Threat of arrest for empty holster

[IdahoLT1]

It's not based on magnetism. It's based on an interruption of a electronic field produced by the search coil. All the metal has to be is able to do is conduct an electric current.

A basic metal detector has one coil that creates an alternating magnetic field. When a metal object comes in contact with this field, an eddy current is induced into the object and creates its own magnetic field around the object. Another coil in the metal detector senses this separate magnetic field and goes off.

Some metal detectors use an induction balance system. It uses two electrically balanced coils that become unbalanced when a metal objects is in its vicinity. They are able to detect different types of metals because most metals have a different phase response when it conducts electricity. Their disadvantage is that it has a much lower sensitivity than other designs.

Modern metal detectors use a pulse induction, which pulses a high voltage current into the ground. It measures this voltage until it reaches 0 and times it. If metal is in the path, the metal will conduct the electricity, which will take longer to reach zero. The metal detectors senses this delay and goes off.

 

[Deanimator]

I see cops protecting and helping people in ways that have nothing to do with enforcing the law, all the time.
It may not be mandatory, but many of them do it because they can, because they're good guys, and because they see themselves as public servants.

I've seen cops deny police services on the basis of race.

I've seen cops volunteer to check out a screaming woman call after their shift was over because park rangers wouldn't.

I don't have ANY control over which of them I'm going to encounter, or more importantly, which of them CHOOSE to encounter ME.

Why do we always point out the few jerks and never praise the overwhelming number of good ones?

Because the "few jerks" can cause you to lose your liberty and your life. Do a Google search on "Danziger Bridge New Orleans".

And as somebody else has pointed out, the "good ones" NEVER seem to "rein in" the bad ones. They won't even testify against them unless internal affairs (where there is one and it's on the up and up) or the prosecutor or FBI has something on THEM to make them flip.

When you have that degree of power over somebody's freedom and very life, I expect you to be squeaky clean, and to do EVERYTHING possible to make sure that your co-workers are too. Otherwise, you're part of the problem, NOT the solution.

 

[ozarkgunner]

Per haps working the "beat" was not the correct term. I mean they, as with any other profession. New "beat" cops get put with a training supervisor, correct? To be shown proper procedure and such. Two new "recruits" working the metal detector at the court house, and making things up as they go along cause they don't know, or think they know, is like handing a scalpel to a new med school grad, and letting them have free will in an OR. It wouldn't happen. Just like SWAT teams and such. No new cadets there. Seasoned LEO with some sort of proven track record. Newly graduated cadets flying solo are the some of the ones that cause problems. Lack of experience and training cause problems world wide in every proffesion out there. Some with deadly consequences.
Officers on the street respond to calls or intervene when something does not look right. So not everyone has to deal with them. Officers manning the door and metal detector, deal with everyone walking in. So they should have more training, I feel. On the street, innocent people can run, hide, etc. In a court house, not so much. So the people deciding who and what gets in, should know exactly what they are talking about, not making it up as they go along, and "enforcing" their will on normal, law abiding citizens.
I review Missouri's CCW regs regularly, and no where in them does it say that holsters cannot be brought or carried into court houses or any federal building.

The closest situation I've come to like this, I don't remember where or when, but I was passing into a secure area, and the guard at the metal detector wasn't going to let me in and have my keys, because of my key chain. They are on an aluminum caribener. I asked why, and she said that the caribener could be used as "knuckles". I told her to keep it, not a big deal to me, I have more in my truck. It wasn't a big deal to me, at the time, but just an example of how they can and will make it up as they go along. Had some thing like that happened to me now, I would have asked if she wanted my shoes too, as I could throw them at some one, or my belt cause I could use it to choke some one or swing like a whip.
Next we'll be having to disrobe and put on hospital gowns. Oh wait, they have strings on them to tie with. Potentially dangerous weapon???????????????????

 

[nitetrane98]

Never been around Special Forces/ Elite Forces units I take it

I don't think that you intended to do so, but if you consider those examples to be lower echelon employees then have at it. I certainly do not. The terms "special" and "elite" are used fora reason. I suppose if you want to consider paygrade to determine echelon I can see your point. I'm fully aware that these types are encouraged to improvise if the mission calls for it. But generally speaking any mission is planned to the finest point. Usually not a whole lot of winging it going on. These plans are generally good until the first round is fired.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I don't think that you intended to do so, but if you consider those examples to be lower echelon employees then have at it. I certainly do not.

Nor do I, but the original poster made a blanket statement and elite forces is the natural foil to that blanket. Further, LEO's should be held to the standards of the military elite in mission rather than the grunt considering the impact their decisions have on the public and individual.

BTW- the context of the answer was whether armed forces personnel would cover up a violation of ROE not the differences in mission or the decision processes involved. I know it's your way but it's impolite to attempt to put words in people's mouths. Leave the reasonable deception in the field with your friends and watch your manners in polite company. Thank you.

 

[Werewolf]

Sounds like they were caught in a state of stupid, and decided to threaten you with "BS", so they could still hold the upper hand.................

Sounds like they were caught in a state of stupid, and decided to threaten you with "Pelosi", so they could still hold the upper hand...

There...
Fixed if for ya.

 

[nitetrane98]

Nor do I, but the original poster made a blanket statement and elite forces is the natural foil to that blanket. Further, LEO's should be held to the standards of the military elite in mission rather than the grunt considering the impact their decisions have on the public and individual.

BTW- the context of the answer was whether armed forces personnel would cover up a violation of ROE not the differences in mission or the decision processes involved. I know it's your way but it's impolite to attempt to put words in people's mouths. Leave the reasonable deception in the field with your friends and watch your manners in polite company. Thank you.

We are obviously not communicating. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. What precisely is "my way" and what is the "reasonable deception" of which you speak? Maybe you could PM me with a list of grievances re: my breaches of etiquette in polite company?

 

[ChaoSS]

I see a difference between those who risk their lives for a paycheck, and those who put themselves in harm's way for their country or their community.

Next time you have a serious problem call 911 and see how many lumberjacks and Bering Sea crabbers show up.

Tinpig

This is exactly why the "good" cops ought to be protecting us from the bad ones. When the people charged with protecting our freedoms are the ones taking it away from us, it makes it all the worse, and all the more important for the good guys to not have the backs of the bad guys.

 

[svaz]

I told them that if they could find the statute that listed a leather holster as an illegal item, I would put the cuffs on myself.

Classic!

 

[Hann]

Once I walked into the Georgia State Capitol building in Atlanta wearing a pair of steel toed shoes (not boots, shoes). I went through the detector, beeped, went back through, beeped again, took my belt off, beeped again. At this point I'm turning red as I'm holding up the line and the Staties working the line are getting nervous/annoyed (not sure which). Finally I remembered it was the shoes and laughed. I took them off, one officer wanded them and tapped on it with her wand, I sent them through the scanner. We all had a big laugh about it (4-5 officers, me and my wife). Most of these people are just that, people. =)

 

[Deanimator]

Next time you have a serious problem call 911 and see how many lumberjacks and Bering Sea crabbers show up.

Depending upon who and where you are, see how many cops show up.

I've personally witnessed cops turn around and leave when they learned that the perpetrators were White kids in a newly Black neighborhood.

When I moved to the Cleveland area in 1986, cops here refused to respond to multiple calls from a Black woman and her children, trapped in their home by a drunken mob of rock, bottle and fireworks throwing Whites. They only responded after a friend of the family showed up and fired his 12ga. pump shotgun into the mob. They of course arrested the friend and no one in the mob. The friend walked after the 911 tapes of the cops joking about the woman's peril were played in court.

• Police have no legal duty to protect individuals
• Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
• 99% of the time, police have no physical ability to protect individuals.

If you have a "serious problem" RIGHT NOW, you're going to protect yourself, or you're not going to get protected AT ALL.

 

[Tinpig]

Deanimator-
First, I'm not a cop and never have been. Second, I know there are bad cops, just like there are bad everything else.
All I'm saying is, there are some very good ones, too, and they get very little attention. Here's one:

An Angel in Blue
By Brian McGrory
Boston Globe / March 26, 2010

It began amid Monday’s downpour, which ended a weekend of downpours. In Dorchester, 78-year-old Joan McCoy carefully maneuvered her basement steps, stopped in a state of disbelief on the landing, and gazed at more than a foot of water swishing around her basement floor.

McCoy didn’t know what to do. Her heat was out. The rain was pounding against the windows, and the basement was filling fast.

So, in an act of desperation, she picked up the phone and called the cops, asking for Dorchester community patrol officer Thomas Griffiths who once told her to let him know if she ever needed anything.

When Griffiths came to the house she told him about the flooding. There were several ways the story could have ended there. He could have flipped through the phonebook to find plumbers who were charging hundreds to help. He could have dialed up flooding specialists who already had a backlog of several days. He could have cited union rules, department regulations, the catch-all fear of possible litigation, and made his way for the door.

Here’s what happened instead: Griffiths descended into the cellar. He stepped off the second-to-last step into calf-high water.
He found an old sump pump and, for an hour, in full uniform, he jostled the wires, played around with the motor, and just about willed it into operation.

Sometime Monday night, the pump died from exhaustion and the McCoys woke up to a new flood. When Joan called the station, she was told that Griffiths was on his day off.

Within an an hour he was on her doorstep anyway. This time, he was with Brian Shea, a plumber from Local 12. They were there to get the heat back on.

When he saw the water, Griffiths called another friend at the Home Depot, who brought over a new pump that sucked the cellar dry in an hour. They got the furnace going and were gone — off to several more houses with flooded basements. The charge: nothing. Police at the precinct even pitched in to buy the McCoys a new pump.

This week, Joan McCoy sat at the kitchen table and proclaimed Griffiths to be her “angel.’’ Griffiths shuffled his feet a bit, said, “We knew the circumstances of the family,’’ and mentioned something about it being his job.

Tinpig

 

[Officers'Wife]

We are obviously not communicating. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

When you quote people out of context then expand on the new context it proves a basic dishonesty and contempt for your fellow man.

 

[Kaeto]

Tinpig: That is a man I am proud to see wearing the badge.

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator-
First, I'm not a cop and never have been. Second, I know there are bad cops, just like there are bad everything else.
All I'm saying is, there are some very good ones, too, and they get very little attention. Here's one:

My point is that I have ***ZERO*** expectation of being "protected" as an individual by the police, good, bad or indifferent.

You're as likely to be protected as an individual by the police as you are by a fisherman, a lumberjack or the commissioner of major league baseball.

The worst police department in the world won't protect you as an individual.

The best police department in the world CAN'T protect you as an individual.

I've seen the best and the worst that law enforcement has to offer and I don't entertain the fantasy that EITHER of them is going to protect me when I really need it.

Protect yourself when you really need it or don't get protected AT ALL. Anything else is at best a fantasy, at worst a despicable lie.

 

[Officers'Wife]

The worst police department in the world won't protect you as an individual.

The best police department in the world CAN'T protect you as an individual.

I've seen the best and the worst that law enforcement has to offer and I don't entertain the fantasy that EITHER of them is going to protect me when I really need it.

Protect yourself when you really need it or don't get protected AT ALL. Anything else is at best a fantasy, at worst a despicable lie.

Amen!

My only complaint is your lack of political correctness in the last phrase, the new phrase is 'reasonable deception'. While despicable lie is more accurate the courts have spoken.

 

[Deanimator]

While despicable lie is more accurate the courts have spoken.

The courts have ruled that LEOs may lie (NOT under oath) in the course of an investigation.

Claiming that you don't need a gun because the police will protect YOU as an individual isn't an investigatory technique. It's a psychological operation intended to deceive the gullible into being defenseless victims, waiting for "protection" which almost never comes in time.

 

[Officers'Wife]

The courts have ruled that LEOs may lie (NOT under oath) in the course of an investigation.

The courts have instituted being a liar as part of the job description. There is an old saying about part time liars. You know it as well as I do.

 

[Tinpig]

a despicable lie...

The courts have instituted being a liar as part of the job description.

Enough for me.

Tinpig

 

[TargetTerror]

Depending upon who and where you are, see how many cops show up.

I've personally witnessed cops turn around and leave when they learned that the perpetrators were White kids in a newly Black neighborhood.

When I moved to the Cleveland area in 1986, cops here refused to respond to multiple calls from a Black woman and her children, trapped in their home by a drunken mob of rock, bottle and fireworks throwing Whites. They only responded after a friend of the family showed up and fired his 12ga. pump shotgun into the mob. They of course arrested the friend and no one in the mob. The friend walked after the 911 tapes of the cops joking about the woman's peril were played in court.
Police have no legal duty to protect individuals
Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
99% of the time, police have no physical ability to protect individuals.
If you have a "serious problem" RIGHT NOW, you're going to protect yourself, or you're not going to get protected AT ALL.

Do you have any references for any of that? I DON'T DOUBT YOU AT ALL! Rather, that is one of the best cases/scenarios I have ever read countering the argument that individuals don't need guns because the police will protect you. I would like to be able to use it in the future.