thoughts on joining the ARMY

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There's thousands of people with degrees in this country with student loan debt up to the eyeballs, and "working construction." I spent short of 5 years in the Marine Corps (after one highly entertaining, but wholly uneducational, year in college) and make good money as an SCSA and CCNA.

I would have NEVER looked into UNIX, networking, or any other IT field had I not had a Major of Marines dump six transit cases full of crappy HP workstations in my lap and say, "Sgt, make this thing work."

You will learn to apply yourself, or you will not. You will work under pressure, or you will not. You will accomplish the mission, or you will not.

"The service" is definitely that, you will serve. You will deal with boneheads and you will deal with the infinitely talented. You have to scrub a few ????ters, but in return, you will learn more about people and yourself than you ever will in college (where being a "free thinker" means you agree with the rest of the radicals). You may not learn an immediately marketable skill, but you will learn how to force yourself to learn one. Self-discipline.

One of my oldest friends, who I served with in the Marines, got out and went to college (paid for by his service) and is now a 1st LT in the 82nd Airborne. He says the Army gets better gear and training, but the two are pretty much equal (heretic! :evil: ) in the quality of people.

My thoughts (long and rambling, that they are) say everyone should join. You get to see places and meet people that are completely unlike anything you would see otherwise. Of course, you are "touring Asia," so you may be more cosmopolitan than I was, but I "toured Asia" with a coffin rack and an ALICE pack, and Uncle Sam picked up the bill. ;)

S/F

Farnham

PS: Merry Christmas to the servicemen and women of all branches (Marines especially) that see this! You all have my unending gratitude and respect.

S/F
 
Citadel99 said:
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Downside to this [SMP rotc and usar/arng]is the possibility of a deployment with the NG/Reserve unit during college. A plus side is if you decide to get out after your three or four year officer contract, the enlisted time counts against the IRR so you have a small chance of being called up after you get out.
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Someone esle talked about SMP with ROTC as well...I didn't want to spend the time to dig up and quote it.

I just wanted to chime in. I am SMP. I am an ROTC cadet (accepting my commission in May as an Armor officer) and also a drilling reservist in the USAR. A few things about SMP. There are two varities of soldiers in SMP. 1) they are currently enlisted and decide on ROTC. or 2) they are currently cadets in ROTC and decide to drill concurrently in a USAR or ARNG unit. Either way, you are simultaneusuly (i know, ingenious how they thought up the S in SMP) a drilling reservist or natl guardsman as well as a cadet.

ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) is generally a 2 year program. It is 4 years for some because they need to take 2 years of milisci electives to get up to speed. This is waived if they are prior enlisted or go to a 6 week LTC one summer (leaders training course--it's not basic training, it purpose is different--but it gets you up to speed to start leadership training and gives rudimentary soldier skills). We have some cadets, even, who are "prior service" split option enlistees, just out of basic and about to go to AIT, only to sign an ROTC contract--thus superceding thier enlistment contract. Eitehr way, you end up with 2 years of precomissioning training. It's really leadership training, the scope of which is too large to go in detail here. ROTC is an officer commisioning program. The otehr 2 ways are West Point and OCS.

If you SMP, you will drill as an officer trainee with a USAR or ARNG unit. This is outside of your ROTC committment. You are generally a pseudo-officer in that unit. It depends on your unit and commander on what you will do. MOst SMP cadets shadow an LT as an apprentice of sorts, some SMP cadets are makeshift platoon leaders themselves (particularly in units with a lack of LTs).

The main point that was off in other posts that mention SMP (the above included)is the nature of you as a drilling reservst in SMP. You are technically enlisted, per contract, with the USAR or ARNG. But again, youre an officer trainee and anything ROTC takes precedent. For example, If your ROTC BN is having an FTX on you USAR unit's drill weekend, you go on the FTX. Furthermore, YOu are on non-deployable status. From a comon sense standpoint, it wouldn't make sense to deploy a cadet that is serving as a pseudo-platoon-leader. That could get soldiers killed... LIkewise, even if you were enlisted prior to signing your ROTC contract, you basically cease to exist as that enlisted soldier you were. If you were a 91W, for random example, and you sign an ROTC contract and reamin with your unit... that 91W is erased and you are now 09R. Your unit can't deploy you as a 91W, and 09R (officer candidate-ROTC) is non-deployable. SMP is a program for cadets to get some apprenticeship time in an actual unit. You get E-5 drill pay, and are addressed as "sir," etc...

oh, All of the above concerns the Army. THe Navy (and Marine) and Air Force are different. And as I understand it, neither offer anything like SMP. Coast Guard does not offer ROTC. And ROTC can be taken at many universities and even military schools (like the Citadel, from which I assume "Citadell99" is from). It's voluntary even in the military schools.

Anyway. I just registered on this forum just to post that :)

My advice is to FINISH COLLEGE. Even if you decide officership isn't for you, or decide to enlist, or decided against the military altogether, I still reccomend you finish college to better yourself as a person.

Whether or not you find the comments of ""KA50" unpalattable, you will find many of his like viewpoints in places like college. AND THAT's A GOOD THING. It's part of the learning process and part of the free market of ideas that college tries to cultivate (only TRIES...there are some hypocrite jerks that insist "dubya sucks" or "anyone who hates bush is unamerican" and you suck if you don't think so.). You'll come accross different people in life...and you'll have to deal with them as a leader, or even as a particupant in life. The military needs people with brains, not robots. YOu have to rationalize you own path, and college CAN help you there.

Best of luck to you. Judging from your initial message you seem to be a real hardcharger who seeks the most in life. That will serve you well in any endeavor, military or otherwise.
 
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Danus ex said:
Yeah I'm in communication studies, which is kind of a blend of humanities and social science, and is tremendously broad. The focus of my master's degree is on teaching methods and their relationship to rhetoric/persuasion.
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From the Air Force perspective, a Masters in those chosen professions doesn't do a darn thing for you. You will be lumped into the same group as the next joe with a B.S. in any other "non-technical" area. The Air Force is probably still looking for Medical and "Technical" degree's. By Technical I mean heavy in the Math and Science's.

LBTRS said:
I've been doing this a while and want to share a personal experience with you. My job in the Navy has me working directly with the public. I meet and work with military veterans daily. Whenever I meet a veteran from the Army they proudly announce "I was in the Army". The Navy, "I was in the Navy for eight years". The Marine Corps, "I'm a Marine and did eight years on Active Duty". Unfortunately this is what I get almost EVERYTIME I meet an Air Force Veteran, "I was in the military". Then you have to ask them what service they were in and they almost always embarrassingly state "the Air Force" or "ONLY the Air Force".
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I understand where you are coming from with this, I once was misguided in my thought process. I think a lot of it comes from being the Junior service, and from our beginning we have always looked for a certain type of individual and have taken care of them in a different way. Depending on what you do in the Air Force, it is more like a corporation than the military.
A lot of it has to do with the old joke "The Navy has 230 years of tradition unimpeded by progress and the Air Force has 58 years of progress unimpeded by tradition!"
At the start of powered flight, our pioneers were the wild and crazy, didn't take no for an answer type guys and gals. The Generals that fought for an independent Air Force ruffled many feathers of the old "Horse Cavalry" guys, it's too bad that we as an institution lost that.
I think a lot of it had to do with the Cold War. I mean how hard was it to sit on Alert and only worry about one main enemy? That was the gravy time when we would send out Tankers over to Europe or to the Pacific for a couple months at a time. It was a time for us to relax and get paid to chase women and drink beer in another country. It was not hard to be in at that time. Then the Cold War fizzeled out and Desert Sheild/Storm hit and life changed. I have seen a lot of changes in the last 16 years that I have been around the Air Force.

These days we still only have a 4 month rotation instead of the Army's year, and live in better conditions most of the time.
 
Olys45 said:
I think a lot of it had to do with the Cold War. I mean how hard was it to sit on Alert and only worry about one main enemy? That was the gravy time when we would send out Tankers over to Europe or to the Pacific for a couple months at a time. It was a time for us to relax and get paid to chase women and drink beer in another country. It was not hard to be in at that time. Then the Cold War fizzeled out and Desert Sheild/Storm hit and life changed. I have seen a lot of changes in the last 16 years that I have been around the Air Force.
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If you've been in for 16 years that means you joined about 1989 or so. My friend, you didn't see the Cold War, and there was nothing COLD about it. I lived on a SAC base during the 1960s. I knew the flight crews who took turns living in the ready alert bunkers. I remember the red phone in our hallway ringing and my father's driver coming up the street with the siren wailing (my father was the deputy wing commander). I remember the B-52s launching two at a time, throttles set to war emergency power. It sounded like a freight train coming through the house. Then when the BUFFs were in the air the tankers would start launching. Once the birds were gone everything was deathly quiet and the waiting would start. It was like the whole base was holding its breath. We didn't know if it was another drill or if in 30 minutes we'd be vaporized by a Soviet nuclear missle. A lot of the families couldn't take it. SAC lost good men because their wives and children were terrified every time the klaxons sounded. The men who didn't transfer out often ended up divorced. My father did.

Except for those people who lived near the base and were rattled out of their beds by the BUFFs the general public had no idea what was going on, what a handful of pilots and flight crews were doing to keep this country safe. Don't think for a moment that everytime those bombers scrambed someone in Moscow didn't hear about it. They knew that if they did launch against us our bombers would be on their way long before the missles arrived over Dayton. So they didn't launch.

If you spent most of your time drinking beer and chasing girls then good for you. But I'll guarantee you that the crews living in those alert bunkers during the real Cold War had an entirely different experience. You want to see what it was like, watch the movie A Gathering of Eagles some time. Sure, it's got some Hollywood BS in it, but it does a pretty good job of showing what the pressure on the crews was like in those days.
 
Danus ex said:
Hey gents,

What does the military do with people who have advanced degrees (masters/doctorates)? I'll probably be done with my Ph.D by 27 or 28, have no plans to join the military, but I am curious.
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I'm finishing my masters in political science right now. LIke you, I am sure, most people seeking advanced degrees aren't doing it for "trade-school" like reasons. People don't always go for Ph.Ds just to get bigger paychecks. That said, you'll be hard prressed to find field grade or general officers without them...

There's often a question of what does your college degree (the question often revolves around bachelors) "do" for you. To the cynics, and on instances of face value, the answer is "absolutely nothing." After all, being in the corps of engineers doesn;t rely on you having been an engineer as an undergrad, nor does a signal officer need to have been a conmputer science major. I can't tell you how many friendly conversations I've had where people think i should go MI because they hear of my b ackground finishing up an MA in political science. Overall, college is about what I reference above...bettering yourself...many will disagree...but I'm pointing to the old addage of you get what you put in. In any case, on a technical standpoint, the technical matters you get from your specialized degree don't transfrer specficially. If you're a mechanical engineer, you honestly wont take those number crunching skills specifically, keeping in mind many of your peers may be english majors(even in seemingly technical branches like the corps of enginneers and signal). People more often than not undervalue thier college experience...failing to cite thier increased research skills, verbal/written skill, critical thinking process, and an overall wider field of knowledge (it's not just about your specific major or field of study)...your drinking skills...:). A good number of NCOs have bachelors degrees and even more advanced ones. Again, the military, contrary to a lot of outside misconceptions, the military would like educatetd soldiers and leaders...robots can't plan wars...

College degrees only show you have the ability to learn...potentially...
 
These days in most branches to see E-8 an associates degree is needed, and in many career fields because the selection is getting thin, a bachelors degree is probably needed to rise above the rest in the selection process. (SF is probably the exeption, and most critical MOS). But I will see if you want to see E-9 you definately need a Bachelors Degree.

I had 4 college courses under my belt (english 101, world history, biology 101, Chinese 101) when I went back into the Army as enlisted. I was able to work with Peirce Community College that had a branch on Ft Lewis while I was stationed there. Over my last year I was able to take 4 courses (a physics course, an algebra course, a creative writing course, and a political science course). Those 4 course, combined with the previous 4 courses I had taken and combined with all the college credits I was able to get for my military schooling was enough for Pierce College to award me an Associates Degree in Technology. I was very proud of that and helped boost up my NCOER. They gave me a lot of credits for military course I had had. Most colleges will (i got outdoor education and physical education credits for Ranger school, supervisor credits for NCO leadership courses, alnguage credits for the 6 month Language school I attended, and various technical credits for the SF Engineer course I completed).

Pierce college was great in that even though I was in a SF unit that was deployed a lot, they had program for us and the 2/75 RGR bn at ft lewis to help us out. For example they offered a special designed one month long Political Science course just for our SF unit. We had about 20 guys enroll. Was taught by a retired 3 star. (definately was not liberal biased!). For the Physics 101 course I taught we had only 6 guys in the class!! I got an A+. If I would have taken that course at Purdue I would have been in a lecture hall with 400 students, being taught by a TA with only limited knowledge of english and probably would have been lucky to get even a C, witout all the one on one instruction.

I later then used my GI Bill to complete a BS degree at Purdue Univ. Besides the GI Bill the VA also would reimburse me for hiring tutors! I would not have made it through advanced chemistry and calculus courses without that.

Well, just pointing out that there are many many ways to continue your education while in the military. It is all up to you and how you want to spend your off time. Just like any other job, what you put into it will decide how much you suceed.
 
Quote:
"I'll be back at Planet Bragg by 29 DEC. We'll hafta get together and do a mini-High Road shoot oover at McKellars."

Hey, that sounds great! That's where I shoot. Count me in! :D

Joe
 
Just FTR, "armyranger" has now been busted as a Ranger poser on yet another site. He also immediately shut down his myspace site where he claimed Ranger quals.
 
hey i just got my asvab- my afqt was an 82

i spent friday at the army recruiter

im plaaning on using the army to go to college and not leave my retired dad(a retired a.f. colnel) not stuck witht he bill that and i wanted to join anyways


i really want to fly or jump
 
Decide for yourself but while your serving and when you get out, Air Force is your best option. Don't take my word for it. I am just stating a fact. I didnt get this information. So maybe it will help you.
 
For the most part it was a good experience but due to my current political beliefs I wouldn't do it again.
Also, understand that after you sign that contract they own you. If you are OK with that go ahead and join.
 
at how the never-served types view military service as servitude and total loss of freedom.
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Even more amazing is how those who ended up at E-4 think that anyone who 'served' (did time) in any branch is a flippin' Audie Murphy.

I like Capt. H.W. McBride's (A Rifleman Went to War---see Cooper, Jeff) opinion that no one who has not been in some kind of a major engagement should not be considered a 'veteran'.

Sure, there is some glory in war, but nowadays 'serving' for the U.S. FedGOD is serving Imperial Rome on the Potomac...it AIN'T WWII.....!
 
paintbal dude. If you are under 21 go ROTC. MAKE THEM PAY FOR YOUR EDUCATION FIRST.

When people look at job applications, they never discount seeing the qualification of a military officer.

My $0.02
 
Deciding to enlist is really a personal choice, not one to be taken lightly. Considering the pros and cons, and your personal feelings about killing another human being in time of war, and your beliefs about our involvement in Iraq, will weigh heavily, if you haven't already defined your values. Its not about basic training, though basic training can have a maturing effect. I've known people who enlisted in the guard for the college money, never thinking they would be deployed, then freakin surprise, the Iraq War arrived. Like they never really thought this would happen. What were they thinking,Hey? Gotta be realistic about the possibility of being wounded or killed. I am a veteran, and the Military did give me the opportunity to finish my college education, but not without the risks.
 
Even more amazing is how those who ended up at E-4 think that anyone who 'served' (did time) in any branch is a flippin' Audie Murphy.

I like Capt. H.W. McBride's (A Rifleman Went to War---see Cooper, Jeff) opinion that no one who has not been in some kind of a major engagement should not be considered a 'veteran'.

Sure, there is some glory in war, but nowadays 'serving' for the U.S. FedGOD is serving Imperial Rome on the Potomac...it AIN'T WWII.....! -lewis wetzel


lewis, CPT mcbride sounds like a blowhard. more often than not, joining any branch of the military is a huge sacrifice. it's a commendable thing to do. as far as 'nowadays' not being WWII.....no one said it was.....but the similarities are endless nonetheless.

i know a number of WWII vets...infantryman some of them. from what i gather, though somewhat different, their experiences in many ways are equal to that of a soldier with a combat MOS in iraq or afghanistan these days. my dad's uncle was part of a heavy weapons platoon in an infantry outfit. he fought at messina, anzio and monte casino, to name a few. we both agreed on one thing....life in a combat zone can be awfully boring.....LONG stretches of nothing, punctuated by usually brief spurts of violent chaos.

don't make the mistake of deifying WWII vets at the expense of your contemporary veterans...and they ARE most certainly veterans. these soldiers in combat units go out every single day, in an almost unbearable climate, putting themselves in the crosshairs of some really awful people who seek to hurt and demoralize them in whatever way they can. all this while being separated from just about everything and everyone they value. they make the choice to do this of course, but don't downplay it. if you had ever experienced anything like it yourself, you wouldn't make such uninformed comments.

paintballdude, you sound excited about this. go do it. i think anyone could benefit from the experience. if nothing else, it helps you appreciate what's important in life. and nothing against our infantry brothers, but if you want to join a group in the regular army that will truly make your mama proud, ask your recruiter about being a cavalry scout. a squared away 19D can do an infantryman's job, and everybody else's if need be:) the eyes of battle....a proud title. god bless you whatever you decide.
 
lewis, CPT mcbride sounds like a blowhard.
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You need an education...read his book. Two years in the trenches in France, WWI. Emma-gees, he was a seminal sniper before Haskett-Prichard had the schools....was a Capt. in U.S. reserves...resigned, went to Canada, enlisted, rose to Capt. in those two years....Yeah, a real 'effing blowhard....

As to deifying WWII vets, I did nothing of the sort...separation by category is not deification...it is clarification. I would simply point out that the German soldiers of WWII are every bit as honorable...and dishonorable...in their actions and missions as the present U.S. military. They both fight for their 'country', no matter what the lies they (and the citizens) are fed to justify their actions. The "Thank you for your service" line is SO tiresome...service to whom? The government? The people? A fireman who puts his a$$ on the line every flippin' day...now THAT is service to the people...I draw a distinction between service to the GOVERNMENT (and it's insidious affiliations with the corporate interests that guide U.S. Government policy) and those that serve the people...People, Government, Nation, Country...the terms are not interchangeable.

Let's not conflate concepts and issues.

HAPPY to help...
 
Go with ROTC and finish college first. You don't have to worry about ticket punching like a regular and can pursue a normal life afterwards. By normal, I'm referring to the constant transfers service personnel get. It's great if you're single, but once you meet a girl and want to settle down, she'd better be predisposed towards uprooting and moving or she'll leave you.
 
hey i just got my asvab- my afqt was an 82

i spent friday at the army recruiter

im plaaning on using the army to go to college and not leave my retired dad(a retired a.f. colnel) not stuck witht he bill that and i wanted to join anyways


i really want to fly or jump
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Paintball, just remember, once you are designated, that's pretty much it. Maybe it's different in the Army than the USMC, but if you get tagged with a certain kind of duty from the get-go, that's pretty much the way it's going to be, barring some special incident along the way, such as you being discovered to be the greatest thing since sliced bread in doing (fill in the blank).

Just my two cents....
 
It's a whole new game bud! I just wish I would've stayed in for my 20, I'd be long retired and would have had plenty of time for a whole new career (expecially LEO, which I did for 20 years) and would have been a "double dipper". When I went in, the draft was just ending, and they were offering felons the choice of prison or the Army/Marines. My draft number inferred that I was going in, so I went down and talked to every recruiter, told them whoever gave me the best job could have me. Army offered the best deal, so I took it. Never knew that that was the last draft, and they never called anyone off the list! I never regretted it, spent my time, and used my GI Bill for college. Just wish I would've stayed in until my minimum retirement time. Best wishes, and thanks for whatever service you decide! Jump if you have the chance!
Tracy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdharmon
why so many differences in opinions? is it what you make it or what?

That pretty much sums it up fella. Some people live their whole life and don't figure that out, be it concerning the military, school, their job, their marriage, or pretty much everything else too. Some folks adapt well and thrive in the Service, some just aren't cut out to be in the military.
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+100

Life is what you make of it, aside from certain aspects that you can't control.

I believe in the existential philosophy that man first of all exists, then surges upon himself, then defines himself later.

Misery can be found in all walks of life. I know rich folks who could have or do anything they want that are miserable. I know poor folks that are too. I know servicemen and women who are miserable. I also know rich people, poor people and service people who are content with their lives.

I have no military service background. I will tell you the stories of three of my close friends from high school who joined:

Friend 1- Graduated high school and while he has the mental capacity for college level work decided not to go. One day his father kicked him out of the house. After several unsuccessful attempts at finding employment he joined the Marine Corps. He graduated basic and was as gung-ho a Marine I have ever seen He convinced friends 2 and 3 to join. He spent some time in California before being deployed to Iraq. He saw combat. He relayed to me that it is not glorious and he dreaded every minute of it. He completed his term of service and was honorably discharged. When he got home he gave me this advice: "Never enlist. If you do, never re-enlist." He is now back home but slightly disabled (hearing loss and limited use of left arm) and severely addicted to alcohol and painkillers. His psychologist attributes his addictions to PTSD.

Friend 2- Graduated high school and found himself in a grueling dead end construction job. Joined the Corps at friend 1's reccomendation. Spent time in various schools before being deployed to Japan and the Phillipines. Currently stationed in CA and will probobly get out without seeing combat. He can't wait to get out.

Friend 3- Also joined at friend 1's reccomendation, only on the day he went to sign up the MCRS was closed. He went next door and joined the Army. He was deployed to Iraq shortly after basic. He saw combat. By his account he took several lives (including those of women and children). Upon returning to the states he found himself unable to readapt to life outside of a combat zone. He couldnt sleep. He developed a bad case of alcoholism. He was dishonorably discharged after physically assaulting a superior officer. He went home and the downward spiral of alcoholism led him to harsher drugs (cocaine and crystal meth). His mother forced him to check in to rehab. Fortunately he is doing much better but he says he is still troubled by what he saw and did over there.

I have nothing but respect for those who do join the services. I will not touch on my opinions of our governments actions, that discussion doesn't belong here. The services are a great option for those who have limited other options, or for those who feel compelled to serve. It is a great credential to have to raise your value concerning employability. But so is a college degree. The way I see it, enlisting is just signing up for a job. Going to college or becoming an officer is a career path.

That's my $0.02
 
You get from the military what you put into it. One of your biggest obstacles will be peer pressure not to excel, to only just get by.

You have to decide that if you are going to invest three, four years of your life, you are going to get everything out of it there is to be had. That means you are going to do everything you can to make your unit, squadron, ship, etc. the best of all others.

The Navy paid my way through college by the NROTC scholarship program. I graduated with a BA degree and no debt. I had a job on graduation and entry into a career I loved, naval aviation.

Pilgrim
 
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