Thoughts on DPMS ARs?

[Lobotomy Boy]

Today I came within a heartbeat of buying a DPMS AR. It was a Panther Lite 16, which DPMS was selling at its own table at a guns show today. It retails for $709, but it was marked down to $625 today. It didn't have a chrome-lined barrel, but did have a collapsible stock and felt really light.

The general consensus seems to be that the best ARs are from Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, and Rock River, though I have seen a few pro-DPMS posts. Anyone have any first-hand experience with these guns?

 

[4v50 Gary]

A lot of firms buy from each other. I learned that from a fellow who use to work at BushMasters and was a member at TFL. When Oly Arms had their big fire, everyone pitched in parts and helped Oly get back on their feet.

Now, turning to DPMS, I've never bought a gun from them. I did buy upper receivers, internal parts and barrels and assembled them myself. That's how I got my dedicated Frankengun southpaw AR. It worked like a charm and still did - until I took it to Nevada where it lives in banishment.

 

[OpenRoad]

Alot of people around here have them and always talk about how accurate they are. I never see malfunctions. You can custom order them however you want.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

One of the advantages of buying DPMS is that I'm about 50 miles from the factory if I need to take it in for any work should something go wrong during the three-year warranty period.

 

[EBRDude]

I have a A1 DPMS with a 14.5 and a permanent Phantom 5C1. Fit and finish is excellent, function is flawless.
I understand everyone wants to justify what they bought, but DPMS is a fine weapon and will work for you as long as you do your part.
No need for weapon snobbery here...

I have not shot it from a bench, but offhand I can put 5 shots in a 2 inch group at 100 meters with M855 ball. I am sure with some accurate reloads or match loads from a bench it will group much better.

I like it enough to put the LR308 on my Christmas list.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My experience has been that DPMS is not as demanding on their parts QC as some other manufacturers and will use parts that a Colt or Bushmaster wouldn't use. I've also seen some issues reported with embrittlement of DPMS chrome-plated bolt carriers and bolts.

However, the majority of DPMS rifles I've seen run fine. Even with the problem ones, the problems usually appear immediately (inside the warranty period) and once the rifle is corrected, it runs fine from then on. I'd stay away from their chrome bolts and bolt carrier groups as these are parts that might outlast the warranty but not be as durable as the normal parts.

 

[Mulliga]

The Panther Lite, IIRC, has a cast lower. $625 ain't a bad price, but you do tend to get what you pay for.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Thanks for the feedback.

What are the functional disadvantages of a cast lower?

 

[DT Guy]

Unless you post about it on ARFCOM, not much.



I think it's largely theoretical for most users.

Larry

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The cast lower will not withstand abuse as well as a forged lower. Say you decided to take a hammer and smack your cast lower with it... the cast lower will break while the forged lower will just dent.

On the other hand, if you refrain from abusing your lower by smacking it with hard objects, a cast lower will serve you well. The main problem most people have with cast lowers is that forged lowers are not tremendously more expensive, so most people opt for the extra strength whether they think they will need it or not.

 

[cgv69]

On the other hand, if you refrain from abusing your lower by smacking it with hard objects, a cast lower will serve you well.

One realistic exception to that is if you where to drop the rifle. There is a real chance of a cast lower breaking.

The main problem most people have with cast lowers is that forged lowers are not tremendously more expensive, so most people opt for the extra strength whether they think they will need it or not.

This I think is the main point for me. The difference in cost between a cast lower and forged one is so small (usually no more than $30 when comparing stripped lowers) that it just makes no sense IMO to take the chance with a cast lower. For such a minimal cost savings, I can't even figure out why some manufacturers still use them? Matter of fact, the only two major AR players that I can think of that even offer them is DPMS and Olympic and even then they are only available in stripped form or on their "entry level"\ "plinker" models.

But then again, I wouldn't buy an AR without a chrome lined barrel either

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Since this original post I've learned that the Panther Lite 16 does have a forged receivers, as do all current DPMS rifles. The older Panther Lite and the Lo Pro Classic had cast-aluminum receivers, but they are all now forged.

I've always wondered about chrome-lined barrels. None of my other rifles--Tikka T3 Lite (30-06), Savage Model 99 (300 Savage), Ruger PC9, and Ruger 10-22--have chrome-lined barrels, yet all have been 100 percent reliable for many years (over 70 years in the case of the Model 99). If a person doesn't spend weeks at a time living in tropical rainforest conditions, what are the advantages of a chrome-lined barrel?

 

[cgv69]

I've always wondered about chrome-lined barrels. None of my other rifles--Tikka T3 Lite (30-06), Savage Model 99 (300 Savage), Ruger PC9, and Ruger 10-22--have chrome-lined barrels, yet all have been 100 percent reliable for many years (over 70 years in the case of the Model 99). If a person doesn't spend weeks at a time living in tropical rainforest conditions, what are the advantages of a chrome-lined barrel?

Well first off, you can not compare the reliability of a bolt or lever action gun to that of a semi auto. As far as the two Ruger's you mentioned, even though they are semi-autos, they use a much different system than the AR.

The AR's gas operating system blows "garbage" right back into the the action. Having a chrome lined chamber will make it less likely to be affected by that fouling. Specifically it helps with extraction. The other benefit is, not only does the AR run "dirtier" than most other designs, it is also harder to clean. Chrome lining makes the job of cleaning a lot easier. Many feel that alone makes the chrome lining worth it.

It boils down to what's more important to you... Quality and reliability or Cost? Cost is the only advantage that non-chrome lined barrels have. Some claim an accuracy advantage for non-chrome barrels but if it even exists, it is such a small advantage that only the top shooters, shooting from a rest would ever possible notice it.

 

[jem375]

most people will never shoot enough rounds to warrant a chrome lined barrel..I have the 20" SS bull barrel DPMS, very accurate and will never shoot enough to wear out the barrel on it........DPMS makes very good rifles and you live close enough to the factory to take it back if any problems arise, we have 3 in our family and have yet to have problems with them

 

[P0832177]

Buy DPMS support a local company! They are very responsive to dealing with problems. Ever company has their bad days! I have a 24in upper that drills holes so much that it is boring, almost. Chrome helps with bore longevity. If you take care of a gun with good cleaning habits it will probably out last the shooter. But, guns do wear out. Just ask a highpower shooter! A good quality barrel in an AR platform will last 8 to 10K.

 

[Khornet]

Mine

is a DPMS CMP rifle, 20" barrel, 1:8, floated, match sights, really sweet trigger. Very accurate, excellent fit & finish. Had it about a year and am quite happy with it.

 

[8830]

I have a postban A15 16" that is just as accurate and reliable as my Colt 6920 for half the cost. In fact the DPMS sees alot more use since I carry it on duty.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

cvg69, you make good points about how the Stoner system poops where it eats, but they all relate to having a chrome-lined chamber, which the Panther Lite has. The Stoner system undoubtedly fouls its chamber because the gas acts directly on the bolt, but I don't see how the gas-impingement system makes the barrel any more or less dirty than any other system.

I agree that a chrome-lined chamber is very important on a Stoner system gun.

 

[cgv69]

Hey LB -

you make good points about how the Stoner system poops where it eats, but they all relate to having a chrome-lined chamber, which the Panther Lite has.

I fully agree with you in that, only the chamber needs to be chrome lined to help with the reliability issue but are you sure the panther lite has a chrome lined chamber?

I checked their web site and they say nothing about it having a chrome lined chamber on the Panther Lite and actually, I didn't see that listed anywhere as a feature or option on any of their guns? I would be pretty surprised if they did chrome their chambers and then didn't advertise that fact as that would be a pretty important (and costly) feature.

The only manufacturer that I know of that ever made\sold barrels with only the chamber chrome lined is Colt. This is actually a very unusual setup as it's actually harder (and hence more expensive) to just chrome the chamber. That's why most Colt barrels, and every non-Colt chrome lined barrel I've seen, has been chrome lined all the way through it.

 

[Black Snowman]

Local gun story carries Bushmaster and DPMS. They say they see about the same failure rates per capita with both brands and people have always been happy with both. I'm value minded so I lean tward DPMS. I want an Oly Arms PCR-8 Mag but they won't do business with any of my local stores. Not sure how they expect to sell anything if they won't work with dealers. :banghead:

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I was told the DPMS has a chrome-lined chamber by a factory rep. He may have been jerking my chain, but he seemed pretty knowledgeable and straightforward. I'll give the company a call and find out the exact details and report back.

 

[bytor94]

I just picked up my AP4 Panther carbine yesterday. It looks very well made and tight. Hopefully I can get to the range in the next few days. Weather dependant of course. :banghead:

From what I have seen with my rifle and from others who have a DPMS rifle, I don't think you can go wrong with it.

 

[outofbattery]

My Panther Lite works just as well as my AR's that cost 30% more for what I use it for and as many rounds I put through it . I think DPMS's reputation is going up considerably as they're making lots of happy customers . I don't mind the unchromed bore ,I tend to not worry about how well it's going to hold up when I'm 75 years old ( though I have my doubts it will be legal to own anymore ) but with 2k through it , it's been 100% reliable and the the fit and finish is holding up just fine .

 

[Swede]

I bought a DPMS Panther about 2 years ago. It has a heavy 24" barrel, flat top, tuned trigger piny (SP?) rail. The only problem I had was shooting Olympic ammo, then it would jam about every third shot. Now that's it's broken in and I changed over to handloads I haven't had a problem. It groups 3/4" @ 100 yds, I'm still working on a load for 200 yds. We used it on P-dogs in Montana last fall and had a blast. I liked it so much I bought a DPMS post ban A4 upper just for plinking.

 

[Light Storm]

I have a lite 16, and cant say enough good things about it. It will hold 1.5 MOA, and has never jammed in the 3k rounds i have put though it. It even seems to work well with the 10 buck mystery mags i bought at knob creek 2 years ago (they dont seem to work with anything else) I say go for it, i know i love mine.