hierarchy start to crack thier whips on the pesants.

All of you could have just said no thanks, or even not responded at all. thats a reasonable adult response.

Read this and heed:

Read before Posting: Legal Considerations of Posting on the Internet

Those signs could also do you in.

I'm well aware of the potential legal ramification's of anything I do in life....But, Thanks for the head's up

 

[bdickens]

Proof that we can explain it to you but we can't understand it for you.

The following isn't directed at you personally but at people in general:

When you are in court because you shot and killed someone who broke into your house in the middle of the night, the jury is going to see those signs. The jury is going to see those signs because the prosecutor is going to introduce them as evidence. Evidence that you were looking for an excuse to shoot someone. Because you were.

No? If you weren't looking for an excuse to shoot someone, then why the hell would you tell the whole world you were?

You didn't tell the whole world you were looking for an excuse to shoot someone? Did you forget about your signs? The ones telling the whole world that you were gonna shoot anyone you caught trespassing? Not to mention all the tough-guy ankle-biting yapper dog bloviating you plastered all over the internet.

Better to dispense with the peurile editorializing and just close your gate.

 

[Kleanbore]

If I want to put a sign on my fence or property, then thats my business, and does not open the lines of commentary for people to go on a rant again,
"of what they believe is the only correct reasoning.

That's not the point at all.

If one is on trial, what is important is what the sign can be made to seem to say by an unfriendly advocate, plaintiff's attorney or prosecutor.

Signs, like internet postings and bumper sticker, can be extremely damaging.

 

[45CalPal]

it's all asumption, until proven with actual court findings or facts. It will take more than a few posts and a sign to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of intent to comit murder, Such as criminal history... for the record I have none.

As stated before, I know the potential ramification of my actions in life, Im educated, and aware of my state laws.. I still choose to post the "warning" signs, so I suggest we agree to disagree and get back to the subject matter of this post. or create a new one.

 

[Elkins45]

All of you could have just said no thanks, or even not responded at all. thats a reasonable adult response.

When an adult sees someone napping on the railroad tracks a reasonable adult response is to warn them a train is coming.

Not only could those signs mean the difference between a conviction and acquittal but they could mean the difference in whether you are even prosecuted. Those may turn out to be the most expensive things you every buy. But as the kids say these days, “you do you.” I’m out.

 

[plainsdrifter]

I know a repo man who can disarm any dog with a couple McDonalds burgers.

 

[Kleanbore]

it's all asumption, until proven with actual court findings or facts.

The literature of use of force law ls replete with examples relevant here.

It will take more than a few posts and a sign to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of intent to comit murder, ...

Verdicts are based on the totality of the evidence. Since only some of the evidence is available after the fact, each piece can matter.

Such as criminal history... for the record I have none.

That may be relevant in the sentencing phase, but not at trial.

Im educated, and aware of my state laws.

May I suggest learning as much as you can from Massad Ayoob and Andrew Banca.

 

[old lady new shooter]

"Protecting homes since...? well whenever we domesticated dogs" and with his deep loud bark, the signs posted i have never (nock on wood) been broke into, or even any attempts.

here is just one of the best friends/guard dogs. his name is Sam, he's almost 3yrs, abd weighs (last week) at 138.40 lbs
View attachment 1053916 View attachment 1053917

Beautiful animal!

 

[stanley_white]

Physical defenses like doors, armored vehicles, run flat tires, body armor, etc., buy you time to make decisions, but you need to decide quick as they are all eventually defeatable.

-Stan

 

[armydog]

it's all asumption, until proven with actual court findings or facts. It will take more than a few posts and a sign to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of intent to comit murder, Such as criminal history... for the record I have none.

As stated before, I know the potential ramification of my actions in life, Im educated, and aware of my state laws.. I still choose to post the "warning" signs, so I suggest we agree to disagree and get back to the subject matter of this post. or create a new one.

As someone with a lot of land, I struggled with what the right sign would be that would get the point across. I totally underestimated the stupidity of people that have come onto my land. lol Just when I think I've seen it all, something else would happen. After a few years people got the point. But then you have contractors for the power company and all kinds of other companies just putting their noses where it doesn't belong like the logging companies. I made several signs out of huge tin siding in big painted letters that read, " Private Residence beyond this gate. Do not enter under any circumstances no matter who you are or who you work for." It's not threatening and seems to have worked for many years now combined with the cables and gates across the many roads I have.

I've gotten to know some other people around here that I share a boundary with and to my surprise, some people out here are just bat crap crazy and don't care about anything. They are shoot first and not even ask question types. But they are good far off neighbors. lol

 

[Pudge]

Why is the assumption that signs will have a significant influence on a jury's course of action and decision making process, but not that of a perpetrator of criminal intent?

 

[armydog]

Why is the assumption that signs will have a significant influence on a jury's course of action and decision making process, but not that of a perpetrator of criminal intent?

You can't discount the biased hatred of a prosecutor to use any tactic possible to convict someone who acted lawfully. A prosecutor will use your boot selection, your key chain, if you were wearing gloves when it wasn't cold enough in their opinion to warrant wearing gloves, and anything else possible to try to prove malicious intent on your part. A sign they deem inappropriate will just add more smoke to their smokescreen.

 

[Pudge]

You can't discount the biased hatred of a prosecutor to use any tactic possible to convict someone who acted lawfully. A prosecutor will use your boot selection, your key chain, if you were wearing gloves when it wasn't cold enough in their opinion to warrant wearing gloves, and anything else possible to try to prove malicious intent on your part. A sign they deem inappropriate will just add more smoke to their smokescreen.

We agree on that. But what if, in the same way the sign could influence a jury's perception of the homeowners intent, the sign warning of big dogs and armed occupants encourages a violent criminal not to enter the premises? Is the risk of potential prosecution mitigated or offset by potentially avoiding the violent encounter in the first place?

 

[eastbank]

i have signs-doors-locks and two alarm systems(i sleep behind a locked door). but i trust these things more than all the other things.

 

[armydog]

We agree on that. But what if, in the same way the sign could influence a jury's perception of the homeowners intent, the sign warning of big dogs and armed occupants encourages a violent criminal not to enter the premises? Is the risk of potential prosecution mitigated or offset by potentially avoiding the violent encounter in the first place?

I hear you. I shouldn't even have to put up a single sign in the first place. A blunt sign probably does spare some people from some criminals that might be on the fence about trying something stupid.

If I went on someone's property, I would expect to be shot dead by accident or intentionally... but I know better than to just go wherever I feel like. lol But for the dozens of people that have trespassed on my land, for just as many reasons, they literally didn't have criminal intent towards me or my residence... disrespectful yes, but nothing aggressive. The signs just mean nothing to some people... even the dog signs you mentioned. Take a look at one of the hasty gates I made with 8x8s and cable, a home made sign and several Lowes signs. I'll post the picture. This road is the start of my 500 yard range. The road literally starts right there. To drive to this cable, you have to pass my closest neighbors back deck within inches to get to a field where you have to 4x4 across the field to get to this cable. I literally came in one day and saw a couple contractor looking 4x4 trucks bobbing and weaving, passing right behind my neighbor's house and they went all the way across my huge field to get to this spot. I met them at the gate, asked them why they were there and why they felt to the need to disgracefully trespass through my neighbors backyard to get here. They tell me they are looking to confirm the tallest pine tree that is marked in the area for something they were doing related to the tiny airfield a few miles away. They all looked the part. They tried to provide me with proof with their laptop but cause of Covid I declined to mess with it and directed them to the person that could help them get in an entrance on the adjacent property and told them they can expect to be shot up if you don't heed my advice and get permission from them first. lol

I knew the exact tree they were talking about. It's right on my border way way back there so I knew their story was too bizarre to make up. So some signs may be a good idea, but you have to expect the dumbest people to dumb their way right past your signs and you have to keep yourself composed when confronting people... ready, but composed.

 

[Kleanbore]

Why is the assumption that signs will have a significant influence on a jury's course of action and decision making process, but not that of a perpetrator of criminal intent?

Irrelevant distinction,

 

[Pudge]

Irrelevant distinction,

Why would that be irrelevant? We're discussing locks, security film, dogs, alarm systems as deterrents for preventing an armed conflict. According to one source, in 400 interviews with inmates a sign for security system was a top 10 reason not to select that property. Defensive uses of a firearm often don't involve an actual shooting. The threat of the firearm's use ends the confrontation.

Why would you assume sinage would have no impact in reducing the threat of a violent break-in?

 

[Kleanbore]

Why would you assume sinage would have no impact in reducing the threat of a violent break-in?

I make no such assumption.

The question was "But what if, in the same way the sign could influence a jury's perception of the homeowners intent, the sign warning of big dogs and armed occupants encourages a violent criminal not to enter the premises?".

In the first instance, the sign discussed to indicate what the actor's state of mind may have been at the time of act; in the second, it is intended to create an apprehension of possible harm. The two are not related.

 

[Pudge]

I make no such assumption.

The question was "But what if, in the same way the sign could influence a jury's perception of the homeowners intent, the sign warning of big dogs and armed occupants encourages a violent criminal not to enter the premises?".

In the first instance, the sign discussed to indicate what the actor's state of mind may have been at the time of act; in the second, it is intended to create an apprehension of possible harm. The two are not related.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be obtuse.

 

[AK Hunter]

Locks & doors most of the time are enough to deter an honest person but guns and the treats of certain death will not deter the true criminal.

 

[bdickens]

Why is the assumption that signs will have a significant influence on a jury's course of action and decision making process, but not that of a perpetrator of criminal intent?

Because the perpetrator of criminal intent doesn't think the same way that normal people do.